Hair? I have none now.



  • New work computer, busy getting all the stuff I needed installed. Which includes the Win7 sdk. After pulling my hair out for an hour, I discover this.

    Whoever wrote the prerequisite checks should be shot.

    (If you don't want to follow the link, the win7sdk installs a specific version of the vc2010 redistributable. I have a newer version installed (because it's a win8.1 machine). So the SDK installer fails. Only fix is to uninstall the existing 2010 (and pray), install the SDK and then re-update. Fuck.)

    <rant/>



  • So that's why.
    I spent rather a long time getting that going, and never did figure out exactly what I'd done to get it to install.



  • Sounds like standard Microsoft screw-up. They lack the aptitude¹ to get this kind of things right.

    ¹

    If they had anything worth being called package manager with ability to properly declare dependencies, they would not be making these mistakes. I don't think it is the first time they did.



  • @dcon said:

    <rant/>

    Either you intentionally put an empty rant in unclosed rant to put me off, or you can't rant at all.



  • Or his post was mid-rant to end-rant and the start of the rant started before the post?



  • But then it had an empty nested rant and has not yet finished. The tag used doesn't close a previous one, just itself.



  • Mini rant. Either that, or it just ran out of steam. Or I was just lazy and didn't feel like going back to the top and inserting a proper rant. I'm going with the last.


  • mod

    ....how many WTDWTF regulars don't understand basic html tags.... now I'm truly frightened.

    <foo/> is both an opening and closing tag of type foo. It does not close a previously opened tag, for that you want </foo>



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    WTDWTF regulars don't understand basic html tags

    To be fair only one was talking about it closing something that started elsewhere. Others pointed out it didn't contain anything, that is how we got on that subject.


  • mod

    It looked like @dcon also misunderstood tho.



  • I guess you could read the lazy cop out that way, but that isn't how I took it. I figure if going with lazy then a half assed fix is fitting.



  • I think I'm going to type PIN number. <because this tag stuff seems too tedious now.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I think I'm going to type PIN number. <because this tag stuff seems too tedious now.

    Into the ATM machine? <because I don't get the joke.



  • No, I understand if perfectly. It was a mini rant!

    Edit: And lazy


  • :belt_onion:

    @Yamikuronue said:

    ....how many WTDWTF regulars don't understand basic html tags.... now I'm truly frightened.

    <foo/> is both an opening and closing tag of type foo. It does not close a previously opened tag, for that you want </foo>


    ERROR_POST_UNREADABLE_UNMATCHED_END_TAG

    BEEP BOOP



  • The online installer for WinDbg (which is the only component I ever used that is nowadays part of the Windows SDK) in XP times had a similar bug (I don't remember whether it was a VC redistributable or some windows update that was too new, though). Workaround was to download the redistributable version of WinDbg (using the same installer) in a fresh VM that did not have said update installed, and then use that version to install it on the actual machine. Or something like that...


  • :belt_onion:

    Maybe it's a test to see if you are worthy of developing lowlevel Windows stuff?

    Other explanations are welcome of course.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    ....how many WTDWTF regulars don't understand basic html tags.... now I'm truly frightened.

    <foo/> is both an opening and closing tag of type foo. It does not close a previously opened tag, for that you want </foo>

    However, <foo/> may still cause an implicit close tag of type foo to be generated, if foo is a HTML tag that cannot be nested.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    ....how many WTDWTF regulars don't understand basic html tags.... now I'm truly frightened.

    Especially since, if you weren't using a uniquely braindead browser, that was all you could do on Community Server.

    As for the cinderconflict here, foo and rant aren't SVG or MathML, and they aren't on the list of tags with void contents or the list of tags where parts are automatically generated, so they can't be self-closing and don't close any existing ones in progress. Have a nice, cool, refreshing cup of killjoy!



  • @dcon said:

    Whoever wrote the prerequisite checks should be shot.

    (If you don't want to follow the link, the win7sdk installs a specific version of the vc2010 redistributable. I have a newer version installed (because it's a win8.1 machine). So the SDK installer fails. Only fix is to uninstall the existing 2010 (and pray), install the SDK and then re-update. Fuck.)

    It's a valid rant. You'd think that, after all these years, at least Microsoft developers would would be able to manage DLL Hell problems.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TwelveBaud said:

    foo and rant aren't SVG or MathML

    Well duh! So he's using some other SGML application profile.



  • @CoyneTheDup said:

    You'd think that, after all these years, at least Microsoft developers would would be able to manage DLL Hell problems.

    For that they would have to introduce a package manager with dependency and version tracking. However for reasons I don't really understand that idea seems to be completely alien to the world of commercial software. And not just on Windows; all mobile platforms introduced some kind of packages, but none of them¹ has support for dependencies.


    ¹ Ok, none of the major ones. The GNU/Linux-based ones like Maemo had/have proper package managers.


  • :belt_onion:

    Chocolatey is basically doing just that: building a package manager based on NuGet's dependency management and PowerShell's scripting abilities.

    Microsoft itself is going in a different direction though: they're designing a common API on top of other package managers so that you can have an official API for installing packages when the right package providers are activated. Dependency management is still left to those providers though... :rolleyes:



  • Sure, but those things only help packages that opt in and since they are themselves dependencies, many won't. It would have to be integral part of the system to actually help with dll hell.

    Now thinking about it, the updates system does have some dependency tracking, because some updates can only be installed after other updates are. However it probably isn't usable by installers.



  • @JBert said:

    Microsoft itself is going in a different direction though: they're designing a common API on top of other package managers so that you can have an official API for installing packages when the right package providers are activated.

    Fucking architecture astronauts firmly in charge as usual. MS package management looks set soon to be as much of a briar patch as Linux audio support.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @JBert said:

    Dependency management is still left to those providers though...as an exercise to the reader...

    That's the first thing that popped into my head when I started reading that sentence.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Each package could just install its own package manager component. Everything will then “Just Work™”… :facepalm:



  • It's the Windows way. Anything else results in anti-trust litigation.



  • Crap. More installer fun. So my machine was finally happily purring along. And I finally got the upgrade code from IT to move from 8.1 (plain) to 8.1 Enterprise.

    Go to control panel / system. Upgrade. Nope, can't do it. Find out that to upgrade to Enterprise requires installing from media. *twitch*

    Ok, download iso, mount, setup. "Clean or save data files".

    Uhoh. I know that prompt. This is not good. Save files. Install proceeds.

    Now full-on-fuck-twitch starts. Yeah, it's a full OS upgrade. Basically a clean wipe, but leave data files behind. But NOT the ones in %LOCALAPPDATA%. Oh fuck. Of course, since this machine was running smooth, I'd cleaned up the old one. So back to reinstalling every damn program.

    On the plus side, no more crapware. (And the original install problem didn't happen again because that was (almost) the first thing I installed.)



  • <foo/> is not an HTML tag. It's an XML tag. XHTML allows it, but HTML has each tag decide whether they want to autoclose or not.



  • Yeah, I think I've heard of that prompt. 'Save data files' is, basically, my documents.



  • You're whining about your issue with a package created 5.5 years ago, with a documented resolution?


  • Impossible Mission - B

    So it is fine if I create a WTF in my program, document a WTFy resolution, and then leave the WTF as is for an extended period of time?



  • I would not call it fine, but Microsoft apparently does.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Vault_Dweller said:

    So it is fine

    That's up to the court to decide… <since "fine" is a financial penalty



  • @Adrian_Martin said:

    Your whining about your issue with a package created 5.5 years ago, with a documented resolution?

    I'm whining about that now...



  • I'm wine-ing some exes so I can run them on Linux hardware.


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