Why are reddit and 4chan actually talking politics and economics according to random WTDWTF users



  • Sorry for the 4chan screenshot instead of text, that's all I have. But he makes some good points.

    BTW this shit is in the spotlight again because reddit started banning some of its most controversial subreddits, starting with "fatpeoplehate". A lot of people are declaring "the end of reddit" and running to voat.co, which has keeled over from the extra traffic.

    I don't think anything will come out of this in the long run, but internet drama is, as always, interesting to watch from the sidelines.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    Since when did nuking a blatantly offensive subreddit become an SJW cause? Or is SJW now just a catch-all term for 'someone doing something I don't like'?



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Since when did nuking a blatantly offensive subreddit become an SJW cause?

    As someone pointed out: why those subreddits? /r/coons was not banned.
    The reason seems fairly thin.
    In the beginning reddit was a free for all, if you didn't like what someone said, you could gtfo. The only rules was about spam and personal info (as far as I remember).
    That has changed.
    I also enjoy the drama - but I'm annoyed to see that people (and assholes/trolls) have fewer avenues to express themselves.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Since when did nuking a blatantly offensive subreddit become an SJW cause? Or is SJW now just a catch-all term for 'someone doing something I don't like'?

    "Blatantly offensive" is a murky category. I like the good old "nothing illegal" rule much better. Especially on a site like reddit, where you can curate exactly what you want to see in your feed.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Since when did nuking a blatantly offensive subreddit become an SJW cause?

    Because the people getting upset about don't look at the facts.
    So they think it's some SJW admins getting upset on behalf of someone who wasn't actually upset about it, when in reality, it's 5 subreddits which had multiple harassment complaints.
    Same thing that causes the uproar on Reddit anyway - facts :barrier: online whining.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @RaceProUK said:

    Or is SJW now just a catch-all term for 'someone doing something I don't like'?

    "now"? When was it anything else? >.> When you lump together "Burn all men!" with "I think rape is bad", nobody wins from that classification. We already had a word for the former: idiots.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @swayde said:

    As someone pointed out: why those subreddits?

    Culls have to start somewhere, and I guess they got more complaints about those than others? Seems a more logical reason than 'Go Go Gadget SJW!' anyway.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I guess they got more complaints about those than others?

    That's exactly what Reddit said was the reason.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @loopback0 said:

    That's exactly what Reddit said was the reason.

    from a business sense that makes sense..... kinda.

    I don't get the SJW movement, I mean i get that there's a lot of social injustice and that's bad, but do they really think the best way to deal with it is by being so abrasively beligerant? Honestly looking from the outside of all these SJW crusades i have a hard time telling them apart from a mob of bullies...

    :-/

    so yeah. i don't get it. Social justice, yeah that's a good goal, right on. SJW, that i don't get.

    but then i don't get the fascination with 'murican handegg either.



  • @accalia said:

    Social justice, yeah that's a good thing

    No it isn't. At least not in the modern understanding of "everyone is entitled to everything".



  • @swayde said:

    In the beginning reddit was a free for all, if you didn't like what someone said, you could gtfo

    Oh hey, I remember a place on the Internet that was just like that...



  • @accalia said:

    from a business sense that makes sense..... kinda.

    If you run a community of any kind, you need to deal with repeated complaints against individuals or groups. Business or no business, that's how it is.

    @accalia said:

    but do they really think the best way to deal with it is by being so abrasively beligerant?

    They seem to. The stupidest thing about it (IMO) is people who feel the need to get offended on behalf of someone who isn't offended.
    If $groupA are offended by something $personB does - FINE - stand up for them if you want to. If you think $groupA are (or should be) offended by something but they're not - keep your fucking noses out.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    No it isn't.

    yes it is.

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    At least not in the modern understanding of "everyone is entitled to everything".
    that's not Social Justice. that's entitlementism and it's a crock of bullshit.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @loopback0 said:

    If you run a community of any kind, you need to deal with repeated complaints against individuals or groups. Business or no business, that's how it is.

    right, and occasionally you will have to moderate people and groups by removing them from the community, it sucks but it's something that comes up. Presumably the rate of complaints against the banned groups had grown to the point where reddit was stressing its ability to moderate the rest of the system. In that case it would be a fair business decision to drop the group that was generating or recieving the complaints to remove the stress on the system.

    that's of course assuming reddit was acting rationally and that the volume of complaints (which they won't release anyway) was really that high.

