Random Rant of the night.
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whole affirmative action thing is to try to address the problems where people are not succeeding because of their race
That works when race has nothing to do with what you are marketing.
Blacks own a lot of positions in Hollywood in comparison to other minorities, where English language is more of the problem than race itself. They may struggle getting the primary role, but they get into the movies, and even have their own all black cast shows, as well as hispanics.
Have you seen an all oriental comedy American English sitcom? How about Arab?
Rednecks are represented with some of their all culture cast, but only because the north and swest America shows peculiar interest in it in the exaggerated form (as a from of mockery).
Could you imagine a show of all black cast where the point was to make fun of black stereotypes? That wouldn't go over so well.
So why can redneck stereotypes get mocked by a Jew acting the role (waterboy) no less, but not any other culture group? Because you don't have an outside audience wanting to watch blacks get made fun of. Again it goes to what people want to see. Rememeber we used to have black-face.
Ultimate point not being caught up on racial issues, but that market decides, and if people really cared about affirmative action, they would only see movies where races were fairly incorporated, even if it meant at the cost of quality performance.
And the states which are largely liberal tend to have higher income levels, so they could control the demand market.
The reality is much grimmer, where activists like to voice concern, but then hang that coat up when it comes to paying for it with their own decisions or money.
Me personally, I love movies with a more diverse cast. I think it adds a lot more character to the show and makes the characters more different from each other and therefore more interesting.
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You can look at west coast Africans who have benefited from colonization, and compare that to eastern Africans, and you see a clear distinction from peaceful people on the west, and an encroaching violence from the east.
I can't be bothered to pick apart your entire post, it's got that much wrong with it, but this particular paragraph is thoroughly factually wrong. There's been rather a lot of civil wars through places like Sierra Leone — definitely West Africa! — in the past decade. There was also the recent war in Mali, and the ongoing war with Boko Haram in Nigeria (that's also spilled over into neighbouring countries). The facts simply do not support your thesis.
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The problem is that we dumped slaves out of slavery without taking the time to educate them on what it takes to be successful in society.
I don't think that's really the problem. New immigrants to the country don't get that and a lot of them come from some pretty awful places. Former slaves had many problems post-slavery, but it seems to me like they were making a lot of progress in many areas and have been giving that back a lot of that for the last several decades.
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if people really cared about affirmative action, they would only see movies where races were fairly incorporated, even if it meant at the cost of quality performance.
Who's going to watch a film that's racially balanced if it's a bit shit compared to one that isn't?
I bet most people don't give a shit what race the actors are in films. I don't. I care that the film's good. Or at least entertaining.
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Who's going to watch a film that's racially balanced if it's a bit shit compared to one that isn't?
I bet most people don't give a shit what race the actors are in films. I don't. I care that the film's good. Or at least entertaining.
This +∞
Edit: I will add that recasting an established character with the wrong race might be annoying, but I don't mind unless the race was important in the original work, or was made important in the derived work while previously it wasn't.
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Sierra Leone
Following the American Revolutionary War, the British had evacuated thousands of freed African-American slaves and resettled them in Canadian and Caribbean colonies and London. Many struggled in their new lives. In 1787 the British Crown founded a settlement in Sierra Leone in what was called the "Province of Freedom". It intended to resettle some of the "Black Poor of London," mostly African Americans freed by the British during the war.
Oh, look. That doesn't support what I was saying at all about freed slaves given little to adjust to freedom creating an environment of hostility in the future.
Sierra Leone is a predominantly Muslim country
So, a country in west Africa that's an exception because it has the same problems that east Africa is filled with. Interesting.
ongoing war with Boko Haram in Nigeria
"Group of the People of Sunnah for Preaching and Jihad"
Hmm.... patterns patterns.
war in Mali
The MNLA were initially backed by the Islamist group Ansar Dine. After the Malian military was driven from Azawad, Ansar Dine and a number of smaller Islamist groups began imposing strict Sharia law.
...
Look, I didn't want to indicate the religious factors right off the bat, because I see two inherent problems. But Africa definitely benefited from colonization, and was hurt whenever the colonizing countries were forced out by violence, attacked by Muslims, or freed without given an education to adjust to new life of freedom.
