Of vim and other text editor hackery



  • @Gaska said:

    It lacks the "when I press D, it simply puts the letter d after the cursor, always" feature.
    To be fair, so did Community Server.


    Filed under: FUCKING HELL WHY DOES IT DELETE TWO CHARACTERS WHEN I PRESS BACKSPACE ONCE?



  • @aliceif said:

    Blakeyrat takes major offence to how its menus work.

    No; I take offense because they don't work, and "menus" are a very very basic technology that's been perfected since about 1985. How the fuck do you even get them wrong? How the fuck do people just look past such a basic error?

    BTW, Audacity is using the exact same "menus don't work right" open source shitty GUI library. Whatever one it is.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @blakeyrat said:

    How the fuck do people just look past such a basic error?

    I honestly never click that menu. I do all my file operations from Explorer. Every time I need to go in that menu I go undefined and then forget about it until the next time I click on it.



  • And yet THE MENU IS STILL FUCKING BROKEN! REGARDLESS OF HOW OFTEN YOU USE IT! SHOCKING REVELATIONS FOR REALLY FUCKING STUPID PEOPLE!



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    To be fair, so did Community Server.

    Are you trying to imply that CS is the Vim of forum software?

    @blakeyrat said:

    No; I take offense because they don't work, and "menus" are a very very basic technology that's been perfected since about 1985. How the fuck do you even get them wrong? How the fuck do people just look past such a basic error?

    I guess I'm lucky I don't care about aesthetics.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    You asked how I look past it, so I told you 🙂

    It's definitely fucking broken, not contending that.



  • I am now tempted to install Notepad++ on my work computer just to see how broken its menus are, but I’d have to run it under Wine so I don’t think it would be a fair test 😛


  • area_deu

    It's not just aesthetics.
    It's also about being able to look at multiple menus easily - and menus should never cover the menu bar.



  • @VinDuv said:

    I am now tempted to install Notepad++ on my work computer just to see how broken its menus are, but I’d have to run it under Wine so I don’t think it would be a fair test

    Under Wine, it crashes.

    @aliceif said:

    It's also about being able to look at multiple menus easily

    I don't have multiple mice, so I guess this doesn't apply to me. Unless you mean something else than "open multiple drop-downs at once".

    @aliceif said:

    and menus should never cover the menu bar

    Screenshot, please? I have a serious difficulty imagining what you mean.


  • BINNED

    @Gaska said:

    Screenshot, please? I have a serious difficulty imagining what you mean.

    Now I'm confused as well...


  • area_deu

    finally.

    Had to close all the tabs and delete my history first.


  • BINNED

    @aliceif said:

    zjkrzjkt

    Wut? Oh, placeholder... In any case, NOREPRO:

    Maybe they fixed it? EDIT: No, It was just too low, ignore me.

    @aliceif said:

    Had to close all the tabs and delete my history first.

    :wt ... Never mind, Discourse...



  • It was fun watching you writing the post LIVE. Anyway, the problem only appears if you put the window fully in the lower half of screen, and happen to misclick on the menu bar, and the workaround is trivial. Yes, it's awful. Yes, it shouldn't be like that. No, it's not a deal breaker.

    After spending some time with a language that doesn't allow returning values from functions, you start to think differently.


  • SockDev

    @Gaska said:

    After spending some time with a language that doesn't allow returning values from functions

    undefined

    what language is that?


  • area_deu

    Have you ever had a screen with low vertical resolution?
    Have you ever had a full file history?


  • area_deu

    @Onyx said:

    :wt ... Never mind, Discourse...

    Actually, the history of my text editor.


  • BINNED

    @accalia said:

    what language is that?

    I know of at least one, but I think I bashed it enough already and should cut it some slack...

    AEL, old conf subs would at least set a variable named GOSUB_RETVAL...

    @aliceif said:

    Actually, the history of my text editor.

    Oh. Could've used a different menu for demonstration purposes, maybe? Now I'll feel bad if it turns out you were using that...



  • @accalia said:

    what language is that?

