Since when is IE the leading browser in international politics!?



  • Continuing the discussion from Quotability:

    @RaceProUK said:

    True; it's only the third most-used browser, after all ;)

    WTF with this site? It says Internet Explorer has 56.54% market share. What's going on?


  • sockdevs

    i'd like to see the version breakdown on that but it's probably mostly IE7 and IE8 which a lot of businesses are locked into thanks to a failed technology called ActiveX and poorly programmed proprietarty business applications.

    ;-)



  • Or it's IE in general because it comes with Windows and most business use it anyway whether they're locked into it or not.

    I'd not class ActiveX as failed considering how widely it's been used.



  • One thing in particular that may explain it:

    Certain anti-virus products fake their user-agent to appear to be popular browsers. This is done to trick attack sites that might display clean content to the scanner, but not to the browser. The Register reported in June 2008 that traffic from AVG Linkscanner, using an IE6 user-agent, outstripped human link clicks by nearly 10 to 1.[1]



  • ActiveX is failed technology in every sense except how widely it's used in non-consumer web apps.


  • sockdevs

    @loopback0 said:

    I'd not class ActiveX as failed considering how widely it's been used.

    it's failed because it locked you into a browser and then that browser dropped support for it like a hot potato further increasing lock in.

    the atual technology was kind of awesome.


  • area_deu

    Yay for Germany!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Mikael_Svahnberg said:

    Web browser usage share varies from region to region as well as through time.[citation needed]

    Are they suggesting that browser share might never change and could never be different in different countries?



  • My favorite "citation needed" comes from this article:

    Kwangmyong prevents domestic users within North Korea to access foreign content or information and prevents the leakages of classified data.[citation needed]

    If the citation was to be trustworthy, it would need to come from Kwangmyong website...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Gaska said:

    WTF with this site? It says Internet Explorer has 56.54% market share. What's going on?

    @From the help button on that page said:

    This report lists the market share of the top browsers in use. This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of websites that use our service.

    [...]

    For information about our methodology, see the home page section entitled, 'About Our Market Share Statistics' [emph mine].

    ...which has a FAQ, which leads to https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology

    @Salespeak said:

    We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of HitsLink Analytics and SharePost clients. The network includes over 40,000 [ed - wow, so many!] websites, and spans the globe.

    In other news, the sky is pink in their world and Porcine™© Aviation® shares are literally through the roof.



  • @accalia said:

    it's failed because it locked you into a browser and then that browser dropped support for it like a hot potato further increasing lock in.

    ActiveX was never designed to lock you into a certain browser. Microsoft would have been overjoyed if Netscape has supported it in the late nineties. It does lock you into Windows, which was the whole point.

    Also, IE never dropped support for it, they just put reasonable security restrictions on it. Unfortunately, the only reasonable restriction you can put on embedded native code is "if you highly trust it, let it run, else disable it".



  • Oh... even more importantly, ActiveX was intended to encourage developers who wanted a web app to do more to use ActiveX instead of enhancing the HTML spec and inventing things like jQuery.



  • There's tons of ActiveX in Korea still, because they went whole-hog on it for some reason back in the day.



  • Y'all knew that IE is being discontinued, right? Oh, they're officially going to support it in enterprise versions of Windows, but their new browser is going to be the one they're building under Project Spartan.

    Among other things, there are strong hints that Spartan will not include ActiveX.



  • Yes. Duh.

    How is that relevant at all to what I posted?



  • @CoyneTheDup said:

    Y'all knew that IE is being discontinued, right? Oh, they're officially going to support it in enterprise versions of Windows, but their new browser is going to be the one they're building under Project Spartan.

    Just because it's being called Microsoft Edge instead of Microsoft Internet Explorer doesn't mean anything is changing. Heck, Edge is the name of rendering mode IE8 (or was it IE7) and newer use.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @powerlord said:

    Just because it's being called Microsoft Edge instead of Microsoft Internet Explorer doesn't mean anything is changing.

    Well, they're throwing out the old rendering engines, so it won't be able to render like IE7-11.


  • sockdevs

    The rendering engine is still Trident; they're just getting rid of all the compatibility bullshit


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said:

    The rendering engine is still Trident; they're just getting rid of all the compatibility bullshit

    Well, that's kind of a pendantic distinction.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    Well, that's kind of a pendantic distinction.

    Welcome to WTDWTF ;)



  • Naming their new browser after the rendering mode used by IEs 7-11 doesn't exactly scream out "we're dropping compatibility rendering mode!" to me.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @powerlord said:

    Naming their new browser after the rendering mode used by IEs 7-11 doesn't exactly scream out "we're dropping compatibility rendering mode!" to me.

    No, "Edge" always[1] meant "the rendering mode of the current version". "the compatibility rendering modes" is precisely the opposite of Edge.

    [1] Since they started using the word, that is.