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Who's going to watch a film that's racially balanced if it's a bit shit compared to one that isn't?
Ok, but how else can you really support racial diversity?
You can either support it with money until Hollywood notices and starts investing in it.
Or you can force intervention through yelling like an idiot, boycotts, and protests, until you only have crappy movies and Hollywood feels forced to invest in it.
If there isn't enough English speaking quality actors of a certain type, you can't force there to be. And if you do always hire the small group that fit the bill, you still get criticized by SJW.
My point was that, if all these SJW really cared about seeing diversity, they'd support films with diversity as a primary strategy. They'd invest money in businesses that did what they wanted so those businesses would survive instead of dying out tomorrow.
I don't think Organic or non-GMO is all that big of a deal, but the communities that fight for these things have done a good job of paying the bill and supporting companies that charge a higher cost for those things. Now you have entire store chains that sell the stuff. Kudos for them, that's activism done right.
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You can either support it with money until Hollywood notices and starts investing in it.
Right... but...
If there isn't enough English speaking quality actors of a certain type, you can't force there to be.
I feel like you just broke your own argument.
In fact - it seems like you started this whole topic complaining about someone being the wrong race, and now you're complaining about people who complain about someone being the wrong race?
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I feel like you just broke your own argument
I mean force by political posturing.
If the government intervened and made people hire minorities for movies, we'd just see failing movies.
If people start paying for diversity, then Hollywood will catch on and search through the right channels for good talent, but that takes time. People don't like things taking time when they want to act as activists, because they want that immediate satisfaction for their fake concerns.
Relatively none of these people want to start organizations to volunteer to train or search for talent. Or do things that promote positive change.
No, they prefer to point a loaded political gun.
someone being the wrong race, and now you're complaining about people who complain about someone being the wrong race
- My complaint was satire. I really don't care, and I think he did a tremendous job for what the movie was supposed to be, over the top hammy action. Lot of people criticize those kinds of movies because they don't realize that's what it was supposed to be. For example, the 1-3 Spiderman movies were supposed to pay homage to cheesy comic book hamminess.
- No, I don't complain about people who complain about someone being the wrong race. I wouldn't have had a problem with Last Airbender having minority actors play the main characters. I personally find the fact that they changed the characters personalities into exact opposites for angst to be more annoying.
- I'm complaining about people who want to force the issue. Fortunately these people don't get the light of day in Hollywood, but I can't avoid them in the videogame industry. It's everywhere in every videogame forum or chat.
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I mean force by political posturing.
If the government intervened and made people hire minorities for movies, we'd just see failing movies.
If people start paying for diversity, then Hollywood will catch on and search through the right channels for good talent, but that takes time. People don't like things taking time when they want to act as activists, because they want that immediate satisfaction for their fake concerns.
RIght but..... nah, you know what, arguing about something I don't care about is silly.
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If the government intervened and made people hire minorities for movies,
... has anybody in this thread asked for that? WTF, you're way off the rails.
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... has anybody in this thread asked for that? WTF, you're way off the rails.
In this thread, no. Offline, yes, absolutely; several congresscritters have even proposed bills to that effect.
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Who's going to watch a film that's racially balanced if it's a bit shit compared to one that isn't?
Indeed. Please don't contribute to Puppy Sadness.
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... has anybody in this thread asked for that? WTF, you're way off the rails.
Well, this particular sub-thread started from this statement.
Theoretically, and ideally, yes. Reality's a bit less even than that. We can wish it wasn't, of course, but the whole point of the whole affirmative action thing is to try to address the problems where people are not succeeding because of their race, rather than because of whether they're hard working, smart or have good creative ideas. (Or the combination of those things, more normally.)
So, it's hard to understand my arguments if you don't go back that far.
The point being that affirmative action is fine in a business place in offices, but it doesn't work when the selling trait is a person's appearance and ability to act.
Affirmative action cannot be written in such a way to ensure that people from different races and are equally qualified get hired. It can only check % of people hired by race, not qualifications or performance. (mostly because it's hard to tell what performance you would have gotten, had you hired someone else).
