Spartan, what are you doing?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Type a URL with uppercase letters in the address bar. It'll "helpfully" convert the entire URL to lowercase, for display purposes only. Click in the bar, and the casing comes back. WTF?



  • @FrostCat said:

    Click in the bar, and the casing comes back.

    That sounds like it is doing it right. At least if it is doing the part that proceeded:

    @FrostCat said:

    It'll "helpfully" convert the entire URL to lowercase, for display purposes only.

    What exactly is the WTF?



  • @locallunatic said:

    What exactly is the WTF?

    Indeed, I do not see it either.


  • sockdevs

    TR :wtf: is that it's fiddling with the case in the first place :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election



  • I guess mucking with the case for display could be a WTF (for low levels of WTF), but at least it keeps it for editing things. Oh, @FrostCat I originally read your thing as entered all caps and it switched but you meant it removed the caps from a mixed one didn't you? That makes more sense as a WTF.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @locallunatic said:

    What exactly is the WTF?

    The fact that everything after the hostname is (or can be) case sensitive?

    Rants about that last bit I'll leave for members of the Murinae subfamily.


  • mod

    Actual question I hurt my brain answering today: "Does %2f vs %2F matter?"

    "Er, well, URLs are case-sensitive, but also, that's a digit not a letter, digits don't have case, so.... probably not?"


  • sockdevs

    @Yamikuronue said:

    "Does %2f vs %2F matter?"

    In a URL? No, doesn't matter ;)


  • mod

    Yeah, we figured that out, but ow, my brain hurts


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Yamikuronue said:

    Actual question I hurt my brain answering today: "Does %2f vs %2F matter?"

    In a URI? Sometimes because %2f may not necessarily equate to a /, so %2f and %2F are could be different.

    In a URL? No, since comparison between them should happen after resolving either to a /.

    So - it depends on what scheme you're using.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @locallunatic said:

    What exactly is the WTF?

    I want the URL to look the way it actually is. On Unix servers, this matters.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @locallunatic said:

    you meant it removed the caps from a mixed one didn't you? That makes more sense as a WTF.

    Yes, this is what I meant.



  • Ehehe. Makes perfect sense. Microsoft is trying to take an existing product and make it new, hip and cool, without actually changing anything from a technical point of view (because the rendering engine was already as good as they could make it), so what are they supposed to do? Fiddle with the case, change the icons, make everything flatter, move UI controls around, stuff like that.



  • But Internet Explorer users tend to be people who live in all-Microsoft worlds. The remaining users are web developers trying to support the Microsoft users.

    And by Microsoft users, I mean people who don't know there are other companies that make things for computers or willfully choose to ignore the fact that there are.

    So what Microsoft is doing is making Internet Explorer's UI more consistent for Windows web servers while making it harder to debug issues that an Internet Explorer user has based on case sensitive Unix paths.

    Presumably, the second thing is a side effect.



  • @PJH said:

    The fact that everything after the hostname is (or can be) case sensitive?

    I know that just had misread the description to saying that if all caps it switched (which kinda works from a usability stand point) vs. switches any caps in a mixed case to lower case.



  • Yeah well when they made the menus in Visual Studio all-caps people freaked the shit out, so I guess they figured they could make the URLs in Spartan all-lowercase and that'll balance it out.



  • I'm guessing it's to prevent phishing. Changing the URL to lowercase would show you the difference between MICROSOFT.COM and MlCROSOFT.COM.



  • TRWTF is case sensitivity.


  • sockdevs

    @NedFodder said:

    I'm guessing it's to prevent phishing. Changing the URL to lowercase would show you the difference between MICROSOFT.COM and MlCROSOFT.COM.

    Domains should be all lower-case anyway; I believe it's part of the standard. But the path? That should have its case preserved, TYVM :stuck_out_tongue:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said:

    Domains should be all lower-case anyway

    Domains can be any case; they're case-insensitive so that bit of each character is meaningless. I don't know what happens with IDNs, despite having done things with writing decoders and encoders for them. (That particular spec is high-grade WTF…)



  • @RaceProUK said:

    TR is that it's fiddling with the case in the first place

    Every browser does that, though - or at least every browser I checked so far. Only for the hostname, obviously.

