Now testing civilized mute on meta
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they use it for a while and then for one reason or another (what reason is irrelevant) are demoted to a non moderator status: obviously they lose access to the moderator stuff. what happense to their posts in the moderator section. some of them could be security related and something that they shouldn't have access too. others could be "secret" chatting.
how do you resolve that. furthermore even if you allow them access to their own posts there how do you solve the issue of cotnext. if they can see their posts/threads, should they be able to see the replies to those posts threads? and if they can't (which is i would argue the correct answer) then what good is it seeing their posts if they can no longer see the larger conversation?
It's fairly simple imo: you keep access to your own posts, always. Because they're yours. By all means block the demoted users from editing or even viewing the threads and other peoples posts, but there should always be a way to view your own posts. Yes, the user would lack context without seeing other folks' posts, but the user has no right to others' posts. If they want to see others' posts, then they DO have to jump through the hoops. I do think you have an inherent right to your own writing however, and honestly believe it borderline crazy to think otherwise.I'm surprised folks here think it's ok to seal people off from their own speech and thoughts, that seems strange and pointless and creepy, and I've never seen it done in other forums either. I don't know why Discourse does it. Generally, there's always a "my posts" list?
Edit: As for security related stuff that they shouldn't see any more, they could easily remember or have screenshotted it. If a guy who "knew too much" became hostile or whatever, that would already necessitate passwords and whatever else he knew being changed. Him viewing an old message he himself wrote, with info he himself knew, wouldn't change that, I think. He's not learning anything new.
or, another analogy, what about in a business? if you work for HR and have documents saved in the HR share for your work and you transfer to Accounting, should you keep access to your HR work?
Those documents belong to the business, they can do what they like with them. Not an applicable analogy imo.
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but there should always be a way to view your own posts
There is: just use the Download My Posts option on your profile page. It even includes deleted posts ;)
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That's good, not ideal though. Would you have to download every single post you've ever made to view one single one? How are they organised, it is easy to find the post you wanted?
Still though, better then having NO access :)
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It's a CSV dump in chrono order; theoretically, it's trivially searchable. Practically, it depends: if you have a couple hundred posts, it's not too bad. However, for users like myself, Cali, Blakey, i.e. those with thousands if not tens of thousands... not so much
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I was thinking as much, it's a quite unsatisfactory solution to what shouldn't even be a problem
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I don't find it an issue myself. But then I'm neither you or Blakey
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It's not an issue for me either, I don't care what I've wrote in the past and would be able to access it any case because I enjoy jumping through the like hoops.
I still empathise with Blakey though, and agree with his position. Just because it doesn't affect me personally, doesn't mean I agree with it.
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I still empathise with Blakey though, and agree with his position
I do understand where he's coming from; I think the scale of the reaction against him isn't so much because we think he's wrong (some do, some don't), more that we think he's an arsehole ;)
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Yeah I got that too :)
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It's not like they changed the number of missions you need to fly in order to get sent home or anything
but if you want to get sent home read: away from Discourse, that's proof you're sane and can't be sent home by reason of insanity
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"Download Archive of My Posts" includes deleted posts in threads you can't see anymore.
To be fair, that's most of the stuff in the DB on meta.d.
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So yes, he does own his writings.
Yes, copyright, but not in the sense that he can force others to reproduce them, which was the real point. But, thank you:
(ii) terminate or deny access to and use of the Website to any individual or entity for any reason, in The Daily WTF’s sole discretion.
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Requiring him to have given X amount of likes to see his posts is INCREDIBLY arbitrary.
No, it makes a lot of sense in what it's trying to accomplish. That's the opposite of arbitrary.
I do not agree with not giving Likes, but I will defend to the death Blakeyrat's right to be a scary antisocial man
Let's put that to the test! Actually, I'm fine with him not clicking the buttons, too. He just needs to STFU about it.
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That's good, not ideal though. Would you have to download every single post you've ever made to view one single one? How are they organised, it is easy to find the post you wanted?
It's probably actually easier to download and do it offline than try to find it in the "native" disoface.
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So, just so I'm absolutely clear here: hypothetically speaking, if I lost my TL3 status, but wanted to get copies of all my posts in the Lounge, then I can download them and read them to my heart's content?
Yes. Verified as working.
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No, it makes a lot of sense in what it's trying to accomplish. That's the opposite of arbitrary.
How can a piece of software sealing off a user's own writings unless he jumps through hoops be anything other than arbitrary? Can you honestly answer me, WHY should he need to like others posts to see his own?Let's put that to the test! Actually, I'm fine with him not clicking the buttons, too. He just needs to STFU about it.
Maybe, he's still right though.
