Now testing civilized mute on meta



  • @boomzilla said:

    I'm sure I'm too close to the situation to judge, because it just seems like this time you're the one poking the bear.

    Ok, first of all: if the moderator is a "bear" that's a fucking problem.

    Secondly, I didn't mention PJH in this topic ONCE. He's being a dick for absolutely no reason.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Wow… you totally have the wrong idea…

    I've been here a fuckload longer than you have, I think I know what the DailyWTF forums are about.


  • FoxDev

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh BTW, it's great that in the topic where Boomzilla is defending his not being an asshole mod, there's another asshole mod in here being an asshole. Fuck off, PJH.

    I'm not in a position of power here, and i don't want to be, but if i was i would have slapped your ass with a temp ban for that. I probably would have done it for your "i was bored" comment earlier, but i absolutely would have done it for that.

    If you are going to be an unrepentant asshole here, that's fine. but if your are going to dish it out and complain when people are assholes right back to you that's not cool.

    if you can't take it, don't dish it.


  • BINNED

    @blakeyrat said:

    I would hope EVERYBODY quits a forum where the moderators abuse their powers.

    I was prepared to leave back when Jeff was here telling us all we were Doing It Wrong™ and jeffing posts all over the place. That was abuse. If having your text posts all turn green is the worst thing ever to happen to you, you've had a good life.



  • @accalia said:

    I'm not in a position of power here, and i don't want to be,

    Neither do I, but I do want the people who ARE in a position of power to not be dickholes.

    @accalia said:

    I probably would have done it for your "i was bored" comment earlier, but i absolutely would have done it for that.

    Oh right; in Accalia-land it's illegal to be bored! WTF? Of all the comments I make, "I was bored" would get me banned in this little dystopia you've invented?

    @accalia said:

    If you are going to be an unrepentant asshole here, that's fine. but if your are going to dish it out and complain when people are assholes right back to you that's not cool.

    Attacking me with words is fine; I can use the same words to riposte. Attacking me with mod powers I don't have is unfair and cheating.

    Oh look 37 more "you are not permitted to view the resource" dialogs. Fuck this.


  • FoxDev

    *shrugs*

    I think I'll take my leave of this thread. You, @boomzilla, and @PJH can sort this out between yourselves; I'll be elsewhere, having fun with my fellow forum members.

    I'll leave with one final comment:
    @accalia said:

    if you can't take it, don't dish it.

    Q. F. T.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    if you can't take it, don't dish it.

    You don't bring a gun to a boxing match. And if you do, people (rightly) call you a dickhole. PJH is being a dickhole right now.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    PJH is being a dickhole right now.

    Unlike yourself who is the model poster instead of trolling the forums, because you're bored, and winding everyone up?

    I disagree with your comment by the way.


  • FoxDev

    @blakeyrat said:

    Of all the comments I make, "I was bored" would get me banned in this little dystopia you've invented?

    the comment itself would get you tempbaned? no.

    using it as an excuse for the abuse you were spreading around yesterday? absolutely.

    I have a very short patience for assholes, much shorter than any of our active mods/admins.



  • @PJH said:

    Unlike yourself who is the model poster instead of trolling the forums because you're bored and winding everyone up?

    How is it my fault if other people get wound up? Turn their posts into rainbow colors.

    Look, when I say I'm not telepathic, that also includes the ability to control other people's minds, too. You know what makes me feel really awesome? Being punished for someone else's offense.

    @PJH said:

    I disagree with your comment by the way.

    Oh well why don't you just give me some more essays to read Mr. I'M ThE BEST MODERATOR DERPDPDRPRP


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @blakeyrat said:

    Ok, first of all: if the moderator is a "bear" that's a fucking problem.

    It's quite amazing how consistently you fail to communicate with people.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    How is it my fault if other people get wound up?

    Because you're deliberately doing it. And you continue to do it when you get the reaction you're after.

    Not unlike what you're doing to me now actually.



  • @PJH said:

    Because you're deliberately doing it.

    So?

    If "posting while wound-up" is an offense (and since fucking when?) then it's the poster's fault regardless of what they're replying to.

    @PJH said:

    And you continue to do it when you get the reaction you're after.

    That's because it's funny.

    @PJH said:

    Not unlike what you're doing to me now actually.

    Well you better punish me, because obviously I just used my telepathic powers and forced you to type that.

    Look, if you think what you just did is acceptable, you need to fucking resign. Right now. You are not qualified to moderate shit.


  • BINNED

    @blakeyrat said:

    spazzing-out on that button on all kinds of dumb posts just because you get "rewarded" by increased access by hitting it.

    Bollocks. It is only a requirement for TL3 and time and time again we see that attendance is a higher barrier for getting TL3 then clicking the ❤-button.



  • For what it's worth, I agree with him. Words are just words, and even though turning text green is minor unimportant bullshit, it's on the wrong side of the mod powers line.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    In case you hadn't noticed (or require a refresh in your browser) that's been reverted.