  • Edge isn't the engine, it's referring to "bleeding edge"... I guess that it counts as a mode, sort of, except it's more like simply the opposite of "compatibility mode".
    :hanzo:'d i'm sure.


  • sockdevs

    @powerlord said:

    Just because it's being called Microsoft Edge instead of Microsoft Internet Explorer doesn't mean anything is changing. Heck, Edge is the name of rendering mode IE8 (or was it IE7) and newer use.

    This is the logo for Edge:

    Yes, a massive change there…



  • Wow, it's not just looking mostly the same, it even looks worse!


  • area_deu

    I miss the yellow circle-y thing ...



  • If you really do, I think you could get it back by using Resource Hacker or similar tool.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Or just edit the launchershortcut?



  • Wha?

    Do they like have mock western websites that make westerners look silly?

    "American Government says [NK Leader] is not naturalized citizen of [NK]. 'He can't even provide a full form birth certificate. Proves he wasn't born at all. Which means he isn't the son of [NK previous leader].'"

    "UK fails to make a gun that can fire more than one bullet before jamming"



  • @Onyx said:

    Or just edit the launchershortcut?

    Doesn't help with taskbar icon.

    @xaade said:

    Do they like have mock western websites that make westerners look silly?

    With no one being able to check out, everything is possible.



  • @Gaska said:

    Doesn't help with taskbar icon

    Try it. Yes it does.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Only if it's pinned though, I'd assume. And you edited the pin itself.

    In any case, I'd still not go through the trouble of hacking the EXE. Especially with something like IE which might easily be something that's scanned by sfc and the update manager. Who knows what kind of shit it might cause once you mess with it.



  • @Onyx said:

    Only if it's pinned though, I'd assume.

    Ooop, you're right. But if it's pinned with a custom icon, it'll keep that custom icon when it's launched-- it won't overwrite it with the application's normal icon.

    I guess until you mentioned it, I never tried this particular trick without pinning the shortcut first.



  • @Gaska said:

    With no one being able to check out, everything is possible.

    zombo.com.kp?



  • @hungrier said:

    .kp

    I love how this TLD matches Polish name of this country - Korea Północna.

    Though to be honest, it also matches the other Korea (Południowa).



  • If it's their national intranet, with their own DNS, they can just mock the domains.

    Someone can type amazon.com and it would send them to a local location that looks like a 5 year old made a ordering site with crayons and constant 404 errors. To make us look like we suck.

    Oh look at the Americans, can't make website. But our site is awesome.

    I mean, they still have posters showing an NK soldier with an old WWI rifle and bayonet, towering over NATO soldiers all with sticks.

    "NK is glorious, our boomsticks are louder!!!"

    Drone flies over.

    "Wait, what.... the fwuck is thwat?"

    Kaboom



  • @xaade said:

    I mean, they still have posters showing an NK soldier with an old WWI rifle and bayonet, towering over NATO soldiers all with sticks.

    Is it for real? Or is it just another hoax like that "North Korea won 9-1 against Germany in FIFA World Cup" thing (which surprisingly many people took seriously)?



  • Looks like they modernized the rifle a little bit recently, but it's still the same poster.



  • @xaade said:

    "NK is glorious, our boomsticks are louder!!!"

    Drone flies over.

    "Wait, what.... the fwuck is thwat?"

    Kaboom


    I wouldn't mock NK's military power. They have nukes after all...



  • @Gaska said:

    I wouldn't mock NK's military power. They have nukes after all...

    1. All we know is they've exploded at least one nuke. We have no idea how many functional nukes (if any!) they possess at the moment.

    2. They have no delivery systems capable of reaching me.



  • You mean the pinwheel?



  • @Gaska said:

    Is it for real? Or is it just another hoax like that "North Korea won 9-1 against Germany in FIFA World Cup" thing (which surprisingly many people took seriously)?

    Yes, they really do stuff like that. They tell their people that we're all starving in the streets. It's unclear how much people really believe vs go along to get along. National Geographic managed to make a documentary of a Nepalese doctor who has gotten permission to go in and perform cataract surgery in NK. Listen to the people when the bandages come off:

    Inside Under Cover in North Korea|Nat Geo Documentary – [41:21..47:27] 47:27
    — Utkarsh Singh

    Batshit insane. But you can't really blame them.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    1) All we know is they've exploded at least one nuke. We have no idea how many functional nukes (if any!) they possess at the moment.

    The Chicoms are saying they may have as many as 20.

    @blakeyrat said:

    They have no delivery systems capable of reaching me

    Nothing via missiles. I'm skeptical of them developing and deploying reliable ones. the ROKs and the Japanese have a lot more to worry about, of course.



  • That's a lot. Last article I read, the guess was "less than 5, probably less than 2, possibly zero."

    @boomzilla said:

    Nothing via missiles.