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It's probably actually easier to download and do it offline than try to find it in the "native" disoface.
If you had to actually search, than yes, if you remembered what thread though I think it'd be easier to do it on here.
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Can you honestly answer me, WHY should he need to like others posts to see his own?
He doesn't.
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How can a piece of software sealing off a user's own writings unless he jumps through hoops be anything other than arbitrary?
That's a non-sequitur. I already explained how it isn't arbitrary.
Maybe, he's still right though.
Although it's now confirmed that he's not even right on the facts, let alone the ethical or moral reasoning.
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You told me it isn't. You didn't explain anything. This piece of software won't allow you to do X unless you first do (the completely unrelated) Y. That's arbitrary. I repeat, if my phone hid texts unless I first looked at my calendar, that'd be equally silly.
The "download all your posts in a giant block" thing is a poor solution. Just show the guy his posts.
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You told me it isn't. You didn't explain anything.
I gave you a line of reasoning. I guess you're ignoring it. That's fine.
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Hypothetically speaking, if you were banned from a forum, would you expect to still be able to see your posts in that forum?
I already answered that, but yes of course. The point of banning a person is to prevent them from posting, not prevent them from reading stuff that was already in their brain once anyway.
You are lying; clearly it is important, by how vociferously you choose to defend your position.
No I'm just bored.
Kept people amused for an hour or so, apparently. And somehow it got rekindled by your idiocy this morning, too.
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No, it makes a lot of sense in what it's trying to accomplish.
No; it's ridiculous. I like lots of posts on this forum, otherwise I wouldn't still be visiting it. I just don't press a little button saying I like it. Meanwhile, dozens of people are just spazzing-out on that button on all kinds of dumb posts just because you get "rewarded" by increased access by hitting it. Hell there's one idiot who just "likes" everything I post, no matter what. (Or used to, seems to be gone recently...)
It's not a proxy for anything.
It's probably actually easier to download and do it offline than try to find it in the "native" disoface.
I agree; it's a good thing we shut down the old forums and moved all its posts here! Or attempted to and failed and now they're just gone!
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Hell there's one idiot who just "likes" everything I post, no matter what.
I remember hearing that may have been a bot; I think it was taken down.
@blakeyrat said:I agree; it's a good thing we shut down the old forums and moved all its posts here! Or attempted to and failed and now they're just gone!
Some of them are here; there'll be another attempt tomorrow. Having said that, I'm with you on the whole 'make the old one read-only and leave it up' thing.
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but there should always be a way to view your own posts.
What do you know, it turns out there is, via "download your own posts". Yes, it's disappointing that wasn't available at the time this happened, but since it became available eventually, no permanent harm was done.
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It's not a proxy for anything.
Clicking the button is a form of communication in most of the forum. Just because you think it doesn't mean anything doesn't make it so.
I agree; it's a good thing we shut down the old forums and moved all its posts here! Or attempted to and failed and now they're just gone!
That doesn't make sense. It's definitely easier to search here than the old forums. Google works and the discosearch actually finds stuff these days. The one exception to that might be if you had every post saved in your email like @PJH did with the old forums.
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I remember hearing that may have been a bot; I think it was taken down.
Yeah well, while you dumbfucks are trying to convince me that "likes" are actually useful for some purpose, doing bullshit like that is pretty counter-productive.
Having said that, I'm with you on the whole 'make the old one read-only and leave it up' thing.
Yeah well that ship has sailed. The Google rankings are already rock-bottom after a week of 500 errors. (Which, BTW, very classy way to shut down a service-- just have it serve-up uncaught errors! Dignified.)
So we've already been fucked by Alex's incompetence.
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How can a piece of software sealing off a user's own writings unless he jumps through hoops be anything other than arbitrary?
Because the software was, and is, under development at the time. Apparently the original rules were deemed insufficient by the writers.
Hell, I think having to give likes is fairly annoying, myself, but those are the rules of the forum. Rules can change over time. If it bothered me as much as Blakey claims it bothers him, I'd probably quit the forum, instead of going on an ad-nausium-extended jeremiad about it.
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Clicking the button is a form of communication in most of the forum.
Yeah; people are communicating "hey I like this", or perhaps, "hey I'm clicking this for some dumb reason completely unrelated to me liking this", or perhaps "I AM A ROBOT I HAVE NO CONSCIOUSNESS I AM PROGRAMMED TO PRESS LIKE BUTTON". With no way to tell which "like" click is which message.
That is not useful communication.
Hey, maybe if you morons had supported me when I said "let's delete all the fucking bots" that third meaning would go away and it'd be slightly close to the highly-desired state of "possibly indicative of something maybe".
