Windows to support SSH



  • According to the Microsoft PowerShell blog, Microsoft is going to not only support SSH, but contribute to the OpenSSH community.

    Edit: And before someone mentions it, OpenSSL is the one with all the security holes not OpenSSH.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    3rd time lucky...?



  • Within the course of less than 10 years, Microsoft has gone from "absorb all standards, tweak them so they're incompatible, and patent them" to "making more of a contribution to open source than the FSF ever has".



  • @powerlord said:

    According to the Microsoft PowerShell blog, Microsoft is going to not only support SSH, but contribute to the OpenSSH community.

    Good; they maybe they'll implement it for VS's Git client soon and then I can throw away all the shitty Git clients.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Within the course of less than 10 years, Microsoft has gone from "absorb all standards, tweak them so they're incompatible, and patent them"

    Don't believe everything you read in Slashdot.

    Remember that Microsoft always gets the blame, even when the "guilty" party is the W3C "sure, go ahead and implement more scripting languages other than just JavaScript!" or Adobe "PDF is an open standard! Unless you're Microsoft, then it's not."



  • "we have an Open XML document format"

    "no, it's not open or xml or opendocument."



  • @ben_lubar said:

    "no, it's not open or xml or opendocument."

    It's definitely XML. The other two, eh.

    But what you're missing is that Microsoft can't adopt ODF because it supports like 1/3rd of what Excel supports. Hell, at the time this who bruhaha started, ODF didn't even have SPREADSHEET FORMULAS defined.



  • Meh! Call me maybe when it's a server they're talking about.


  • SockDev

    A popular request the PowerShell team has received is to use Secure Shell protocol and Shell session (aka SSH) to interoperate between Windows and Linux – both Linux connecting to and managing Windows via SSH and, vice versa, Windows connecting to and managing Linux via SSH. Thus, the combination of PowerShell and SSH will deliver a robust and secure solution to automate and to remotely manage Linux and Windows systems.

    Certainly sounds like they'll be adding it to the server OS



  • Reads like both ways to me - client and server.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    But what you're missing is that Microsoft can't adopt ODF because it supports like 1/3rd of what Excel supports. Hell, at the time this who bruhaha started, ODF didn't even have SPREADSHEET FORMULAS defined.

    And OOXML simply said "do as Excel does" in many places when it came to formulas -- which is utterly improper behavior for an international standard. (Imagine the uproar if the C++ standard said to implement feature X "as GCC does it" -- one of the points of having a standard is that it's supposed to stand alone from implementations.) Furthermore, the OOXML standard did not initially provide a full definition of formulas either, and continued to not do so until three months after the first drafts of the OASIS OpenFormula specification were published.

    Besides, had Office simply kept its own XML-based formats to itself instead of trying to shove them down the throat of ISO, we would not have had a single complaint about it. Instead, Microsoft fast-tracked half-baked crap through the ISO standards process, leading to what we now know as OOXML: a duplicative, nigh-unimplemented (apparently Office 2013 has finally started supporting it fully), nearly-useless white elephant. Compare that to ODF, which already has a full multi-vendor infrastructure surrounding it (including a fair degree of support from Office).

    Also, defining all the various mathematical, financial, etal functions is far harder than it looks -- there are many subtle behaviors at play here, and also the OpenFormula developers took pains to not write bugs into the spec (like the infamous issue where Excel stubbornly believes 1900 is a leap year).

    Furthermore: ODF supports the ability to capture formulas in multiple formula languages (in ODF, every formula carries an ID with it that says what formula language it's in).

    (As an aside: Offfice 2013 supports ODF1.2, and OpenFormula with it.



  • As to the OP: fina-freakin-lly!



  • The whole premise is stupid for 2 reasons:

    1. Microsoft only even bothered because a bunch of stupid euro-weenie nations were making noise about it

    2. The file format is the application. Microsoft giving away Excel's file format is Microsoft giving away EVERY COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE EXCEL HAS.

    Now number 2 turned out to be less of a deal than we all figured it'd be, due to all of Microsoft's competitors being so fucking incompetent at office software, but you get the point. Microsoft did the bare minimum to make those loser Euro-weenies happy because they had no other incentive to do the work at all.

    You can't blame them for that; that's called "running a business".



  • @tarunik said:

    (like the infamous issue where Excel stubbornly believes 1900 is a leap year).

    You mean the bug in Lotus 1-2-3 that Excel supported so people could import Lotus spreadsheets?



  • The whole "not a lot of memory to work with" is why Mac Classic's epoch was Jan 1st 1904 instead of 1900. Saves a tiny bit of memory to skip the leap-year check you don't need to worry about for decades.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The file format is the application. Microsoft giving away Excel's file format is Microsoft giving away EVERY COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE EXCEL HAS.

    Here's the thing you don't get -- I wouldn't have given a peep had Microsoft simply kept their internal format internal and simply supported ODF as an import/export format (which is what they do now re: ODF anyway!). It was the Office division apparently not ever asking DevDiv "how do I ISO standard?" that got them into this mess.

