Elder Scrolls Online is now in Java



  • Tamriel Unlimited indeed.

    EDIT: Just the program that installs the launcher is in Java. The launcher itself is not?

    THIS WAS A GOOD TECHNICAL DECISION.

    EDIT: Apparently it just uses a portable Java VM and doesn't actually install it? THIS IS A LESS BAD TECHNICAL DECISION BUT STILL A BAD ONE,



  • uh...what? Oh, edit just showed up and it's some complaint about something using java.



  • Yeah umm...I don't think that's how bootstrapping is supposed to work.



  • Why do they make installers for launchers? The launcher should be what installs/updates/launches the game, not something that needs a separate installer itself.



  • So it downloads a self-extractor, which extracts to a portable Java VM + a Java app, which does nothing but:

    1. give me the Windows Firewall "add exception?" dialog for the Java VM (complete with Java logo and no mention at all of Zenimax or Elder Scrolls Online). AFAICT it doesn't actually connect to any servers.

    2. ask my language

    3. show 3 fullscreen(!) splash screens, despite no other part of the install process being full-screen

    4. install the Zenimax launcher, which is a native Windows app

    WTF.

    I'm less angry now that I realize the JavaVM was transitory and the firewall exception I added for it is a non-issue.



  • While it may be possible to include a not-quite-full-blown JVM (I'm seeing ~150mb on my machine for Java 8 x64), that's a TON of temporarily wasted disk space/bandwidth just to do what I assume is CreateProcess() some prereq installers like Visual C++ Runtime, DirectX Runtime etc.

    Even then, the developers had to use the fucking Java version of CreateProcess which is like eating a hot plate of shit on toast.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Kian said:

    Why do they make installers for launchers?

    I think the real question is why don't make installers for installers for launcher.



  • But don't you see! Now they don't need an entirely different post-self-extractor-but-pre-launcher program for Macs! IMAGINE THE LABOR SAVINGS!!!!!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    ask my language

    Why would it? You managed to use it, so it correctly guessed you speak English.



  • Coincidentally, "Elder Scrolls Online Installer" in Hungarian means, "happy sex German party woman", so you see they have to ask to be sure.



  • Something something...just create a dmg...something something...no code required...



  • But what happens when people don't drag the Cyrodiil Engine Framework into their Frameworks folder, or fail to worship Lord Cluttermonkey, Keeper of the Post-Install Script?

    On Linux, just create a .deb and a .rpm and fuck Arch with a rusty spork. And hope that either future updates don't break you or users don't uninstall you to get future updates.

    Or, you could take the smart approach and make a Mono-compatible .NET app, which runs everywhere (.NET 3.5 or below if you desperately need Vista support) and can detect, download, and install dependencies without lugging an expensive JVM around, since .NET is built into Windows, Mono is part of the default Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora desktop installs, and most Mac gamers are used to ciderized apps by now.



  • Or use Steam? Steam can run install scripts, you know.



  • Hey, we've seen what Steam does if it isn't where it thinks it should be...



  • The best part happened when I recently installed it from Steam. Steam then proceeded to download 50 GB of stuff.

    Which left me with 100 GB on my SSD.

    I then started the launcher - it began patching, looked like it would take some time, so I left it to its own devices and went shopping.

    Came back later - and noticed that Windows complained about the drive running out of space. Weird. But it was right - only 10 GB left.

    Yeah. The launcher had ignored the Steam files, downloaded another 90 GB of stuff and shoved that into a completely different folder.



  • Ah but you can't use Steam because ESO still has that bug where Steam accounts are on a separate server from Zenimax-created accounts.



  • Wait, they have an MMO but also another MMO with the same name and publisher that doesn't use the same servers?



  • Yeah, but you have to wait forever for a correctly-platformed depot to appear, even if the game runs absolutely fine in Wine or Cider, unless you run Steam in Wine or Cider too (which is how I ended up with /media/twelvebaud/games/Steam/SteamApps/common/C\:/Program\ Files\ (x86)/Steam/SteamApps/common/command\ and\ conquer\ 4\ tiberian\ twilight/Data/Data)



  • It's like UO. There's the Origin Worlds OnlineZenimax-exclusive shard and the AOLSteam-exclusive shard. Only this time, there are no other shards.



  • From its Steam page:

    Elder Scrolls Online account required to play.

    The purchase of a Tamriel Unlimited or Tamriel Unlimited Imperial Edition game cannot be combined with any existing Elder Scrolls Online account and has to be accessed separately through the Steam client.

    So to download it from Steam, I need to buy its online currency, either $60 or $80 worth. Once I do that, I get a new account, completely separate from my existing one, and the two can't be combined in any way.

    "But," you say, "it's free-to-play now... why can't you just download it from Steam and use your existing Zenimax account?" A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

    (I shouldn't say "different server," it's probably not a different server. But there's no way to get the bytes from Steam without making a brand new account that can't in any way be combined with your existing account.)



  • The game's credits cut-off its own copyright symbol.

    Also, despite the Xbox One version now being live, the PC VERSION STILL HAS NO CONTROLLER SUPPORT THIS GAME IS SO AMAZINGLY INCOMPETENT!



  • A program to extract and run a VM with a program to download and install the program that downloads and runs the program you want? Makes sense.



  • If you skip the tutorial, you don't get a bow. The cheapest bow costs 600 bucks.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    f you skip the tutorial, you don't get a bow. The cheapest bow costs 600 bucks.

    How expensive is that? Also, aren't you the person who previously said going full archer isn't viable? Are you going to tilt at windmills or run a hybrid-class character (i.e., not a pure archer).



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Also, despite the Xbox One version now being live, the PC VERSION STILL HAS NO CONTROLLER SUPPORT THIS GAME IS SO AMAZINGLY INCOMPETENT!

    I have some sympathy when you complain about having to use git because you really didn't choose it. But this is pure schadenfreude.



  • It's like 25 quests worth of gold, most of those quests you can't complete without a weapon.

    I googled it up and someone pointed out that you have the crafting recipe for a level 1 bow for free, so you can just find some logs and craft one, so I did that.

    @FrostCat said:

    Also, aren't you the person who previously said going full archer isn't viable? Are you going to tilt at windmills or run a hybrid-class character (i.e., not a pure archer).

    I dunno yet; I'm just making "my Elder Scrolls character" who is an archer.

    @boomzilla said:

    I have some sympathy when you complain about having to use git because you really didn't choose it. But this is pure schadenfreude.

    Yeah; it's one of those "I spent a lot of money on this stinker so I feel compelled to get my money's worth" combined with, "wow I'm bored, what can I play that won't hurt my left hand". You can control (most) MMOs with just the mouse and number keys-- ESO requires hitting Alt a lot though.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    It's like 25 quests worth of gold, most of those quests you can't complete without a weapon.

    Ok--so "at least moderately troublesome", which is kind of what I thought.


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