WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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This is what I've been saying. All I get in response is "BUT SURFACE RT CANT UPDATE TO 10 SO WINDOWS RT IS ORPHANED!!!"... no, it's just renamed. It's part of Windows 10. Devices being orphaned != an OS being orphaned.
No, what you're getting is no Windows RT is getting updated so that fork of the OS is being orphaned. It doesn't matter how much of the code gets reused if the OS path is a dead end. Stop being so obtuse.
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I didn't want web search results along with local stuff, so under
Local Group Policy, Administrative Templates > Window Components > SearchI set "Don't search the web or display web results in Search" to Enabled (doublesingle negatives FTW).I didn't work. Web results still appeared.
But today I updated the VM to build 10130. Here's what happens now.
The hard to read text says "Sorry, but your company policy prevents me from working".
If I type some text:
Windows 10 does a lot of things right, but it needs to get a lot of things fixed too.
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Windows Feedback requires me to sign in with a Microsoft account. That's fine.
But the username field is read-only with value "someone@example.com".
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*is starting to wonder why she agreed to the free update*
Other than it being free, that is.
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*knows why he hasn't yet*
I'll probably upgrade at some point, but I don't want to agree to something that may be interpreted as a commitment to upgrade ASAP at some point in the future. Especially while I haven't seen buttons pointing to small print yet.
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So I was able to (partially) figure out why I wasn't getting the notification and fix it. Turns out that in addition to the KB303... update that I had, there was another update (KB295...) that wasn't showing up anywhere in my Windows Update.
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Right != obtuse.
Moron.
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This is acute argument
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My argument has been made. I'm not the one who thinks that any SoC can easily be updated with a new kernel, and that the failure to do so means you have a different fork of the code.
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Redesign things every few years so it looks
shinyflat and rectangular.Cue the Rounded Corners Revolution in 3... 2... (they're so much more human)
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My argument has been made. I'm not the one who thinks that any SoC can easily be updated with a new kernel, and that the failure to do so means you have a different fork of the code.
- Both Windows RT and Windows 10 Mobile can target the ARMv7 architecture.
- As I understand, Windows 8 Phone and Windows RT contained the same kernel, but the drivers/UI/etc. on top were different.
- As I understand, the resource requirements for Windows 10 Mobile do not preclude, per-se, all Windows RT devices from being able to receive Windows 10 Mobile
- No device currently using Windows RT is getting Windows 10 Mobile.
You said:
Windows RT is just getting a new name.
If that were true, a full wipe and update would be possible on Windows RT devices. Clearly something prevents the device from being upgraded. I don't know what that is. Unless you've got a connection at Microsoft you haven't yet quoted directly, you don't know what that is either. But, given the available evidence, Windows 10 Mobile is more likely to be an update to Windows 8 Phone. Both Windows 8 Phone and Windows RT probably shared a lot of code since it looks like they shared a kernel, but Windows 10 Mobile is not an upgrade to Windows RT. If it were, Windows RT devices would be able to upgrade if their specs were good enough to run the OS.
Windows RT HAS NO UPGRADE PATH TO WINDOWS 10 MOBILE. Microsoft said this. It will get some features, but it will never be on Windows 10 Mobile. They did not say it was because the devices were incapable of supporting it due to SOC incompatibility. The CPU architecture targeted is the same (ARMv7) so it's not an SOC incompatibility unless the drivers for Kernel 6.2 are incompatible with Kernel 6.3 - which would be strange given how MS numbers their Kernel versions (since sub-numberings usually indicate general compatibility unless a bug is fixed which breaks a driver).
I still don't understand how the end of a build path because the build is not possible with the current source is not an orphaning of the build path.
Unless all Windows RT ARMv7 chipsets aren't actually ARMv7 compatible, your SOC argument sounds really uninformed.
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I'll continue considering you a moron, because you still think that hardware is software and that you should always be supported. If Microsoft really wanted to, there would be an upgrade path from Windows 95 to Windows 10, despite them being different platforms and codebases. Sharing a codebase and having an upgrade path are completely unrelated.
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I'll continue considering you a moron, because you still think that hardware is software and that you should always be supported. If Microsoft really wanted to, there would be an upgrade path from Windows 95 to Windows 10, despite them being different platforms and codebases. Sharing a codebase and having an upgrade path are completely unrelated.
? There is an upgrade path from 95 to 10 (if the hardware can support it) - it's called reformat and install. Yet that isn't an option for any Windows RT device to move to Windows 10 Mobile despite targeting the same SOC architecture (ARMv7) and, in some cases, having the general minimum CPU/GPU/RAM to run the OS.There's been no indication from Microsoft that there is a resources issue preventing Windows RT devices from being upgraded to Windows 10 Mobile. If there was, they could just come out and say so. Since there's not as far as I can tell, there's something else going on. I don't know what that is. Clearly you don't, either.