    @loopback0 said:

    If $groupA are offended by something $personB does - FINE - stand up for them if you want to. If you think $groupA are (or should be) offended by something but they're not - keep your fucking noses out.

    #QFFT



  • That post is stupid.

    Reddit is "going SJW" because SJW's like to purchase tchotchkes and, uh, somehow Reddit makes money from that even though Reddit doesn't sell tchotchkes?

    All SJWs are people who don't block ads, and all anti-SJWs do block ads? How about, uh, maybe some research to back up that incredibly ridiculous assertion?

    I mean his general point that for-profit businesses are going to cater to customers who provide them more profit is true, but also duh.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    I have never understood Reddit. The signal to noise ratio always seemed way too low for my tastes. I have to say though, I saw something like this coming when they appointed a CEO who was embroiled in a gender discrimination suit...that she ended up losing.



  • @accalia said:

    I don't get the SJW movement, I mean i get that there's a lot of social injustice and that's bad, but do they really think the best way to deal with it is by being so abrasively beligerant?

    It seems to get results. Not all the time, but enough that it has encouraged this sort of behavior.

    @accalia said:

    but then i don't get the fascination with 'murican handegg either.

    BEST SESAME STREET GAG EVER

    Classic Sesame Street - Two hands, two objects (ping pong ball & egg) – 02:24
    — MonsterpieceTheatre



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Reddit is "going SJW" because SJW's like to purchase tchotchkes and, uh, somehow Reddit makes money from that even though Reddit doesn't sell tchotchkes?

    It sells add space. Companies that buy add spaces sell tchotchkes.

    But yeah, it's an interesting, but incomplete argument. It's tempting to attribute a completely rational thought process to a company that does what you consider a "bad thing", and feel all clever you've "seen behind the curtain". In reality, all these decisions are made by people, with their own ideologies and feelings. And the current crop of reddit management is leaning heavily towards the liberal / feminist / SJW spectrum and sensibilities.

    No analysis of "why X did Y" is complete without taking ideologies into consideration.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    All SJWs are people who don't block ads, and all anti-SJWs do block ads? How about, uh, maybe some research to back up that incredibly ridiculous assertion?

    You're not reading very carefully. The theory is that a particular sort of subreddit is driving away a particular sort of user. The ridiculous assertion there is yours.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @cartman82 said:

    the current crop of reddit management is leaning heavily towards the liberal / feminist / SJW spectrum and sensibilities.

    Hardly surprising. By reddit standards, "Maybe we shouldn't burn all the women?" is further toward the liberal/feminist/SJW end of the spectrum than the mean :trolleybus:


  • BINNED

    @cartman82 said:

    It sells add space

    How much space gets added?



  • @cartman82 said:

    It sells add space.

    Not ad space?

    @cartman82 said:

    Companies that buy add spaces sell tchotchkes.

    Well ok, but here's the deal:

    1. Where's the EVIDENCE that SJWs buy more shit off internet ads than, say, Star Wars fans?

    2. Where's the EVIDENCE that Reddit is banning those subreddits to make their ad space more valuable?

    3. Where's the EVIDENCE that SJWs are less likely to block ads?

    There's no meat to the argument. There's no numbers, there's no research, there's no polling. There's no "there" there.

    @cartman82 said:

    And the current crop of reddit management is leaning heavily towards the liberal / feminist / SJW spectrum and sensibilities.

    Because they banned a forum dedicated to taking pictures of fat people and making fun of them, but didn't ban the forum dedicated to posting photos of women's corpses?

    Seriously?

    This... this is really the argument you're making here?

    Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Because Occam's Razor states they're just banning the forums they got the most complaints about.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    I have never understood Reddit. The signal to noise ratio always seemed way too low for my tastes.

    If you set up your subreddits and RSS feeds correctly, it's fantastic.

    That's why I can't take voat.co seriously. They don't let you customize your rss, so you get hundreds and hundreds of posts from boring default subvoats (like "greet the new members" crap). Until they fix this, I'm sticking with reddit. Even if they purge all "politically incorrect" content I enjoy, I'll stay for the memes.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @cartman82 said:

    Even if they purge all "politically incorrect" content I enjoy, I'll stay for the memes.

    I say the same thing about this place.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    Hardly surprising. By reddit standards, "Maybe we shouldn't burn all the women?" is further toward the liberal/feminist/SJW end of the spectrum than the mean

    That's incorrect on so many levels.