  • Oh! Well in that case, it's ok if you are a dickhole as long as you undo it as soon as people point out that you're a dickhole!

    No. The offense is already made, the trust is already gone.


    I have to ask, though, just out of intellectual curiosity: what the hell did you think was going to happen when you thought up this little prank? Did you really think changing my posts green was a good way to get me to read two links?



  • No, I see it's back to normal now, but the part that doesn't sit right with me isn't the green text, it's the fact that you did it in the first place.


  • BINNED

    @blakeyrat said:

    what the hell did you think was going to happen when you thought up this little prank?

    I bet he was just bored.



  • All rage aside, marking certain posters by color could be a nice way to visually browse through topics.
    Good idea @PJH. I might make a little tampermonkey script for that.

    @blakeyrat: How is marking your posts green for a few minutes worse than giving you a whoosh badge or any other thing we do? Relax dude.



  • // ==UserScript==
    // @name         TDWTF colors
    // @namespace    what.thedailywtf.com
    // @version      0.1
    // @description  Change post colors on certain users
    // @author       cartman
    // @match        http://what.thedailywtf.com/**/*
    // @grant        none
    // ==/UserScript==
    
    (function () {
    	var colors = {
    		"17": "green"
    	};
    	
    	var userStyles = Object.keys(colors).map(function (userId) {
    		return '  article[data-user-id="' + userId + '"] { color: ' + colors[userId] + '; }';
    	});
    	var styleHtml = '<style>\n\n'
    		+ userStyles.join('\n')
    		+ '\n\n</style>';
    	$('head').append($(styleHtml));
    })();
    

    Yay!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Yeah; people are communicating "hey I like this", or perhaps, "hey I'm clicking this for some dumb reason completely unrelated to me liking this", or perhaps "I AM A ROBOT I HAVE NO CONSCIOUSNESS I AM PROGRAMMED TO PRESS LIKE BUTTON". With no way to tell which "like" click is which message.

    Unless you go in the likes thread, bots won't like your posts. So, argument invalid.

    Yes, I dislike many things about Discourse too but the likes are a good feature. It gives an approximate indication of how much people enjoyed a particular post. It's not like threads are sorted by likes or anything. Yes, a feature to disable notifications when someone likes your posts would be nice (since most posts have at least one like so it's kinda meaningless), but it's not that big of an annoyance.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    I muted 11 posts to a new topic: CSS change triggers resource error?



  • I'm on Firefox 36 on Windows 8. No errors, just The World Suddenly Changed. Then Changed Back. But I believe the reports of errors; Discourse is a Jenga pile held together by delicate strands of assumptions of how it's being called into, and we violate those assumptions with unnerving regularity here.



  • @KillaCoder said:

    How can a piece of software sealing off a user's own writings unless he jumps through hoops be anything other than arbitrary? Can you honestly answer me, WHY should he need to like others posts to see his own?

    It's a side effect. When you implement permissions, obviously you have to put a if (thread.category.allowedGroup() not in user.groups) return 403 Forbidden somewhere.

    What else do you propose? Showing the threads "frozen" in the same state they were when you were last allowed? That seems like a lot of trouble for such an uncommon case. Showing all your posts disjoint from the rest? Yeah I guess that would be nice, but the "download your own posts" feature probably already includes them.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I gave you a line of reasoning. I guess you're ignoring it. That's fine.

    I don't know what your reasoning is. I see no logical link between "giving likes" and "viewing own content". You haven't told me one?

    @FrostCat said:

    What do you know, it turns out there is, via "download your own posts". Yes, it's disappointing that wasn't available at the time this happened, but since it became available eventually, no permanent harm was done.

    That's better than nothing, still not ideal though, and I'm not sure why people are so against Blakey on this one. It seems a fairly simply and innocent thing, I always favor basic human wants and rights over what software and machines try to force.



  • On another forum I frequent, you click your username, and can click "My Posts", and see everything you've ever posted.

    It's not uncommon, it's not obscure, it's not crazy, to want such a feature here...

    (is it? I'm starting to question my own sanity :P )


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @KillaCoder said:

    I don't know what your reasoning is. I see no logical link between "giving likes" and "viewing own content". You haven't told me one?

    You're reading through a soda straw, I guess. The point of restricted places like The Lounge is a place for constructive community members to post. Liking posts is one measurement of being a constructive member. If you used to be constructive but aren't any more then you can't go into The Lounge.

    I've said all this before.



  • I've seen you say all that before, and I agree with you totally.

    BUT. You should still be able to click your username, click "My Posts", and see everything you've ever written. At no point should the software block your own thoughts and speech. That is just beyond creepy to me.

    This isn't about some asshole being allowed in the nice people club. It's about the asshole being allowed to keep access to his own writings, no matter what the software "thinks" he "should" be doing. (A purely theoretical asshole, I assure you @blakeyrat ;) )



  • OK, I do agree that "My posts" (which you can click and see in your profile) should show all your posts. Does it? I haven't seen any concrete claims of that. But not replies (including posts to threads you started), because they're still in a category you're not allowed in.