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Okay, perhaps I'm really misinformed here, but can you wipe a Windows RT device and install Android? I thought that not being able to do that is what makes something SoC. I'm not saying Win10 or Win8 were incompatible with ARM, I'm saying that they're bound to closely to the system to do a wipe and install at the level they'd need to.
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Okay, perhaps I'm really misinformed here, but can you wipe a Windows RT device and install Android? I thought that not being able to do that is what makes something SoC. I'm not saying Win10 or Win8 were incompatible with ARM, I'm saying that they're bound to closely to the system to do a wipe and install at the level they'd need to.
If the UEFI on the devices was more permissive you could; but it's a lockdown problem, not a technical infeasibility.
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If it's jailbroken, yes you can install Android. However, there is no publicly-known jailbreak for Windows 8.1 devices, there was one for Windows 8.0 but MS fixed it.
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If the UEFI on the devices was more permissive you could; but it's a lockdown problem, not a technical infeasibility.
Right, so it's a UEFI lockdown, which has nothing to do with Windows code forks
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If the UEFI on the devices was more permissive you could; but it's a lockdown problem, not a technical infeasibility.
I wonder if the UEFI lock is the underlying culprit behind the lack of an upgrade path for Windows RT devices...
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@rad131304 said:
If the UEFI on the devices was more permissive you could; but it's a lockdown problem, not a technical infeasibility.
Right, so it's a UEFI lockdown, which has nothing to do with Windows code forksMaybe? As I understand UEFI lockdown, (note: not an expert) it's mostly about public/private signing of packages.
edit: i.e. UEFI holds the public key of valid signers - the hardware equivalent of cert pinning in web browsing.
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Right. Which has sod all to do with the Windows source code.
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Right. Which has sod all to do with the Windows source code.
I think we're saying the same thing, I'm not sure.
Given how I understand UEFI lockdown, I'm not sure the lockdown itself prevents the upgrade since Microsoft or whomever holds the keys could produce or sign a valid build, and then it could be installed. Given that Windows 10 Mobile looks like it should be compatible with some Windows RT hardware, all I can tell at this point is that Microsoft just doesn't care enough about the devices Windows RT was installed on to find a way to get Windows 10 Mobile on to them.
Note (everything below is pure supposition based on the current state of affairs; I have no sources or knowledge of anything at MS that would make anything below fact):
I think there's some other technical issue - which I think is that Windows 10 Mobile is closer to Windows 8 Phone than Windows RT - meaning an upgrade is really complex since apps for Windows RT aren't necessarily compatible with Windows 8 Phone. None of this means that the hardware wouldn't support the software, but it means that a clean install might be the only upgrade path, and Microsoft hasn't shown a desire to let the ARM OS out into the wild for just anyone to install.
This is why I keep saying Windows RT is being orphaned. It's not because the code or kernel doesn't live on in another product. It's because the evolution of that specific branch of the OS as a binary is a dead end. It goes no further. I get that the code is being reused in Windows 10 Mobile.
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all I can tell at this point is that Microsoft just doesn't care enough about the devices Windows RT was installed on to find a way to get Windows 10 Mobile on to them.
This is the most likely scenario. Windows RT was a huge marketing failure, which is terrible because it's actually a decent tablet if you can get one cheap.
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@rad131304 said:
all I can tell at this point is that Microsoft just doesn't care enough about the devices Windows RT was installed on to find a way to get Windows 10 Mobile on to them.
This is the most likely scenario. Windows RT was a huge marketing failure, which is terrible because it's actually a decent tablet if you can get one cheap.
Agreed. Personally, I would appreciate it if Microsoft provided "clean wipe and upgrade", but I'm indifferent to the cause. I like my Surface, I'm disappointed that it won't get Windows 10, I get that it would piss a lot of owners off to have "wipe and install" as the only option, but it would at least be a concession to those owners for those who really wanted Windows 10.
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I'm disappointed too, but the reality is there are like 500 of us Windows RT users worldwide. Microsoft isn't going to spend time and money testing and validating Windows 10 on that hardware because they don't see any ROI on the process.
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I'm disappointed too, but the reality is there are like 500 of us Windows RT users worldwide. Microsoft isn't going to spend time and money testing and validating Windows 10 on that hardware because they don't see any ROI on the process.
I don't exactly know how they plan to distribute their Raspberry Pi build, but unlocking the UEFI on the hardware would be a nice concession. At some point somebody might be able to figure out how to hack that build for a clean install.
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Windows 10 for the Raspberry Pi isn't exactly Windows 10. I don't think the details are fully-known yet, but from reading over on the Pi forums I think it's some kind of super-stripped-down Server Core-type OS and isn't what everyone's expecting it to be.