    TTCN. You probably never heard of it. Good for you. It also doesn't have global variables, so no easy workaround.

    @aliceif said:

    Have you ever had a screen with low vertical resolution?

    Yes, thirteen years ago.

    @aliceif said:

    Have you ever had a full file history?

    I don't use "File" menu at all, if that's what you're asking.


  • Fake News

    @aliceif said:

    finally.<img src="/uploads/default/18786/c092e655d3191c4f.png" width="690" height="431">

    Had to close all the tabs and delete my history first.

    I was wondering what your problem was, the "File" menu button itself is not obstructed at all in your screenshot. Move your window higher up until the menu is shown at the bottom but covering the menu bar. Clicking on the File menu is then still not a problem though, because the File menu button can be clicked again to close it.

    It's only when no menu is open, you click on the Edit menu and then move to the File menu that you get real trouble because now the menu covers the menu bar as well as the File menu button.

    To be honest though, I've never noticed this before now. Just don't use it on a low resolution?



  • What's the confusion? Long menus cover up the menu bar. That's bad and wrong and prevents the user from easily scrubbing left and right along the menu bar. This is something EVERYBODY had right in 1985.

    Somehow some open source developing retard got it wrong, its been like a decade, and it's STILL broken.


  • BINNED

    @blakeyrat said:

    What's the confusion? Long menus cover up the menu bar.

    Which is hard to reproduce if you just installed it, don't have a dozen of history entries and you opened it either fullscreen or in top half of the screen on a full HD display. Hence, confusion, because when I initially just clicked around I could not reproduce the issue.


  • area_deu

    This post is deleted!

  • area_deu

    He posted a screenshot of how it looks like in Audacity in the thread I linked to where blakeyrat elaborated about what pisses him off about Notepad++ and Audacity's menus.



  • How the fuck are people getting this wrong!? It's insane.

    This is like Ford building a car, in 2015, where both the blinkers are on the left side. It's bonkers.


  • area_deu

    Seriously, I need to stop taking screenshots.



  • @aliceif said:

    Seriously, I need to stop taking screenshots.

    Ooh, what did you leave in?


  • area_deu

    @blakeyrat said:

    It's insane.

    QFT.
    Also, they (LINQPad) got context menus all wrong. They appear on MouseDown, not MouseUp.


  • BINNED

    @aliceif said:

    He posted a screenshot of how it looks like in Audacity in the thread I linked to where blakeyrat elaborated about what pisses him off about Notepad++ and Audacity's menus.

    Ah, I tried expanding the quote and saw nothing, didn't know there were actually screenshots further down.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What's the confusion? Long menus cover up the menu bar. That's bad and wrong and prevents the user from easily scrubbing left and right along the menu bar. This is something EVERYBODY had right in 1985.

    And this is why I was confused - I never suspected anything might get this wrong. Also, I've never ran into this issue myself.



  • @Gaska said:

    Are you trying to imply that CS is the Vim of forum software?

    CS is the Discourse of forum software?



  • @aliceif said:

    finally.
    Had to close all the tabs and delete my history first.

    I've only had one coffee so far this morning... I'm still not seeing exactly what's wrong with that menu? Anyone want to spell it out for me? (Or tell me I am literally made of stupid...)



  • @Gaska said:

    And this is why I was confused - I never suspected anything might get this wrong.

    I KNOW RITE!?



  • The menu covers the menu bar, so if you wanted to go to Edit (for example), you'd have to cancel the menu completely before you could click it rather than just moving the mouse to it.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I KNOW RITE!?

    So why you made that other post? You're confusing me.



  • Looks like Audacity uses GTK. I don't know about N++. In my Audacity I get a scrolling menu that does not cover the menu bar. I just installed it so maybe it was fixed recently?



  • It's not impossible.

    It's more likely it's broken on Windows but ok on Lunixes.