    Well they could chuck it in a 53' shipping container and shove it on one of those Chinese cargo ships and just park it in a US harbor somewhere.

    I know in theory they Geiger count everything coming in, but I'm guessing in reality it'd be pretty easy to slip it through that way.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    1) All we know is they've exploded at least one nuke. We have no idea how many functional nukes (if any!) they possess at the moment.

    Exactly - we don't know. But we know they're among the ten countries that we know they're capable of producing nuclear weapons.

    @blakeyrat said:

    2) They have no delivery systems capable of reaching me.

    Or do they?

    @boomzilla said:

    Yes, they really do stuff like that.

    Oh, I'm sure they do. Everyone does propaganda these days. It's just the matter of how bizarre it is.

    @boomzilla said:

    They tell their people that we're all starving in the streets.

    So does everybody else. Back in Soviet times, Polish schools were teaching children that people are starving in the streets in capitalist countries, most notably America. And today, we hear in the media that despite Russia being rich country, many people starve in the streets there - and in China, everyone outside Shanghai starves too. Also, the main argument about liberating labour laws is... yes, you guessed right - that people will starve in the streets then. BTW - what are American journalists saying about people in North Korea?

    NK propaganda isn't much different from propaganda in "western" countries - it's basically the same techniques, just taken to the extreme. I mean, if we were to believe what our propaganda says about their propaganda.



  • Any country with a population of a few hundred million is going to have at least a couple people a year starve to death "in the streets". That includes the United States.

    @Gaska said:

    And today, we hear in the media that despite Russia being rich country, many people starve in the streets there

    Russia is "income disparity rich". Meaning, if you look at the average wealth they look pretty rich. If you look at the median wealth, suddenly it's a different story.

    @Gaska said:

    BTW - what are American journalists saying about people in North Korea?

    North Korea had a legit bout of famine in the mid-90s. It's well-documented.

    @Gaska said:

    NK propaganda isn't much different from propaganda in "western" countries - it's basically the same techniques, just taken to the extreme.

    Well, the US has a free press which seems determined to tell us all how shitty we are all the time. I don't know if that counts as "propaganda" for you.



  • @Gaska said:

    BTW - what are American journalists saying about people in North Korea?

    Not a whole lot. Much of our information comes from defectors. A few people actually go there and report on what they see. Even the stuff they're allowed to see is pretty tragic.

    I think I've told this story here before, but my wife's sister (in New Jersey) did an exchange with some Soviet students back in the 80s. When the Soviets came over, they weren't allowed to live with the families and always had chaperones.

    They all (Americans and Sovs) went to a mall to get ice cream or something, and one of the minders was telling the kids how everything was just a show put on for their benefit. Those people didn't own the cars, there wasn't normally that much traffic or stuff on the store shelves, etc. Apparently, one of the Americans spoke Russian and told them that the minder was full of it and everything they saw was just normal.

    @Gaska said:

    NK propaganda isn't much different from propaganda in "western" countries -

    I don't know what metric you're using to get to that conclusion, but it's not a useful one.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Any country with a population of a few hundred million is going to have at least a couple people a year starve to death "in the streets". That includes the United States.

    I've seen stuff where they seem to think that our soldiers are malnourished and ripe for the bayoneting by grandma. Truly deluded and naive.



  • Yeah even the guided tours are pretty sad. It's usually the NK tour guides going, "look how impressive this is!" while pointing at, for example, a computer lab full of Pentium IIs in 2014.

    They have no idea how behind they are from the rest of the world. I remember one journalist I read who took a guided tour and how be completely blew-away his tour guide with one of those gum-wrapper-sized MP3 players. In North Korea, there's 1950s-esque transistor radios and that's all you get for portable music. (Outside the black market, of course.)



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Any country with a population of a few hundred million is going to have at least a couple people a year starve to death "in the streets". That includes the United States.

    I don't doubt it.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Russia is "income disparity rich". Meaning, if you look at the average wealth they look pretty rich. If you look at the median wealth, suddenly it's a different story.

    The article you've linked doesn't provide any data on median wealth, and doesn't even try to picture a typical Russian. It just says "OMG 110 people have half as much money together as every other Russian combined!"

    @blakeyrat said:

    I don't know if that counts as "propaganda" for you.

    Propaganda is an information that either:

    1. isn't 100% true,
    2. is opinionated (isn't dry facts),
    3. ignores some fact that contradicts the information.

    National propaganda is the kind of propaganda that comes, directly or indirectly, from a member of government or someone closely affiliated, officially or unofficially, with government.

    @blakeyrat said:

    North Korea had a legit bout of famine in the mid-90s. It's well-documented.

    What about 2010s?


  • area_deu

    @blakeyrat said:

    Russia is "income disparity rich". Meaning, if you look at the average wealth they look pretty rich. If you look at the median wealth, suddenly it's a different story.

    Further reading:


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