    Btw, many forums do ban users from reading. I don't think it's an effective measure, but it exists.


  • Java Dev

    I think in @PJH's recent tests, the download includes posts you cannot see but the "My posts" overview does not.



  • Getting banned or punished for something dickish you DO, fair enough. Getting punished for something you DON'T do seems creepy though. If he doesn't want to use likes, so what? I don't think Facebook starts hiding your friends if you don't like enough things :P


  • kills Dumbledore

    @blakeyrat said:

    If you can provide me some evidence that the motive for most "like" clicks on this forum is people genuinely liking a post

    Anecdotal OK? I like posts because I approve of them. I quite often agree with your points and like the posts. None in this argument so far though



  • @FrostCat said:

    Hell, I think having to give likes is fairly annoying, myself, but those are the rules of the forum.

    The lame, arbitrary, wrong rules ;)

    Again, this doesn't affect me AT ALL but it's still poor, user unfriendly design that I dislike seeing.



  • @boomzilla said:

    The point of restricted places like The Lounge is a place for constructive community members to post.

    Oh, so that is why The Lounge exists...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @KillaCoder said:

    I don't think Facebook starts hiding your friends if you don't like enough things

    Do they have a suggestion box?....


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @jaming said:

    Oh, so that is why The Lounge exists...

    I wondered if someone would notice that. Honestly, I don't know exactly why it exists. That's just my interpretation of it based on what we can observe.

    :discodevsinthemist:


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @KillaCoder said:

    I don't think Facebook starts hiding your friends if you don't like enough things

    Yes and no. Aren't you less likely to see their stuff if you don't?



  • I think the newsfeed is biased towards people you interact with more, at no point are they going to seal anything off though. If you clikc friendname you will see their page, no matter how much or little you liked.

    I'm genuinely interested to know, do you guys not find it very user unfriendly for software to start punishing users for not using it "the right way"? I don't think the software should have any agenda...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    You assholes have never seen me genuinely angry, but now I'm genuinely angry.

    How would we tell? Today looks like any other day, you crank.

    Speaking of which, this seems like the kind of place someone like you belongs: http://www.crank.net/ Sadly, there's not a category there that obviously leaps out as "blakey fits in this one".


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    absolutely no reason.

    Is it time for your Latuda? I hear it makes the hallucinations temporarily go away, too.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    I do want the people who ARE in a position of power to not be dickholes.

    Iterated prisoner's dilemma, baby.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    How is it my fault if other people get wound up?

    Perhaps because you wound them up.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @KillaCoder said:

    I'm genuinely interested to know, do you guys not find it very user unfriendly for software to start punishing users for not using it "the right way"?

    I'm getting stuck on thinking of this as "punishing." I think we've mocked discodevs enough about Doing It Wrong to answer the more general question, though.

    A big part of this comes down to some philosophical questions. Like, how separate is a post from its topic and category. Obviously, blakey and you are arguing that these are not as important as the other stuff.

    But then, posts often contain quotes from other parts of the topic. Should those leak out? They obviously do for the download post, so I'm not sure why they care more about protecting them in the live interface. But then, that's begging the question that they meant for things to be that way.

    More interesting to me is that they apparently show deleted stuff, too, which you can't see anywhere else (unless you're a mod / admin).

    Either way, no one has convinced me that this is a punishment. Not that I'm the arbiter of what is or isn't, but it's close to the heart of this discussion.



  • You are right, it is definitely an opinion thing.

    I don't think it is intended as punishment. I think it's just a side effect of the reward (in this case, getting into the Lounge) That's not an issue at all, I think it's a great idea to reward constructive, liked community members. But I personally can't see how taking away a user's access to their own speech and thoughts can be anything other than a punishment.

    Basically I consider the threads "Discourse property" and have no issue with users being blocked from them (whether by being banned or lacking required levels), but each individual post to be 100% owned by whoever wrote it, and therefore always and forever viewable by that user, whatever else happens.

    For me it comes down to owning your own speech no matter what else happens, and hence why I find it creepy for the software to automatically decide to block you from it, especially when I don't see any logical reason or technical necessity to do so.



  • This is a good example of the kind of thing people trying to "reinvent civilized discourse" should be thinking about, instead of getting obsessed over how "awful" scroll bars are.



  • Fart fart fart fart fart. fart fart fart.

    Fart fart fart fart fart fart, fart fart fart. Fart fart.



  • @KillaCoder said:

    I don't think the software should have any agenda...

    You never read @wood's blog posts about discourse, didn't you?

    This software in particular is all about forcing users to adhere to what he thinks to be "civilized".

    WONTFIX



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Normally, when one person holds an opinion that is not shared by anyone else, it's the one person that is wrong.



  • Lol, I know HE wants it to. I was just surprised the folks on here seemed to agree.


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