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I'm disappointed too, but the reality is there are like 500 of us Windows RT users worldwide. Microsoft isn't going to spend time and money testing and validating Windows 10 on that hardware because they don't see any ROI on the process.
And I kind of understand that position; though it seems to me like the quasi-upgrade they're planning to offer would be far more manpower intensive.
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Windows 10 for the Raspberry Pi isn't exactly Windows 10. I don't think the details are fully-known yet, but from reading over on the Pi forums I think it's some kind of super-stripped-down Server Core-type OS and isn't what everyone's expecting it to be.
Microsoft has tightly controlled all of their ARM builds, so that wouldn't surprise me. Though I've not followed the Pi build at all and just knew they planned to do one.
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You can always opt to cancel. If you go to ControlPanel->WindowsUpdates, there's a "Learn More" link that has a whole bunch of Q&A. One of the items is how to cancel.
The annoying thing is I have one more click when I manually run updates.
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$35 here for unlimited data, minutes, and texts.
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The only thing you've committed to is a 3 GB download of the OS setup files.
It's not going to upgrade your OS behind your back.
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@boomzilla said:
Haven't run updates in a few months at least
We'll see you in a year then ;)ZOMG. I forgot how much I hate Win8. Why the fuck does everything want to go fullscreen?
Ooohh....I think I found the "old style" updates window. And it actually works instead of sitting there giving me a spinner.
Looks like I last ran updates on March 1st.
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Metro Windows Update sucks salty fetid donkey balls; always stick to the proper one
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I just searched for updates and that's what I got. Because we all know the Win8 start page is OK as long as you search.
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Metro Windows Update sucks salty fetid donkey balls; always stick to the proper one
Guess what? In Win10, Control Panel's gradually being replaced with a windowed-Metro app.
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Now this is all I'm seeing.
Apparently Windows has forgotten how to download stuff.
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I just searched for updates and that's what I got.
Right-click on the Start button and choose Control Panel from the popup.
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windowed-Metro app
As long as it's not full screen nonsense I probably won't want to murder anyone.
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Apparently Windows has forgotten how to download stuff.
Oh, I get that; it sorts itself out eventually. It tends to be larger updates that do it.
@FrostCat said:In Win10, Control Panel's gradually being replaced with a windowed-Metro app.
If it's at least half-decent, fair enough.
If it's like the Win8 version,
In a row like that, it looks like a desk has collided with all the rest, forcing them all to headdesk
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Apparently Windows has forgotten how to download stuff.
did you have auto updates on? It probably has already downloaded them while you were taking screnshots. I've seen that happen. Then the update fails, because they were already applied in the background, so you reboot and there's no updates to apply because it got them during the reboot.
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A good one, though.
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Oh, I get that; it sorts itself out eventually. It tends to be larger updates that do it.
I stopped it and have restarted it. I'm going to walk away for a while...
Right-click on the Start button and choose Control Panel from the popup.
Woo...discoverability. Thank you.
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As long as it's not full screen nonsense I probably won't want to murder anyone.
I don't know why people have such a bee in their bonnet, except for the part where all Metro apps I've seen waste a lot of space in fullscreen.
Fullscreen per se seems to be gone in 10 unless you turn on tablet mode? If you double-click the title bar of the settings app, it just goes maximized.
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To be fair though, have you right clicked Win7's? You get nothing useful.
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If it's at least half-decent, fair enough.
It's basically the Win8 app, windowed. They are, as I said, gradually migrating functionality out of Control Panel, because it's silly to have half of it there and half of it in "Settings". If you wanna see, you should be able to find screenies.
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Woo...discoverability. Thank you.
In all this time you never tried right-clicking?
To be fair, I don't remember if I discovered it myself or read about it somewhere. You could do it even in 8.
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I saw in the videos posted in the OP; they may be migrating features, but it's still a weird-ass hybrid
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I stopped it and have restarted it.
Generally, don't bother doing that. When racepro said it sorts itself out, zsxie meant it.
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did you have auto updates on?
Yes. But looking at the settings, it claims it will do that at 3AM (03:00 metric).
It probably has already downloaded them while you were taking screnshots.
I had Task Manager up and there definitely wasn't enough network activity for that to have happened. It says it needs to D/L about 1.2GB.
Ugh...I'd also forgotten how ugly this flat look is.
I don't know why people have such a bee in their bonnet, except for the part where all Metro apps I've seen waste a lot of space in fullscreen.
I don't run anything maximized both ways. That just makes stuff difficult to read or wastes a lot of space. The close button in the corner goes away until I put the mouse at the top of the screen. It was a PITA to drag it over to the other monitor so I could be doing stuff here in my browser. It's horrible.
