Empty Stadium



  • Due to rioting in Baltimore, the Orioles (baseball team located in that city) have decided that instead of more postponed games, they'll play in an empty stadium to keep their fans from having to travel through riot zones. Of course, you still have the problems of getting the people involved in the game to and from the stadium, but that's a lot less risk than a regular game.

    There are some interesting issues here, I think (NB: I learned this and am quoting from Althouse):

    Playing before the empty stands makes a powerful visual statement that is entirely different from a postponement. If there's a postponement, there's nothing to see, and seemingly nothing is lost...Many people will watch/listen and experience the theater of sadness.

    I think it will be a surreal experience for all involved. Looks like it will be on MLB's network (which I don't get) today at 2:05 PM EDT.

    Althouse also quotes another lawprof:

    But even if it was more expensive to the owners and MLB, sacrificing fans for the profits and logistics is not a good idea.

    Well, sure, the people who had tickets (the fans to which he referred) are missing out, but I suspect more fans watch on TV than in person any ways, and lots of postponements cause their own problems.

    A commenter weighs in on something stupid the owner said about the riots:

    I thought it was pretty rich for Orioles owner Angelos' son to try and blame outsourcing and the poor local economy for the riots--haven't the Orioles enjoyed the sort of tax subsidies to keep them in the city that could otherwise have gone to encourage local industries to stay in Baltimore?

    More to the point on the riots: If they're really about the police and the corrupt government, why do the rioters (NB: don't confuse this with peaceful protestors who are focusing on that stuff) loot and burn private property instead of government stuff? I think they guys attacking the police should be prosecuted, but I can at least respect their acts of noncivil disobedience. Assholes who use it as an excuse to loot Doritos are just assholes.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDjSLckUMAAhOny.jpg



  • @boomzilla said:

    Assholes who use it as an excuse to loot Doritos are just assholes.

    Could be worse. Before the 1950s or so, riots usually turned into pogroms.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Before the 1950s or so, riots usually turned into pogroms.

    Hmmm...which way? By or against the rioters?



  • @boomzilla said:

    Hmmm...which way? By or against the rioters?

    By the rioters against whatever the local hated minority was.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Assholes who use it as an excuse to loot Doritos are just assholes.

    Lyrics from Sublime's "April 29th 1992":

    April 26th, 1992 There was a riot on streets Tell me where were you? You were sittin' home watchin' your TV While I was participating in some anarchy First spot we hit it was my liquor store I finally got all that alcohol I can't afford With red lights flashin', time to retire And then we turned that liquor store into a structure fire Next stop we hit, it was the music shop, It only took one brick to make the window drop Finally we got our own P.A. Where do you think I got this guitar that you're hearing today?

    That's the mentality of the looters. They didn't even have enough respect for the original reason for the riot to get the date right.

    However, don't make the mistake of dismissing the riots just because assholes are piling on.



  • @boomzilla said:

    If they're really about the police and the corrupt government, why do the rioters (NB: don't confuse this with peaceful protestors who are focusing on that stuff) loot and burn private property instead of government stuff?

    I've seen a lot of people ask this online, and the typical response has been "You aren't black so you can't understand it!" 😕



  • @mott555 said:

    I've seen a lot of people ask this online, and the typical response has been "You aren't black so you can't understand it!"

    Sure, but let's talk about calculus, and if I say, "You aren't white so you can't understand it!" then I'm the racist.



  • @Jaime said:

    However, don't make the mistake of dismissing the riots just because assholes are piling on.

    I totally agree (as I think my OP shows). I just want to deal with the assholes as the assholes they are and not excuse them with otherwise legitimate issues.


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    @boomzilla said:

    More to the point on the riots: If they're really about the police and the corrupt government, why do the rioters (NB: don't confuse this with peaceful protestors who are focusing on that stuff) loot and burn private property instead of government stuff?

    Because every single protest is discredited by assholes at some point and journalists prefer talking about those assholes to talking about the actual, legitimate protests.

    BTW: When was the last time you saw a photo of some protest that was not staged? I honestly can't remember.



  • @asdf said:

    Because every single protest is discredited by assholes at some point and journalists prefer talking about those assholes to talking about the actual, legitimate protests.

    Obviously, one is more sensational. More to the point, what can you say about the actual protest issue here? We don't really know what happened in the case that touched everything off, but I suspect we can all agree that Baltimore city government is a cess pool.

    How do you fix it? There's no simple RACISM! (or even REPUBLICANS!) explanation, even if some are trying to push that. Tackling that is a lot of work, and what if the answer comes down to the citizens won't pay attention and hold the officials responsible (does that regularly happen anywhere?)?

    Ugly.



  • @boomzilla said:

    why do the rioters (NB: don't confuse this with peaceful protestors who are focusing on that stuff) loot and burn private property instead of government stuff?