But an audience doesn't care about all that, it only cares if it like the move.
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But an audience doesn't care about all that, it only cares if it like the move.
That's a key point: I like big dumb action movies. I don't care whether the protagonists and antagonists are white, black or aquamarine with purple polka dots; I care whether the explosions are big and loud enough.
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In this thread, no. Offline, yes, absolutely; several congresscritters have even proposed bills to that effect.
Citation needed.
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Citation needed.
Probably best left uncited, as they'll be the sort of silly thing that gets proposed as part of some sort of silly grandstanding to try to look good to constituents and/or lobbyists, but which has no chance of actually getting near being considered by the whole house, and where the proposer knew this before proposing it. IOW, silly political shit that should be ignored by one and all.
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Yeah well, it's also hard to cite things that don't exist.
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Someone else that gets my point.
Pavlich reports that all the Star Wars and Lord of the Rings films
failed the Bechdel test, while Hunger Games: Catching Fire passed.
But the Star Wars and the Lord of the Rings series are expansive,
imaginative, and inspiring films while The Hunger Games presents an
immature view of life saturated in sullen hatred and adolescent
resentment. Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/phi-beta-cons/383609/affirmative-action-film-carol-iannoneDivergent also passes.
Well, at least we have more diverse movies.
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I can't seem to shake the feeling that a lot of people are either taking the Bechdel Test way, way too seriously, or they're not taking it seriously enough...
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I can't seem to shake the feeling that people don't want to be the change they want to see, or pay for the change. They just want it to happen at someone else's expense.
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Some people just don't care about the change.
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I'm just:
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Expressing disappointment that movie producers don't give a shit and despite living in LA are somehow significantly more racist than the rest of the country and,
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Pointing out that the financial argument for not importing more foreign films isn't really there, considering it can be done very well for less than the cost of a Sci-Fi Original Picture.
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Your points are valid ones, and just go to show that there are
s in industries other than ours.
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Expressing disappointment that movie producers don't give a shit and despite living in LA are somehow significantly more racist than the rest of the country and,
Filed Under: Fox Butterfield, is that you?
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Ok, both of your links seem to be the exact same type of press criticism promoted by Fark, so I'm way ahead of you there.
But I have no idea what you're getting at here. To which I'm sure you'll reply, "well obviously!" To which I'll reply, "well, you typed it, so I assume you're trying to communicate something," to which
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Ok, both of your links seem to be the exact same type of press criticism promoted by Fark, so I'm way ahead of you there.
I have no clue what you're talking about here.
But I have no idea what you're getting at here. To which I'm sure you'll reply, "well obviously!" To which I'll reply, "well, you typed it, so I assume you're trying to communicate something," to which
I'm not sure why you'd think rich lefty white people who live in LA would be less racist than the rest of the country. So I threw out a quick Taranto joke and took the time to include links so the interested could follow along.
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I have no clue what you're talking about here.
I'm actually surprised you don't read Fark, or at least haven't read the book, "It's Not News, It's Fark!" (Which is getting kind of dated, but is still good.)
Especially if you're interested in the wiki links you've shat here. Fark's all about making fun of mass media laziness.
I'm not sure why you'd think rich lefty white people who live in LA would be less racist than the rest of the country.
I guess? I think the problem is "the rest of the country" includes States that have, for example, passed laws allowing business owners to legally discriminate against homosexuals, while West Coast States are generally about 20-25 years ahead of the rest of the country in "progressive-ness."
I guess I'm aware that LA-dwellers are pretty racist against Mexicans, so that's true. Well whatever; it wasn't a speech to Congress, it's a post in a dumb forum.
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I guess? I think the problem is "the rest of the country" includes States that have, for example, passed laws allowing business owners to legally discriminate against homosexuals, while West Coast States are generally about 20-25 years ahead of the rest of the country in "progressive-ness."
That's a big old non sequitur if ever there was one.
Nevertheless, there's tons of racism and racist assumptions in Progressive ideas. Which is not at all new. Or particularly hidden, which is why it's kind of amusing (to me) when someone notices an example (such as Hollywood).
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Ok well next time maybe just use your words the first time around instead of just linking to wiki articles.