    Does Spartan change the casing of post-hostname path? That would be a WTF, but I doubt it.


  • sockdevs

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    Does Spartan change the casing of post-hostname path? That would be a WTF, but I doubt it.

    OP claims it does. Can't check myself though; don't have Win10 set up anywhere, and I don't think Spartan is available for Win8.1.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I don't think Spartan is available for Win8.1.

    Win 10 only.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said:

    OP claims it does. Can't check myself though; don't have Win10 set up anywhere, and I don't think Spartan is available for Win8.1.

    Here's a URL entered into the address bar:

    Here's what it looks like after I hit enter:

    Then I click in the address bar as if I wanted to edit the URL.

    It remembers the case, but it presents it without case.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Also, I had about 6 tabs open, and I was trying to rearrange them so I could keep the ones that were work-relevant out of the screenshots. The browser elegantly froze briefly, three time, with the tabs mod-slide, leading to jumbled text-over-text. Then the entire window just closed without warning or error.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Quality coding there.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    If I may... where in the fsck did the titlebar go?

    Me (and others) chastised Vivaldi for pulling that crap. This seems even worse. I see literally no spacing between tabs and window borders. If I have many tabs, how am I supposed to move the damned thing?

    Actually, it reminds me of...

    Damn it MS, no! Don't go full Gnome3! Please?


  • area_deu

    That's just idiotic.
    We could ask @wood if he could implement such a thing for links on Discourse.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @aliceif said:

    We could ask @wood if he could implement such a thing for links on Discourse.

    You're assuming it's not in his bikeshedding schedule already.



  • @Onyx said:

    how am I supposed to move the damned thing?

    I don't think that's an issue here. It's a Windows Store app, so you probably can't separate the tabs by dragging them. That's annoying in other ways, but I never want to do that anyway, and it just makes me mad when chrome does it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Magus said:

    you probably can't separate the tabs by dragging them

    How does that help it differentiate "I want to move the whole window to the right" from "I want to move this tab to the right"? You can still re-arrange them, can't you?

    @FrostCat said:

    Also, I had about 6 tabs open, and I was trying to rearrange them so I could keep the ones that were work-relevant out of the screenshots. The browser elegantly froze

    Well, ok, after they fix that bit.



  • I don't know, I'll try it when I get home, but my expectation would be that dragging vertically puts it in move mode, and horizontally puts it in move tab mode. That could get annoying, depending on how it's implemented, though, so maybe they thought of something better.

    As for the freezing, this is the first public version on the unstable version of an incomplete, 'just for testing' OS. Lots of things crash currently. They say so before you install it.

    It's like switching this forum to Discourse against everyone's will, except that you don't have to if you don't want to.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Magus said:

    my expectation would be that dragging vertically puts it in move mode, and horizontally puts it in move tab mode

    That's just shitty design if they did something like that. Seriously. It's unintuitive and error-prone as all hell.

    @Magus said:

    As for the freezing, this is the first public version on the unstable version of an incomplete, 'just for testing' OS. Lots of things crash currently. They say so before you install it.

    Of course. I was just making a cheap joke while confirming my statement that you can rearrange tabs. Wasn't meant as serious bashing.

    Why do people keep doing this shit? What is wrong with window borders recently? The fact that we're moving to 21:9 screens or something (that's a different kind of bullshit there)? Can't we just make them thinner? If not, can we have at least the top left corner reserved for "grab area" or something?

    I can always use Alt + click to move windows here, but Windows users are fucked. Even in MS added something like that, everyone will have to learn it immediately. BTW, I'm not required to use it in Gnome / Cinnamon / KDE, I just find it convenient.


    Filed under: INB4 long click anywhere to move, pound-sign-everything's-a-phone


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Onyx said:

    Well, ok, after they fix that bit.