    It's typical of crowd psychology. As I understand it, because there is too little organization for overall direction, the crowd tends to break into small groups, each with a leader who may not have any idea how to achieve the real goal (or even what it is) and so may choose inappropriate strategies. Or may even have other motives ("I want a color TV, let's raid that store.).

    Worse, people in the mob become convinced what they are doing is right, because it is what everyone else is doing. This can have feedback cycles as well, and so the activities of mobs tend to get worse over time.

    The picture is a perfect example: We're hungry. We need food. Let's get food. If the store owner resists in any way, he becomes [part of the problem/a surrogate for the government that's hard to reach] and so...robbed/hurt/killed/looted.

    Mobs are capricious and produce some of the worst crimes and destruction humanity is capable of. Somewhere long ago, I saw them compared to a forest fire. (Which was very apt, because fires are also capricious and destructive.)



  • Watched the local news yesterday (happened to be working from home by chance) (yes, yo, dat be my hood)

    Basically, the apparent response from everybody was undefined

    My opinion of many, many, of the people involved¹ has gone up a lot.

    except that the local news stuck with the same few stories over and over and never gave us a good overview of how widespread and how intense the "activities" were.

    undefined'd probably, since it took me a while to edit this down.

    ¹except, obviously, the actual looters and rock throwers.


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    @boomzilla said:

    More to the point, what can you say about the actual protest issue here?

    I wasn't talking about Baltimore in particular, but about protests in general. The fact that anarchists/criminals seem to take over every single protest these days and that media coverage then focuses on those people makes me absolutely furious.

    @boomzilla said:

    How do you fix it? There's no simple RACISM! (or even REPUBLICANS!) explanation, even if some are trying to push that.

    Re: Topic: Although I usually like to blame a lot of stuff on conservatives, I'd be the last one to claim that there could possibly be a simple solution to such a complex problem. In fact, the tendency to oversimplify complex social issues and push idiotic populist "solutions" is exactly what I hate about most conservative/right-wing parties.*

    * Not saying that extreme left-wing/socialists parties don't do the same.



  • @asdf said:

    The fact that anarchists/criminals seem to take over every single protest these days and that media coverage then focuses on those people makes me absolutely furious.

    I can agree with that, except that these people need some focus, just so long as they aren't described as part of the protest.

    @asdf said:

    Re: Topic: Although I usually like to blame a lot of stuff on conservatives, I'd be the last one to claim that there could possibly be a simple solution to such a complex problem. In fact, the tendency to oversimplify complex social issues and push idiotic populist "solutions" is exactly what I hate about most conservative/right-wing parties

    • Not saying that extreme left-wing/socialists parties don't do the same.

    Yes, it's common for everyone, though in this case in particular, Baltimore has been very much dominated by Democrats for a long time, and there are plenty of blacks in positions of power (recently, at least, I'm less clear on its history WRT race vs party), so the typical lazy responses ring a bit more hollow than they often do. I've heard Obama complaining that at least some of the problem is that Republicans in Congress have held up his agenda, and it's just the sort of vague thing he loves to talk about, but I'm quite certain that if pressed for specifics, he couldn't offer up anything that wasn't super nonsensical.



  • In this case in particular, there was a remarkable lack of finger pointing and blaming. Yesterday.

    Whatever bizarre alignment of the planets caused it, politically, there's not been much rancor since last Fall's election - which featured a previously unknown Republican governor being swept into office in a state that's overwhelmingly, I mean really overwhelmingly, Democratic.



  • @ijij said:

    In this case in particular, there was a remarkable lack of finger pointing and blaming.

    Yeah, my cynical right wing self says it's because the city is too obviously Democrat run and not by oppressive white folk (at least, not since O'Malley). 👿

    @ijij said:

    Yesterday

    Is that to say that it has started today? Or that you expect it to?


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    @ijij said:

    except that the local news stuck with the same few stories over and over and never gave us a good overview of how widespread and how intense the "activities" were.

    Well, you kinda expect that from local news stations. The sad truth is that the big ones aren't much better. Have you ever been publicly accused of hating people of a certain race/origin simply because you went to a school named after a slightly questionable person? Well, I have, on multiple national media outlets.



  • @asdf said:

    Well, I have, on multiple national media outlets.

    Personally or collectively?



  • @boomzilla said:

    Obama complaining that at least some of the problem is that Republicans in Congress have held up his agenda, and it's just the sort of vague thing he loves to talk about, but I'm quite certain that if pressed for specifics, he couldn't offer up anything that wasn't super nonsensical.
    FTFY

    undefined


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    @boomzilla said:

    Personally or collectively?

    Mostly collectively, but I've also had to endure personal attacks after that story came out. I don't think that makes a difference, though. If a journalist claims that every single person who has ever attended a particular school which, apart from its name, has no connection to racism whatsoever is racist, then that's a personal attack against anyone who has ever attended that school.


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