Parms Anyone? [Rant]
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I'm hoping that someone can correct me on this because, clearly, I'm in the minority in my little area of my professional world.
Say you have a script that you pass command line switches to. AKA Parameters.
Now, internal to said script you have variables that store those passed values. You'd, of course, want to call them out as being parameters - $param1,$server_param, etc. because you passed them in as parameters. And in your docs, you'd say "Pass the following parameters:" because that's what they are.
Well, I'm apparently wrong. They're called parms.
Variable names, docs, you name it. All through our organization.
Now I'm hungry...but does anybody else call parameters "parms" and I'm dealing with a regional-US lingual pop vs soda vs coke battle here?
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I've never heard them called "parms" before. Maybe it was supposed to be "params" and someone typo'd or got autocowrecked.
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i've seen parameters occasionally shortened verbally to
parms
but never in writing. it's usually shortened toparams
when writing.also you've made me hungry now too.
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Not args?
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i've seen parameters occasionally shortened verbally to
parms
but never in writing. it's usually shortened toparams
when writing.
You spend your time around some weird people; normal people just sayargs
. I also just sayargs
.
@accalia said:also you've made me hungry now too.
*looks at desk*
*sees six fig rolls*
…I think I'm OK
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I've seen and used both
params
andargs
.Personally, I say
args
/arguments
if it's something passed to a function andparams
/parameters
if it's something that comes from a config file or is, for example, passed through an URL or from another process.parms
I never heard of, not in programming, and not in relation to food (then again, ESL).
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You spend your time around some weird people
obviously. i spend a lot of time here, no?
normal people just say args. I also just say args.
when shortening the word "arguments" absolutely. some people/languages prefer parameters though (i see params most often in SQL integrations)
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How odd, just this morning I'm working on porting code that has this in it:
Dim Parms() As String = CallResponse.Split("|") Dim LoginToken As String = Parms(1) Dim LoginURL As String = Parms(2)
Personally, I've seen both, but I always do
params
.
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parms I never heard of, not in programming, and not in relation to food (then again, ESL).
"Parmesan" is often shortened to "parm".
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The code base I work with uses parms in place of params.
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@trwtfbot using parms
Never heard of that before, glad I haven't. That's just silly.
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using parms is TRWTF
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parms
is a new one.params
or more oftenargs
is what I'm used to, like most people.
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Same here
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I'm wondering if it isn't regional, I've worked at two places and they both used parms (and the one I currently work at uses both parms and params...)
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Well, I'm apparently wrong. They're called parms.
I've never heard parms before in my life.
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Not args?
I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago. At least, I never see it any more... which is good because it's a really weird metaphor. (Am I trying to convince the function to work? Like... I have to argue with it? Can it argue back? Huh?)
I don't like terminology that requires anthropomorphizing bits of code. It's just confusing as hell. A function or CLI command isn't a person, you don't need to use arguments to convince it to do something.
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I see this a lot, and it bugs me to no end. They are parAms, not parms.
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Well, I'm apparently wrong. They're called parms.
I also hate parms.
No idea why they don't always get called params for short. I assume pwn-style typo made it prevalent.
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I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago.
People prefer that the code is agreeable.
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Google: parms programming
About 83,700 results (0.28 seconds)Google: params programming
About 476,000 results (0.39 seconds)Google: parameters programming
About 145,000,000 results (0.32 seconds)Google: args programming
About 1,020,000 results (0.33 seconds)Google: arguments programming
About 67,800,000 results (0.35 seconds)
Filed Under: So screw everything/everyone that uses/says parms.
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*looks at desk*
*sees six fig rolls*Read this as "six-figure rolls." Spent 3-4 seconds trying to figure out wtf this meant before .
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sees six fig rolls
I'd rather be hungry
parms I never heard of, not in programming, and not in relation to food
Ditto, and I'm a native English speaker
I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago.
I always thought "arguments" is what you call them in relation to the method signature, and "parameters" is the actual variables passed in. i.e. in:void DoThings(string theString){/*...*/} ... DoThings(myString)
theString is the argument of the method, myString is the parameter passed in when you call it
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Me, I do
parms
whenever I'm writing in languages that useparams
as a reserved keyword (C#, for one). Of course, another way to work around that (again, in C# at least) is to prefix with@
(e.g.,@params
).Man, I haven't had veal Parmigiana in forever...
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I always thought "arguments" is what you call them in relation to the method signature,
It's normal terminology in math, so it's an obvious thing to use in relation to programming.
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Personally, I say args / arguments if it's something passed to a function and params / parameters if it's something that comes from a config file or is, for example, passed through an URL or from another process.
I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago.
theString is the argument of the method, myString is the parameter passed in when you call it
Wait a second, in
function A(x) { ... } A(1);
x is a parameter and 1 is an argument.