    As to the rest? Given what I just said above -- you're being an idiot. (Hint: they went to great trouble to ram OOXML down the throats of ISO, which they never had to do -- simply supporting ODF import/export and the ODF standardization effort would have been plenty to keep the open-data advocates happy -- and they do have a point that proprietary data formats are a hazard to long-term data storage and retrieval, including data which must be retained for extended periods of time in order to support legal and/or commercial obligations.

    Hint: imagine if the deed to your house was stored as a WordStar file on a floppy, and you needed it to close out your mortgage.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @ben_lubar said:

    "making more of a contribution to open source than the FSF ever has".

    That weird noise you heard was RMS and JWZ having heart attacks.



  • @tarunik said:

    I wouldn't have given a peep had Microsoft simply kept their internal format internal and simply supported ODF as an import/export format

    Who gives a shit what you think?

    Microsoft cared about the euro-weenies threatening to move away from Office if they didn't open up the file format. Not you. They didn't care about you. I don't really, either.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Microsoft cared about the euro-weenies threatening to move away from Office if they didn't open up the file format. Not you. They didn't care about you. I don't really, either.

    What I'm saying is that supporting the ODF effort with import/export commitments and standards participation would have likely handled the euro-weenies concerns' more effectively than pissing people off by abusing the ISO standards process.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Thus, the combination of PowerShell and SSH will deliver a robust and secure solution to automate and to remotely manage Linux and Windows systems.

    Watch their marketing department trumpet this as the latest astounding MS innovation :-)


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Nah, you're thinking of Apple...

    Filed Under: Yes, yes, :trolleybus: and all that



  • @sloosecannon said:

    you're thinking of Apple

    Nah. It's just that I still recall the complete outrage I felt as a young'un when the tech press, such as it was then, got all feverish with excitement over the astounding innovation of hierarchical directories as soon as they turned up in MS-DOS.



  • +1


  • BINNED

    @tarunik said:

    Hint: imagine if the deed to your house was stored as a WordStar file on a floppy, and you needed it to close out your mortgage.

    What's the most irritating way to post in a forum? Hint: it involves repeatedly using the same word in slightly wrong contexts



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Microsoft giving away Excel's file format is Microsoft giving away EVERY COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE EXCEL HAS.

    So you've abandoned the ribbon after all?



  • @tarunik said:

    (Imagine the uproar if the C++ standard said to implement feature X "as GCC does it" -- one of the points of having a standard is that it's supposed to stand alone from implementations.)

    Uproar? Half the C standard and a good quarter of the C++ standard is "undefined behavior," except instead of "do what Turbo C did" it's "do anything that feels convenient," and compiler writers are still overjoyed that they get to screw the user hard. File formats should be a wee bit stricter, of course, but they rarely survive all the half-ass attempts to read and write and extend them: The AVI format is a prime example.



  • UB is an entirely separate can of worms...



  • @tarunik said:

    Hint: imagine if the deed to your house was stored as a WordStar file on a floppy, and you needed it to close out your mortgage.

    I think I still have WordStar somewhere, a computer that can run it and a couple of old floppy drives. So no problem unless it's on an 8" floppy. ;-)
    If only I could remember the key to get an overview of the keys in WS...


  • SockDev

    @nerd4sale said:

    If only I could remember the key to get an overview of the keys in WS...

    F1 i believe



  • @accalia said:

    @nerd4sale said:
    If only I could remember the key to get an overview of the keys in WS...

    F1 i believe

    Sure it's not Ctrl+K, H?


  • SockDev

    it's been a while and i may be mixing key combos with wordperfect, so.... maybe?


  • SockDev

    So does George RR Martin...



  • @accalia said:

    it's been a while and i may be mixing key combos with wordperfect, so.... maybe?

    My memory might by faulty.

    I used joe as my first editor when I started using Linux and IIRC it has Wordstar-like keybindings. I have vague memories of ^K, H showing the key overview.

    WordPerfect has really been too long for my poor memory.

    I'll look it up, brb.Back.

    [quote="Wordstar"]
    ^J      Help (use with K, O, P, or Q to display help screen, e.g., ^JK for Block Help)
    ^KH   Block Hide (Markers & Other Hidden Text Features) [I misremembered this one]
    [/quote]

    [quote="A Week With WordPerfect 5.1"]
    The first thing was to track down the help function (F1) and try and work out what keys did what.
    [/quote]

    You were right :smile:



  • That's it: ^J.
    I still remember some of the more useful keys like ^KB ^KK (mark begin/end of block), ^KD (save and exit), ^KQ (exit). I think the last time I used WS was probably in 1988. ;-)



  • While reading this:

    https://what.thedailywtf.com/t/yami-learns-powershell/48533?u=boomzilla

    I can't help but think how badly Windows needs SSH.


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