    You certainly can drag Spartan tabs. They even work most of the time. I hadn't seen that freezing behavior before.



  • Generally, in Windows, you'd use Alt + Space, then press M if you want to move with the arrow keys, or, more simply, Win + any arrow key, which snaps the window in he specified direction. I assume those work for apps. Now I really want to boot my Win10 machine and find out about all this.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Onyx said:

    If I may... where in the fsck did the titlebar go?

    You can grab the dark-grey area to the right of the plus to drag the window. Just like IE, Spartan shrinks tabs as you get more of them--you'll always have an inch-or-so wide stub to the right of the tabs and left of the other buttons.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    That's ok, I guess. At least I can grab it somewhere.

    I still hate that shit. No matter who does it. It's shit in Opera, it's shit in FF, it's shit in Chrome and it's shit in all of Gnome freaking 3.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Magus said:

    . It's a Windows Store app

    I'm actually not sure if it is or not. All applications have that window chrome now.

    @Magus said:

    so you probably can't separate the tabs by dragging them.

    Yes, you can, or I wouldn't have seen the thing freeze up with tabs overdrawing each other. I did specifically mention reordering them.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Magus said:

    I don't know, I'll try it when I get home, but my expectation would be that dragging vertically puts it in move mode, and horizontally puts it in move tab mode.

    No, like I said, grabbing a tab moves the tab; grabbing the rest of the title bar moves the window. There's a color differentiation.



  • @FrostCat said:

    the casing comes back

    If the case don't fit...
    you must... [spoiler]oqvil[/spoiler]


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @xaade said:

    If the case don't fit...you must...

    shit? yell "you twit"? sit?



  • @FrostCat said:

    window chrome now.

    Does Chrome have that chrome? If Chrome's chrome isn't the same chrome but is instead different chrome, it might be that Chrome's chrome is the standard Windows chrome, while Spartan's chrome (differing from Chrome's chrome) is Windows Store Chrome.

    I do know that they're slightly different, since apps have the 'immersive' maximize mode.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Magus said:

    Does Chrome have that chrome?

    Haven't put Chrome on win10 yet.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Since when are window decorations called "chrome"?

    Damn moon-language again!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Onyx said:

    Since when are window decorations called "chrome"?

    "User interface chrome, the borders and widgets that frame the content part of a window"


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Wiki reference for chrome leads to: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/C/chrome.html

    [from automotive slang via wargaming] Showy features added to attract users but contributing little or nothing to the power of a system. “The 3D icons in Motif are just chrome, but they certainly are pretty chrome!” Distinguished from bells and whistles by the fact that the latter are usually added to gratify developers' own desires for featurefulness. Often used as a term of contempt.

    Well then... sure is appropriate for what is happening to GUIs lately.

    "Hey, I can't even grab the window properly any more. Nor find the menus. But it sure is pretty!"



  • @Onyx said:

    Since when are window decorations called "chrome"?

    The fuck? They've always been called that.

    I always thought "Chrome" was a clever name for a web browser, considering that Google thinks everything is the web, the browser is just the "chrome" surrounding the real action (the website itself).



  • Well, Microsoft's goal is to eliminate as much chrome as possible while still containing functionality. They overshoot at times, like with the whole not even having a start icon in Win8, but getting rid of non-functional elements is something I approve of.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Magus said:

    getting rid of non-functional elements is something I approve of

    So the area that I can grab to move the window, right click it to get extra options, shows me the name of the application (and / or opened files etc.) and houses the buttons I use to interact with it is non-functional?

    Look, I'm not being a Luddite here. I agree you should get rid of shit that's in the way. I'm fine with hamburger-variants when done properly, for example. I'd actually make menus that are one button and which you can search through. Win + type shit to find applications, Alt* + type shit to find stuff within application. Good, great, if done well I'd be behind that. They work well enough in browsers and similar (relatively) low-option environments.

    Who the smeg ever complained about window borders? About something that's convenient, easy to use, and informative?


    * - obviously using Alt alone would mess with other shortcuts. I oversimplified.


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