Boost::Fuck! (the git command)
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You do know that programs like rm weren't open source when they were made, right?
And that's relevant because...?
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Now delete a file on a portable drive, move it to another computer, and restore the file. Does it work?
The Recycle Bin on Windows is turned off on portable drives by default, so this wouldn't work on Windows without special preparation.@blakeyrat said:And that's relevant because...?
Because one of your screeds has been on how open source sucks and doesn't provide a Windows-like user experience nor obey Windows-specific expectations (quota-constrained roaming profiles for example). The other screed, the one you're on now, is how command lines suck and don't provide a user-friendly, undo-friendly experience. Eldelshell doesn't know that the two screeds are different.
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That's easy. Format only writes a new root directory entry and allocation table. DOS had an UNFORMAT command in 1991.
Yeah, but----------------------- MS-DOS v6.22 Help: UNFORMAT ------------------------ <Notes> <Examples> <Index> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNFORMAT Restores a disk that was erased by using the FORMAT command. UNFORMAT restores only local hard disk drives and floppy disk drives; it cannot be used on network drives. The UNFORMAT command can also rebuild a corrupted disk partition table on a hard disk drive. (...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNFORMAT--Notes Limitation on the UNFORMAT command If the FORMAT command was used with the /U switch, UNFORMAT cannot restore the disk to its previous condition. (...) If UNFORMAT finds a file that appears to be fragmented (that is, stored in separate places on the disk), it cannot recover the file because it cannot locate the remaining portions of the file. In this case, the UNFORMAT command prompts you to confirm whether you want UNFORMAT to truncate the file (that is, recover only the first part of the file that it can locate) or delete the file altogether.So it's not always possible.
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Flagged for being a madman. <ok not really>
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So it's not always possible.
You've shown that a 25 year old utility has limitations, nothing else.
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You've shown that a 25 year old utility has limitations, nothing else.
I've shown that formatting isn't completely reversible even with this ancient tool. The complete reversibility is the whole point of this discussion.
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I've shown that formatting isn't completely reversible even with this ancient tool.
That would require the
FORMATto have backed up the old map of the data locations somewhere. (That'd mean saving the File Allocation Table and the root directory mainly; FAT wasn't very sophisticated, and kept all that data together at a fixed disk location.)
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That would require the FORMAT to have backed up the old map of the data locations somewhere.
Exactly. But @blakeyrat seems to forget that reversibly-deleted data still occupies space, and space recovery is #1 reason why computer-savvy people ever delete stuff.
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It saves the superblock and the root directory only, which is why it can't correct for fragmented files: it only knows which block is the start of the chain for each file, and just assumes that each file runs continuously until it hits EOF or would overrun another file.
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The #1 reason why I delete files is 100% emotional.
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You're not the common case then. Also, #1 doesn't imply it's the only possible reason. It just happens to be more often than any other alternative.
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Also the only filesystem that sounds like a porn category.
Ever since they changed FAT to something else.
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Heh, this tool has been in Windows, under All Programs>Accessories, for ages.
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Ever since they changed FAT to something else.
Suddenly, I find so much wrong with FAT16.
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Not to mention FAT12, at least a FAT16 is legal over here...
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v1.21
That is... what? Wonder what v0.01 did.
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Heh, this tool has been in Windows, under All Programs>Accessories, for ages.
Searching on my Windows 8.1 box:
Mildly confused by the Facebook link there...
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F(aceb)uck?
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Either that or Bing has identified a lot of people searching "Fuck Facebook"...
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Did you turn it on?
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It doesn't matter WHAT the operation is, I just want to be able to undo it. Always. At all times. Why shouldn't I be able to?
Because the life is like this, you little whiny dumbfuck. And the whole universe is like this.
Once the meat is minced, you cannot unmince it into living cattle anymore.If you disagree, you can just as well jump outta window, thinking maybe there's a way to undooooooooo [splat!]
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Hey I just thought, what the implications would be if blakey had successfully built the ultimate-unlimited-undo-always-available storage system?
And then security and privacy concerns come to my mind. What if some wrong hands get the access to this storage, and they are immediately able to see that blakey is cheating on his wife with a gorilla? Or a government agency suddenly discovering that secure delete on their documents is no longer possible? Or your financial data before you want to sell your magical storage unit to someone?
That's the fucking problem of it all. The world is all about the fucking balance and equilibrium. You don't want infinitely strong clothes that you can't rip apart if you're bleeding, to improvise a band-aid, or make your escape from a manic rapist only because they're holding you in place. You don't want to have unbreakable windows. You don't want a house you can't ever demolish because it's built to withstand any man-made equipment or natural disaster whatsoever. You don't want to ever write on a piece of paper that can't possibly be destroyed.
Normal people adapt to this fairly well and live happy lives.
It's only for chronically negligent dumbfucks like blakey that it even poses a problem. The rest of us has backups and failsafes like hardlinks and the cron daemon.
I really hope he doesn't work as a surgeon, or an air traffic controller. Heck, I wouldn't trust him to drive a fucking car.
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It's only for chronically negligent dumbfucks like blakey that it even poses a problem. The rest of us has backups and failsafes like hardlinks and the cron daemon.
Again, why Linux will never take off. Blame the user philosophy. People aren't perfect. Using "rm" on the wrong file shouldn't be an instant, irretrievable catastrophe. Tech should make our lives easier, not add stress and problems.I'm reminded of the Simpsons where they go to Monster Mart, the store's motto on the sign is "Where Shopping Is A Terrifying Ordeal!" Linux reminds me of that.