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Yes, then we can have a little variety in your carping, as you BITCH about how I ruin jokes by explaining them.
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Oh, was that a joke?
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Are you joking?
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Fortunately these people don't get the light of day in Hollywood, but I can't avoid them in the videogame industry. It's everywhere in every videogame forum or chat.
Besides, when making a videogame, you don't have casting concerns -- the one thing that causes practical problems with making a richly diverse set of characters in your work has ceased to exist
So why do video game makers still go "default white"? (Unless you're Squad, ofc, who came up with the most adorable race of little green men you'll ever see :D Go Kerbals!)If people start paying for diversity, then Hollywood will catch on and search through the right channels for good talent, but that takes time. People don't like things taking time when they want to act as activists, because they want that immediate satisfaction for their fake concerns.
Relatively none of these people want to start organizations to volunteer to train or search for talent. Or do things that promote positive change.
No, they prefer to point a loaded political gun.
Yeah; the one thing SJWs can't stand is people who are in search of practical solutions to practical problems...
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So why do video game makers still go "default white"?
A combination of tradition, inertia, and lack of creativity, methinks
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Unless you're Squad, ofc, who came up with the most adorable race of little green men you'll ever see
adorable AND enthusiastic!
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They probably like to make what they are, a lot of the time, because that's what they most identify with. Kind of like how all the final fantasy characters have asian features.
Unless they use aliens. Or orcs. Or anthropomorphic animals.
Personally, I'm going for robots, which are underrepresented in western video games!
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Unless they use aliens. Or orcs. Or anthropomorphic animals.
All of which conveniently have American accents (when dubbed in English anyway)
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racism and racist assumptions in Progressive ideas
They can't succeed without our white-knight help.
Women successes are entirely due to the efforts of keyboard warrior feminists posting on youtube/facebook/reddit, whether the succeeding woman worked hard for where she is.
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All of which conveniently have American accents (when dubbed in English anyway)
I'd think a Scottish brogue would be quite befitting for a werewolf... ;)
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the one thing that causes practical problems with making a richly diverse set of characters in your work has ceased to exist
Oh, I can hear it now.
Why did you use an all white voice-acting cast for a videogame with majority black characters?
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Why did you use an all white voice-acting cast for a videogame with majority black characters?
If the answer is anything other than 'They were the best VAs for the job', then it would be a problem.
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Yeah; the one thing SJWs can't stand is people who are in search of practical solutions to practical problems...
Because if the problem is solved, they are no longer needed.
They'd rather turn the problem into a ghost with microaggressions and sexism that people are unaware and can't change without their expert psycho-analysis, so they can continue getting attention for their first-world problems.
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then it would be a problem
I agree.
But even whenever you have insurmountable evidence that they are a better voice actor, due to more clarity, fitting the character better, or fit the budget. Especially when they actually emulate an ethnic voice. You get lambasted because someone on the internet found a minority voice actor with a history. "Why didn't you pick him?"
It's especially hilarious when the answer is, because that guy is a AAA movie actor and we didn't have the budget to hire Morgan Freeman.
No, the closest that the population at large is satisfied as a way to measure merit, is to simply have a minimum employment count.
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I've never heard an orc who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent, except from Blizzard?
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I've never heard
an orca villian who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent, except from Blizzard?FTFY.
well.... not all of them, but it's a surprisingly pervasive trope among american creators.
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But the thing is, I immediately thought of Comstock when you said that.
The trope isn't usually just that they're British though; that's simply the cheapest way to make someone look posh, which is the kind of villain everyone loves.
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Also, these people are who I blame for the fact that there will never be another Darkstalkers, and the closest we'll ever get is occasional returns of characters in
<insert series/company>Vs. CapcomBecause apparently using ancient mythological creatures like succubi is offensive. Because demons reflect on human women. In the future, the only kind of visually distinctive cast will only be so because they are all from different continents.
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well.... not all of them, but it's a surprisingly pervasive trope among american creators.
It seems to be a combination of Hollywood treating intelligence as distrustful (and the stereotypical English accent is seen as highly intelligent), and a hangover from the War of Independence.