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Yeah well, while you dumbfucks are trying to convince me that "likes" are actually useful for some purpose, doing bullshit like that is pretty counter-productive.
Agreed. I don't know who was running it, but it's definitely not an action I condone.
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The point of banning a person is to prevent them from posting, not prevent them from reading stuff that was already in their brain once anyway.
Ridiculous. The point of banning someone is to keep them away. Someone gets a restraining order against you, saying you can't be within 500 feet of them, get this, you can't go places they are, even if that includes places you otherwise had access too.
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That is not useful communication
It's extremely useful. You get feedback without a zillion +1 posts. Sure, some of them might be accidental or whatever, but so what?
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Sure, some of them might be accidental or whatever, but so what?
hmm.... one wonders what the S/N ratio is on that communication (outside of /t/1k obviously)
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Is it just me, or have all of Blakey's posts turned green?
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Is it just me, or have all of Blakey's posts turned green?
Not you. I suspect @PJH is having some fun.
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Is it just me, or have all of Blakey's posts turned green?
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It's extremely useful. You get feedback without a zillion +1 posts. Sure, some of them might be accidental or whatever, but so what?
Right; and the feedback is "someone wrote a robot that clicks this button."
How the fuck is that useful as a proxy for anything?
If you can provide me some evidence that the motive for most "like" clicks on this forum is people genuinely liking a post, I might be convinced. I wager it's 90% bot traffic, though.
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Whatever the fuck he's doing it's popping up like 40,000 "you are denied permission to view the requested" whatever error message, you fucking dickholes. Fuck you.
Oh BTW, it's great that in the topic where Boomzilla is defending his not being an asshole mod, there's another asshole mod in here being an asshole. Fuck off, PJH.
HEY YEAH BOOMZILLA I DO HAVE A FUCKING COMPLAINT ABOUT MODERATORS BEING DICKS, it's happening here in real-time.
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Not you. I suspect @PJH is having some fun.
Sorry Blakey, but that is hilarious!I expect @PJH will reverse the change eventually; it's fun while it lasts
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How the fuck is that useful as a proxy for anything?
Jeez...sometimes I wonder why I keep trying to communicate with you. THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING ON. Not for most of them, outside of one particular place.
If you can provide me some evidence that the motive for most "like" clicks on this forum is people genuinely liking a post, I might be convinced. I wager it's 90% bot traffic, though.
Look at the people who are shown as having liked stuff. The bots are usually pretty obvious. There are some people who have automated their personal account in one particular place on here, but that's it, AFAIK.
Just because you're a shit communicator doesn't mean the rest of us are,.
@blakeyrat said:HEY YEAH BOOMZILLA I DO HAVE A FUCKING COMPLAINT ABOUT MODERATORS BEING DICKS
Look, I'm a dick a lot of the time, but not with my powers. You can take up @PJH's stuff with him. That's above my pay grade.
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Stop trolling then.
Trolling is what is DONE on this forum.
This is the joke you think is worth abusing your mod powers and losing all trust in your position as moderator of this forum? Turning my text green?
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Is there a betting pool on when the next ragequit will happen?
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You can take up @PJH's stuff with him. That's above my pay grade.
Oh so you think this is fucking ok? Because it's "above your pay grade", yessir be an abusive dick, let me suck your cock too, while you're at it! Fuck you too.
You assholes have never seen me genuinely angry, but now I'm genuinely angry. This is NOT acceptable. And if you're going to do a retard joke, at least be more creative than making the text green, what the fuck even is that.
Is there a betting pool on when the next ragequit will happen?
I would hope EVERYBODY quits a forum where the moderators abuse their powers. That'll kill this community a shitload faster than Discourse.
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And if you're going to do a retard joke, at least be more creative than making the text green, what the fuck even is that.
I suggest you read the links I posted above.
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I suggest you read the links I posted above.
I suggest you get fucked in the ass by an elephant. I'm not reading anything you post from now on, you piece of shit.
Hey you know a good way to get me to read things? Be an abusing dick to me! BRILLIANT STRATEGY YOU ARE EXPERT AT HUMAN BEHAVIOR!
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Oh so you think this is fucking ok? Because it's "above your pay grade", yessir be an abusive dick, let me suck your cock too, while you're at it! Fuck you too.
It's possible you're right. I'm sure I'm too close to the situation to judge, because it just seems like this time you're the one poking the bear. And maybe this will make people lose trust in @PJH. You're free to make your case , AFAIC.
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There are some people who have automated their personal account in one particular place on here, but that's it, AFAIK.
I did have it on a second thread, but people started to find it annoying, so I stopped; I just automate /t/1000 now.
@blakeyrat said:Trolling is what is DONE on this forum.
Wow… you totally have the wrong idea…