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If the demand is so high, I expect someone would write, by now, a file manager akin to a partition manager, which allows you to undo and redo at will until you hit the wondrous "Commit" button.
But I think the demand was, and is, more or less equal to zero.
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had successfully built the ultimate-unlimited-undo-always-available storage system
They exist. Here's a random one I found via Google.
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Again, why Linux will never take off.
Because majority of users will instantly open a terminal emulator and start throwing
rms around?Or use a GUI, hit delete and use the trash if they fuck up?
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But I think the demand was, and is, more or less equal to zero.
That's because Linux is powered by Stockholm Syndrome. Everybody using it has basically gone through "wow this CLI is so great!" brainwashing. They genuinely think their 1970s technology is better than the competition.
The "demand" is zero, because Linux (excluding stuff like Android or your PVR) zero normal general-purpose computer users. And it has zero of those because it's not even bothering to try gaining more. And they're not bothering because every time they've tried in the past (every "Year of Linux"), they've utterly and completely failed to compete against OS X and Windows.
(And note: I don't care if they think Linux is superior to other OSes, they're welcome to be delusional, as long as they're not pushing that shit onto other people. But no! Now I have to use Git to develop an app that only runs on Windows servers, fucking Linux assholes.)
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You don't want infinitely strong clothes that you can't rip apart if you're bleeding, to improvise a band-aid, or make your escape from a manic rapist only because they're holding you in place
You're trying to solve the wrong problem. Infinitely string clothes could be a problem but what about, say, self-healing clothes that can repair themselves from a small tear?
For file deletion, why not have a trash that "deleted" items are moved into by default? There can still be a hard delete but it would be the more final option for when you're sure you've removed the correct item. It's called user-friendliness, and despite how some linux weenies feel about it, it's not a naughty word.
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zero normal general-purpose computer users.
As if I care.If I were a user support shop, I'd rather lose all the blakeys as users and save myself a few neurons, you're a lousy ROI source anyway.
I use Linux, and it suits me, because 1) I know what I'm doing most of the time, 2) I have failsafes for when I don't, 3) I don't sit at the keyboard while drunk. Your mileage may vary.
The world is now big on web-based things, for the most part, and your workstation and whatever it's running doesn't matter anymore, as long as it has a web browser in it.
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For file deletion, why not have a trash that "deleted" items are moved into by default? There can still be a hard delete but it would be the more final option for when you're sure you've removed the correct item. It's called user-friendliness, and despite how some linux weenies feel about it, it's not a naughty word.
That's what there is in all graphical file managers. If you start poking around in terminal like you're aware of the low level of it but are actually not, you deserve no mercy.
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If I were a user support shop, I'd rather lose all the blakeys as users and save myself a few neurons, you're a lousy ROI source anyway.
Then who's paying you?
1) I know what I'm doing most of the time,
Only most?
2) I have failsafes for when I don't,
No, you don't. That's what we're talking about in this thread.
3) I don't sit at the keyboard while drunk.
Pfft! I don't sit at it while sober.
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If you start poking around in terminal like you're aware of the low level of it but are actually not, you deserve no mercy.
i.e. user friendly = bad and if you break something at the command line because the command line is nasty to use, that's proof the command line is better than a GUI
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Pfft! I don't sit at it while sober.
Well that's your own little problem, deal with it.Then who's paying you?
My employer. Who orders linuxy, servery, web interfacey things from me. I don't even know if his customers have Windows, Linuxes or Macs, I just don't care.
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i.e. user friendly = bad and if you break something at the command line because the command line is nasty to use, that's proof the command line is better than a GUI
Fuck your straw man arguments. To paraphrase what I said above: if you start poking around in C but give zero fucks about memory allocation and pointers, when you get a segfault and start whining, you are just fucked and deserve no mercy. No one cares what you think of user-friendliness of C, it's used by those who know how and where to use it.
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Which is why real code is done in C#, where you can give zero fucks about memory allocation and have to hit the "I know what I'm doing" switch before touching pointers, and don't even need to think about segfaults because absent hardware failure or hitting the switch incorrectly they never happen.
See? Better.
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Yeah, I was just thinking thank god I get to develop in sane languages on a sane OS and avoid all these decades old, brutally awful pitfalls @wft seems so very proud of.
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See? Better.
No, that makes it worse. Because you should be punished if you try to use something without studying it for 4 years and getting a Masters degree in it first
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NullReferenceExceptions, NullReferenceExceptions everywhere!
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Which is why real code is done in C#, where you can give zero fucks about memory allocation
Maybe, but instead, you have to worry about object lifetimes and resource usage.Just because it's managed code, doesn't make it immune to moronicity
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Also, I love how @blakeyrat suddenly stopped pursuing the point that everything should be undoable when I posted a few examples of when it's not just technically impossible, but also undesirable.
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No I just got bored.
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No I just got bored.
Conveniently, you've got bored exactly at the time where you had to defend your undefendable argument.
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Linux (excluding stuff like Android or your PVR) zero normal general-purpose computer users
Do we have a thread for blakeyfacts? I know non-technical people who use Ubuntu.
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Conveniently, you've got bored exactly at the time where you had to defend your undefendable argument.
It was also THE WEEKEND.
I have more patience for this shit when I'm procrastinating at work.
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imaginary part = 0
Then C code is much more real than C# code, because there's almost no abstraction at all.
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In C#, you deal with objects and high level concepts. In C, you have to imagine them while you twiddle with bits and memory addresses.