    @Jaloopa said:

    How much space gets added?

    @blakeyrat said:

    Not ad space?

    I came for the WTFs. I stayed for the comedic geniuses this community has unearthed from obscurity and thrust into spotlight.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Well ok, but here's the deal:

    1. Where's the EVIDENCE that SJWs buy more shit off internet ads than, say, Star Wars fans?

    2. Where's the EVIDENCE that Reddit is banning those subreddits to make their ad space more valuable?

    3. Where's the EVIDENCE that SJWs are less likely to block ads?

    There's no meat to the argument. There's no numbers, there's no research, there's no polling. There's no "there" there.

    You expect a lot from an amusing shitpost from 4-chan.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Because they banned a forum dedicated to taking pictures of fat people and making fun of them, but didn't ban the forum dedicated to posting photos of women's corpses?

    Seriously?

    Err no? Because they have publicly declared they intend to "put a stop to harassment" and "make reddit a safe place". Or something to that effect. Also because their new CEO is a controversial feminist, on a public crusade against "male dominated tech industry" blah blah blah.

    You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if any of this is news or controversial to you.


  • BINNED

    @cartman82 said:

    Also because their new CEO is a controversial feminist, on a public crusade against "male dominated tech industry" blah blah blah

    Whenever I hear someone criticising someone else for being a "controversial feminist" or blaming woes on SJWs, I'm instantly that little bit more skeptical of everything that person has to say...



  • @Jaloopa said:

    Whenever I hear someone criticising someone else for being a "controversial feminist" or blaming woes on SJWs, I'm instantly that little bit more skeptical of everything that person has to say...

    Court that decided she's full of shit disagrees with you and agrees with me.


  • BINNED

    They disagree that my bullshit meter has been activated? I didn't say that you were full of shit, just that you're using (and have in the past - ISTR you're invested in Gamergate too) language that is often correlated with people who are full of shit.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @cartman82 said:

    If you set up your subreddits and RSS feeds correctly, it's fantastic.

    That's the problem with Reddit. It requires too much fiddling. I assume you were a fairly early adopter? You have had a lot of time to fiddle with the dials and get everything tuned right. It has been very incremental for you. A little here, a little there, as things changed and progressed.

    But for someone like me, the barrier to entry is high. Not in signing up, that part is easy. It would just take too much work for me to filter out all of the bullshit noise before I could see all of the good content that is supposedly underneath.

    Reddit has become too big and is (currently) too unregulated for me to find what might interest me. A lot of the categories are filled, or named by, obscure in-jokes. Going in to any category just greets me with tons of noise. Yeah, I could probably spend the time doing what you say and make it better...but I won't. A site has seconds to wow me. I have never got that from Reddit.



  • @Jaloopa said:

    language that is often correlated with people who are full of shit.

    Too many false positives. I assume everyone is full of shit.



  • @cartman82 said:

    I came for the WTFs. I stayed for the comedic geniuses this community has unearthed from obscurity and thrust into spotlight.

    Have you seen that joke where someone says the word "fuck" and people reply as if they literally meant sexual intercourse? It's hilarious. If you missed it, don't worry, it's posted about 73 times a day by the comic geniuses here.

    @cartman82 said:

    You expect a lot from an amusing shitpost from 4-chan.

    You're the one sharing it. And in General, not in Side Bar WTF or Funny Stuff.

    @cartman82 said:

    Because they have publicly declared they intend to "put a stop to harassment" and "make reddit a safe place". Or something to that effect.

    Ok?

    And China's constitution guarantees the right to free speech.

    It's just balloon juice until something happens.

    @cartman82 said:

    Also because their new CEO is a controversial feminist, on a public crusade against "male dominated tech industry" blah blah blah.

    Oh noes. Circle the wagons.

    (Psst! I hear there's another even huger tech company whose CEO is one of those homosexuals!!!)

    Diversity sucks! If their CEO isn't a straight white male with opinions very complementary to mine, well, fuck that company!

    @cartman82 said:

    You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if any of this is news or controversial to you.

    I've used Reddit approximately zero times.

    But I think this thread, and your mindset, is fucking ridiculous. If only because it's Reddit's servers, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them.

    @cartman82 said:

    Court that decided she's full of shit disagrees with you and agrees with me.

    She was sued for being feminist? Is that criminal or civil court nowadays?