I can't believe I had to explain CS101 here
Just for reference because I know blakey will bitch about this:
This is from the Lord Almighty Microsoft!
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I can't believe I had to explain CS101 here
I never studied CS officially. I was also trying to work out if I had them the wrong way round when I was writing that. Not that it matters, any developer capable of holding down a job should be capable of working out what you mean from context, whether you say arguments or parameters
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It's normal terminology in math, so it's an obvious thing to use in relation to programming.
Yup, and the usage comes from linguistics, where transitive verbs take arguments -- i.e., direct objects. The mathematical usage exactly mirrors the linguistic usage.
Actually, I'll take that back. I can't track down a reference. It could be that the linguists borrowed it from mathematicians, via Frege and the other logicists. This seems more plausible, since Gompertz used 'argument' in 1859, but there aren't any linguistic references until 1955 or so.
Edit:
From what I've managed to track down, it appears that the computer science usage was borrowed from mathematics via Fregean logicism, but was basically introduced to mathematics by constructivists, who require mathematical objects to be "constructed." As a practical matter, in their view, functions and proofs are equivalent. A proof is a function that takes an argument (i.e., a sequence of logical objects) and returns an argument (a sequence of logical objects) that implies the theorem it proves.So @lakeybrat is not only wrong about the "metaphor", he's 150 years behind.
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I don't like terminology that requires anthropomorphizing bits of code.
It doesn't. Most people writing code understand what an argument in that context is.
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Are we actually having an argument about arguments?
Talk about meta...
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I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago
Really? It's still widely used in my experience. <Which counts for nothing because you hate me
@blakeyrat said:Am I trying to convince the function to work?
Do words only have one definition in your world? <Of course they do, because your way is the One True Wayâ„¢
@blakeyrat said:I don't like terminology that requires anthropomorphizing bits of code
Then take it up with the mathematicians; the term's borrowed from them. <And you'll now call me a liar and/or an idiot, because you can't face the prospect that I'm right
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Talk about meta...
In sidebar? Again? Where are the mods and why aren't they doing their job?
Filed under: Posted from my Linux keyboard, I think that covers all of them and this thread can now be safely perused without continuing meme danger
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Now I'm hungry...but does anybody else call parameters "parms" and I'm dealing with a regional-US lingual pop vs soda vs coke battle here?
The people at my company do that, and I have no idea why. (Actually, I do have an idea, and it's a , of course, but probably not worth passing on.)
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I have seen "parms" used before, but I would normally use "params".
Although this thread has given me the urge to use "parmas".
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@blakeyrat said:
I think the term "arguments" went out-of-use decades ago.
theString is the argument of the method, myString is the parameter passed in when you call it
Wait a second, in
function A(x) { ... } A(1);
x is a parameter and 1 is an argument.
<small>I can't believe I had to explain CS101 here</small>
Just for reference because I know blakey will bitch about this:
This is from the Lord Almighty Microsoft!
Sigh. It depends on the language. Pascal would callx
a "formal parameter", and1
an "actual parameter". The normal usage in the C world (caused by K&R themselves, I think) is the parameter/argument thing. Others? YMMV.And returning to the topic: I've seen "parms" used, but I wouldn't play one on TV.
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It's leetspeak for programmers:
Params -> Parms
Object -> Obj
Class -> Cls
Type -> Ty
List -> Lst
Dictionary -> Dict
Pointer -> Ptr
Handle -> Hndl or Hdl or Hnd (do decide already!)And so much more.
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Object -> Obj
Class -> Cls
Dictionary -> Dict
Pointer -> Ptr
Handle -> Hndl or Hdl or Hnd (do decide already!)
Those are OK.
@CreatedToDislikeThis said:Params -> Parms
Type -> Ty
List -> Lst
No. Just. No.
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(Hint: the ones you're not okay with are the ones not constantly drilled into your head until you accept them without a second look.)
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I always thought "arguments" is what you call them in relation to the method signature, and "parameters" is the actual variables passed in. i.e. in:
Blakey is pretending that definition 1b is the only possible interpretation of the word argument and that no other possible definition, especially definition 6, could possibly exist.
GIBBERISH
You misspelt LIAR.
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Class -> Cls
No can do, I'm only a lowly TL3, to clear the contents of your
screenpost I'd have to be TL4+Type -> Ty
You're welcome.
Filed under: Yes, I'm slightly more than usual insane right now, why do you ask?
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Please, r331 1337 programmers use clazz for Class
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TRWTF is illustrating a rant about parms with a picture of a parma.
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You misspelled klazz
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Also, your outrage is at least 11 years late.
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Who eats that much vomit-flavoured cheese that they need to abbreviate it? I like the stuff, but I've never got tired of saying "esan".
The first time I heard "parm" was around 1997 when I was modding Quake. The engine uses that name and so does the official gamecode.