  • SockDev

    On Windows it looks like it uses the normal Windows shell menus, so no idea why it's so broken…

    Edit: Interesting… if you open a menu that displays either all above or below, then roll onto one that is broken, it hides the bit of the menu bar you just rolled over. However, if you open that menu first, is displays alongside the menu bar item instead of over it undefined



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Edit: Interesting… if you open a menu that displays either all above or below, then roll onto one that is broken, it hides the bit of the menu bar you just rolled over. However, if you open that menu first, is displays alongside the menu bar item instead of over it

    Yay, two wrong broken behaviors in one!

    Again, I would like to remind everybody that pull-down menu technology was perfected by 1985.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Again, I would like to remind everybody that pull-down menu technology was perfected by 1985.
    Except on Mac OS, where if you held it open you were freezing the rest of the system, plus all other AppleTalk devices on the entire network.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    You mean like excel, where if you've accidentally clicked one extra time on a cell before switching to explorer to open another file, it seems to hang forever, not opening the other workbook, because it's waiting on your edit?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Except on Mac OS, where if you held it open you were freezing the rest of the system, plus all other AppleTalk devices on the entire network.

    WAT?

    Oh! I see! That's awesomely dumb-witted in implementation. I wish I'd known when I was at college; I'd have been the most annoying “innocent” person ever. 😈


  • area_pol

    @Gaska said:

    I just realized no one here has said why exactly Notepad++ is shit.

    1. Not possible to search for newlines with regex (maybe it's fixed now, but too late) and altogether ugly and crippled search feature.
    2. Plugins stop working after update.
    3. Impossible to work with large files. Where large means something like 400MB, not over 2GB.

    And more, but those 3 things are enough for me.


  • SockDev

    1. You used to be able to do that. But at some point in the last 3 years they removed it.

    2. I solve this by not using any plugins in the first place. None of the plugins have ever seemed especially useful.

    3. I'll give you point 3. But I'd gently suggest that 400MB+ files are into Doing It Wrong territory...


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @MrL said:

    Not possible to search for newlines with regex

    Huh?

    Oh wait you said regex mode:



  • @MrL said:

    Not possible to search for newlines with regex (maybe it's fixed now, but too late)

    Just for the record, it is.

    @MrL said:

    altogether ugly and crippled search feature.

    Agreed. But it's better than most "lightweight" "editors" I've used. Also,

    @MrL said:

    Plugins stop working after update.

    Cannot reproduce.

    @MrL said:

    Impossible to work with large files. Where large means something like 400MB, not over 2GB.

    Few editors can do that. That's why I was using Visual Studio to edit my Crusader Kings save files.

    @Arantor said:

    You used to be able to do that. But at some point in the last 3 years they removed it.

    And apparently added back. N++ 6.5.1 here.

    @Arantor said:

    I solve this by not using any plugins in the first place. None of the plugins have ever seemed especially useful.

    ScrollPastEOF is nice one. There's been another one I'm using, but I forgot which one it is, and it's on my other machine.

    @Arantor said:

    I'll give you point 3. But I'd gently suggest that 400MB+ files are into Doing It Wrong territory...

    It's not my fault PDS is Doing It Wrong™.


  • SockDev

    At least you're not stuck with co-workers that use their own choice of editor which insists on using spaces instead of tabs (you have to turn on 'real tabs') and lets you scroll past EOL, though I can see the value to scroll past EOF in a way I never could with EOL.


  • BINNED

    @Gaska said:

    Few editors can do that. That's why I was using Visual Studio to edit my Crusader Kings save files.

    Indeed. Even terminal editors choke on this at times, so even removing all the GUI bits it has to load and all the pretty syntax highliting is often still not enough.

    @Arantor said:

    At least you're not stuck with co-workers that use their own choice of editor which insists on using spaces instead of tabs (you have to turn on 'real tabs')

    FUCK THAT SHIT! Fucking spaces bullshit, it's just a PITA all around, I still haven't seen a single valid reason to do that.


  • SockDev

    The main reason PSPad is a thing is because it has a built-in FTP client. I shit you not, that was a major plus point for half our dev team.



  • @Arantor said:

    it has a built-in FTP client


  • SockDev

    Plugin != built-in

    In any case, it's 20-fucking-15 and we're still using FTP. To upload our software to our servers... which serve content to clients via SSL because security.


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