  • @Jaloopa said:

    They disagree that my bullshit meter has been activated? I didn't say that you were full of shit, just that you're using (and have in the past - ISTR you're invested in Gamergate too) language that is often correlated with people who are full of shit.

    Err no. I don't care about gamergate. I just intensely dislike ideologies. And ideology most strongly on the rise right now is this new strong feminism / social justice extremism that can losely be grouped under the term "SJW".

    Once this ideology vanes and something new comes along, I'll move on to harping on that, trust me.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    is SJW now just a catch-all term for 'someone doing something I don't like'?

    Pretty much. It's the right-wing counterpart of "MRA man-baby".



  • @cartman82 said:

    I stayed for the comedic geniuses this community has unearthed from obscurity and thrust into spotlight.

    you are fucking welcome.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    That's the problem with Reddit. It requires too much fiddling. I assume you were a fairly early adopter? You have had a lot of time to fiddle with the dials and get everything tuned right. It has been very incremental for you. A little here, a little there, as things changed and progressed.

    But for someone like me, the barrier to entry is high. Not in signing up, that part is easy. It would just take too much work for me to filter out all of the bullshit noise before I could see all of the good content that is supposedly underneath.

    Reddit has become too big and is (currently) too unregulated for me to find what might interest me. A lot of the categories are filled, or named by, obscure in-jokes. Going in to any category just greets me with tons of noise. Yeah, I could probably spend the time doing what you say and make it better...but I won't. A site has seconds to wow me. I have never got that from Reddit.

    Not an early adopter. I just noticed one day that a lot of good links come from reddit. So I created an account and spent an hour or two going through the list of most popular subreddits and picking what I like. Then I grabbed my customized RSS link, and never went to the front page again.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @cartman82 said:

    So I created an account and spent an hour or two going through the list of most popular subreddits and picking what I like.

    That is exactly where Reddit loses me.

    At least here I could start an account and immediately start disliking blakeyrat.



  • @cartman82 said:

    I just noticed one day that a lot of good links come from reddit.

    You young'uns. Back in my day, good links came from SomethingAwful and Fark. We didn't have none of this new-fangled 4chan or Reddit to muddy the waters.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    At least here I could start an account and immediately start disliking blakeyrat.

    You don't even need an account, you can dislike me just based on what's visible to the public.



  • someone post the meme-shit-waterfall meme before it's too late



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Have you seen that joke where someone says the word "fuck" and people reply as if they literally meant sexual intercourse?

    That's so confusing. Always trips me up when I speak with the ladies.

    @blakeyrat said:

    I've used Reddit approximately zero times.

    I'm not gonna be your research monkey for you and run around, assembling evidence and crap. That trolling level is for internet amateurs. If you're interested, do your own research.

    @blakeyrat said:

    She was sued for being feminist? Is that criminal or civil court nowadays?

    See above.



  • @accalia said:

    @Maciejasjmj said:
    At least not in the modern understanding of "everyone is entitled to everything".
    that's not Social Justice. that's entitlementism and it's a crock of bullshit.

    There's no good single definition of social justice. It can mean many different and sometimes contradictory things (living wage, men should stop oppressing women, women doing stuff without men, women shouldn't exclude women who have penises, etc) to different people.

    The SJWs are people who try to act on their outrage over infractions of their definition of social justice by at least being angry on the internet and demanding that people go along with their demands for whatever.



  • @cartman82 said:

    I'm not gonna be your research monkey for you and run around, assembling evidence and crap.

    Oh well you've convinced me.

    @cartman82 said:

    See above.

    Above what? You dropped that little turd in here with zero explanation.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Oh well you've convinced me.

    There you go, and I didn't even have to find one peer reviewed study that a commentary from the OP is 100% correct in every respect.

    That was easier than I thought.


  • :belt_onion:

    @RaceProUK said:

    Since when did nuking a blatantly offensive subreddit become an SJW cause? Or is SJW now just a catch-all term for 'someone doing something I don't like'?

    yes. and it has been for a while now. Nothing discredits an opinion to me now more than seeing "SJW" included somewhere in it.

    After reading responses i see i was :hanzo:ed over nine thousand times.


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @boomzilla said:

    There's no good single definition of social justice.

    -sigh- too true.

    @boomzilla said:

    living wage

    that's something everyone should have access too, i consider it a very bad thing that minimum wage cannot support a person living alone in many municipalities, forcing them to either get roomates (which is a good idea, but shouldn't be required) or work multiple jobs.

    How to fix that? NFC, but if you've got constructive ideas i'd love to hear it.

    @boomzilla said:

    men should stop oppressing women,

    yes, and for that matter other men. and women too. oppression happens all over the place and isn't a good thing. Again, NFC how to fix that...

    @boomzilla said:

    women doing stuff without men
    that one's a hard one to parse but if you mean "women shouldn't be excluded from doing something because they are women" then yeah that's also an injustice..... still NFC how to fix that.

    @boomzilla said:

    women shouldn't exclude women who have penises
    and visa versa (Men shouldn't exclude men who have vaginas), and while we're at it we should sort out intersex and agendered individuals.... that one's a whole ball of wax that i don't even know where to start pushing to get that one fixed.

    Basically as far as i can see these Social Justice issues have their roots buried deep in our society and culture, to the point that we can't fix them by cutting off the head, we need to understand them, find the roots and carefully remove the roots. Anything less than that would be a patch job at best and the injustice will either rip the patch off or sprout anew somewhere else.

    Of course that's really hard work and it's much easier just to shout and rant on the internet.... -_-



  • @accalia said:

    i consider it a very bad thing that minimum wage cannot support a person living alone in many municipalities

    The real minimum wage is $0. I, too, think it would be awesome if everyone could have nice lives.

    @accalia said:

    that one's a hard one to parse but if you mean "women shouldn't be excluded from doing something because they are women" then yeah that's also an injustice.

    In particular I was thinking of a conference in the last year or so that was organized for a definition of women that didn't include people with penises. There was at least one college that canceled the Vagina Monologs because it was too exclusionary. I'm sure there are more examples.

    @accalia said:

    Basically as far as i can see these Social Justice issues have their roots buried deep in our society and culture,

    Also, people have different ideas about what they want to do and some are more interested in telling others why the others should be doing something different. A big part of this is the philosophy that the personal is the political. It's absolutely toxic. That's obviously not to say that everything is great and nothing should change, but the culture of outrage has gone way to far at this point.

    @accalia said:

    we need to understand them, find the roots and carefully remove the roots.

    But sometimes there are also good reasons for the things that exist, so instead we need to figure out how to get along together instead of imposing our will on other people.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @accalia said:

    i consider it a very bad thing that minimum wage cannot support a person living alone in many municipalities, forcing them to either get roomates (which is a good idea, but shouldn't be required) or work multiple jobs.

    Horseshit. Now a minimum wage should support people living by themselves in whatever municipality they wish? I don't think so.

    People also should not work too much? These goal posts are getting moved farther and farther all the time. Let's just put them where @flabdablet wants them and give everyone a salary for being alive. :-P


  • The Cold Doesn't Bother Us Anyway

    @Polygeekery said:

    Now a minimum wage should support people living by themselves in whatever municipality they wish?

    that, i did not say. however, i do think that the minimum paying job in an area should be high enough pay to support a single person libing in that area.

    it shouldn't be enough to support them in a penthouse apartment, but it should be enough to support, say a small studio apartment (~150-200sqft)

    will that happen? i doubt it. Should it happen? yeah, in a perfect world. is our world even close to that? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! no.

    @Polygeekery said:

    People also should not work too much?

    they shouldn't have to work 80+ hours a week in order to earn enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head, no. should they get living wage for 0 hours work? well in the land of unicorns and "rainbows" sure, but this is the real world so probably not..



  • @cartman82 said:

    I just intensely dislike ideologies. And ideology most strongly on the rise right now is this new strong feminism / social justice extremism that can losely be grouped under the term "SJW".

    Bored people posting dumb shit on the internet is not an "ideology on the rise". The best way to keep them from effecting any measurable change is to let them vent all that energy on the net. If you gave ISIS members access to the internet, you'd get rid of them in a week.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @accalia said:

    they shouldn't have to work 80+ hours a week in order to earn enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head, no.

    Then why do people work 80+ hour weeks? I did it for many years, while earning many multiples of what would be considered a living wage. I did it to excel. I did it to get the job done, because I took pride in my work. I did it because I was passionate.

    We are entitled to 3 things: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Nothing says we are guaranteed happiness.

    Ever heard of Slab City? A person can easily live there while earning virtually no money at all.

    The market works, we really should just leave it alone. When we start instituting a living wage, where do we draw the line? A living wage in the Hollywood Hills is a hell of a lot different than that in the valley. A living wage in Manhattan is a lot different than in New Jersey. The same goes for virtually any location.


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