Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances



  • 13:58: Phone call from London number I let go to voicemail
    13:59: Email:
    "I called earlier today, ... exciting job opportunity... excellent salary ... up to £30,000"

    "Excellent Salary ... up to £30,000"


    "Excellent ... £30,000"

    Considering I am on what I would consider a middling salary for a mid level developer in this area I fancy laughing in this guys face, but his face isn't here, and I am not going to write him an email just to say "I earn more than this already and intend to fight for a salary bump in the next 3 months" I decided to laugh at him here.

    This thread exists to bitch about recruiters sending you emails over a year after you removed your details from the internet and job boards and the like, with jobs that are irrelevant and/or ridiculous. Ranging from "£16,000 salary, 2 years experience minimum in each of C#, Java, C, Python and SQL Server DBA" to "Fantastic local opportunity 600 miles away!" to anything else recruiters spout.



  • I get lots of emails telling me I can make $50,000 a month by doing Internet surveys. Unfortunately I'm not a single mom so I think they missed their target demographic.


  • sockdevs

    @algorythmics said:

    "Excellent Salary ... up to £30,000"

    I'm on £32,000. I wouldn't call it excellent, but it's more than I was on before, and it's comfortable at least :smile:



  • @mott555 said:

    I'm not a single mom

    even if you came up with a few neat/weird tricks no one would give a shit.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I'm on £32,000.

    Buh? After translating that to USD that sounds really low, what all other things do you get from being in the UK that makes up for that.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @locallunatic said:

    what all other things do you get from being in the UK that makes up for that.

    free health care for one



  • @Jaloopa said:

    free health care for one

    Even with my personally inflated health care costs (diabetic) that does not make up for how low that salary is.



  • our housing is a lot less most of the time. Rents here (in the north at least) tend to be £400-£700 ($600 - $1000) per month for flats/appartments or houses up to 3 or 4 bedrooms in quite good condition. On the other hand our other bills and electricals tend to be a lot higher due to the whole psychology of $1 = £1.


  • sockdevs

    @locallunatic said:

    Buh? After translating that to USD that sounds really low, what all other things do you get from being in the UK that makes up for that.

    By UK standards, it's not low. Unless you're in London (I'm in Manchester; it's a lot cheaper :) ).


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    £30k would be a fairly good wage for someone not long out of Uni, first or second proper programming job. That's in the South East, at least, where wages are inflated compared to other places due to the London connection.


  • sockdevs

    @Jaloopa said:

    £30k would be a fairly good wage for someone not long out of Uni, first or second proper programming job. That's in the South East, at least, where wages are inflated compared to other places due to the London connection.

    In the North, a more typical figure would be £18-£22k, maybe £25k if you're really good.



  • Id be happy to pursue it in those circumstances, having had my first software job pay only £17000, and as with every recruiter ever I have been contacted on a basic CVBay google "[c#]" search and then phoned up without actually looking at my CV. There are plenty better recruiter WTFs and I expect to be posting some more soon, but this was the first one that came through, and I found the whole "earlier today = 1 minute ago" thing pretty funny, more than the salary offer, which is a fine offer for people with less experience.

    I just wanted a place to bitch about it, and there wasn't one, so I made one.



  • @Jaloopa said:

    free health care for one

    I'll buy that if the £32,000 is post all tax.

    That said, there's a lot of wiggle room for "mid-level" and regional differences in cost of living.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    In the North, a more typical figure would be £18-£22k, maybe £25k if you're really good.

    This, I went from £17k as my first job 3 months after Uni, to £24k as my second a year later (hurrah for employers fighting over me and bidding wars!) to where I am now 3 years later (a few bumps in between and one further job change) at a good chunk over £30k. I think in the north you would have to work pretty hard to go faster than I have up the pay scale, but I have seen it done.



  • @Jaloopa said:

    free health care for one

    Free health care that I pay National Insurance for?

    :trollface:



  • Sadly it is gross - pre tax salary.

    I think we end up paying a lot less out to the government and other expenses than you guys do, (but I'm not sure of that), but I am pretty sure that housing is the big difference in cost between us, as odd as that sounds what with our media going crazy over house prices and rents and the like



  • My base salary is a little over £33k (I think) - total taxable pay in a year is way over that, not including other benefits I get.

    I've always worked on the rule that if the salary in thousands of pounds is more than years I've been alive, then I'm doing well.



  • @algorythmics said:

    Sadly it is gross - pre tax salary.

    Yes, I was quite aware of that. Which takes the piss out (did I do that right) of the "free" claim.



  • You did, and it does, but lets not fight about healthcare models here! recruiters are the enemy!

    About 30% of my salary gets taken away in the form of student loan repayments, national insurance contributions, and tax, and the rest is all mine, what's it like in the states? I've always wondered because besides housing I could never figure out why the difference for software guys was so high, except possibly the silly cone valley demand having a universal effect on US developer income?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Back on topic:

    When I was job hunting a few years back, I had a recruiter tell me that there were no roles in the whole UK (I'm paraphrasing, but not exaggerating that much), and that I should definitely take the roles he was offering in Germany if I ever wanted to earn a half decent salary.

    At the time I didn't have a passport, and my German knowledge reached its peak when I passed my GCSE at 16



  • I've had to deal with a lot of slave traders over the years and have never dealt with one I wouldn't happily set fire to.

    The same applies to estage agents.



  • I was in the afforementioned bidding war when one of the recruiters had his mate phone up and pretend to be another recruiter working on jobs at one of the companies and proceed to give it a really shitty sales pitch. "this role is a bit of a weight around my neck at the moment, no one seems to want it" that kind of thing.



  • So, with federal loans, I owe ~$125/month for 10 years. I could pay this off at any time really, but I can make more investing my retirement savings so I'll probably just do that. I currently pay total (marginal) tax of 29% (Federal, state, FICA) not including things like property or sales tax, nor things like student loan interest deduction (which reduces my effective tax rate even more). Nor does this include my portion of insurance costs.

    Part of the problem with determining salary in the states is that there are so many different standards of living across the nation. I'm making a pretty comfortable amount where I am now, but if I moved to e.g. NYC, Seattle, or Silicon Valley, it would probably be very low compared to salary around there.



  • Please stop... €26K before taxes, after it's €19K.
    I'm on my 4th year out of university, with consistent excellent performance reviews. And by national (Portugal) standards, it's a good salary.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Silicon Valley

    The salaries over there are pretty insane. Some of the companies there pay interns around 60k and offer them free housing in addition to that. Especially great for European exchange students, who are exempt from half of the taxes.



  • @asdf said:

    The salaries over there are pretty insane

    They have to be considering the price of housing. My 1400sf house is currently valued at about 900K - THAT'S my retirement fund.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    That can't be it, since their interns don't have to pay for the housing (see above).



  • I (obviously) wasn't talking about interns. Without "pretty insane" salaries, senior-level engineers couldn't afford to live here. (I'm making 150+K. That's pretty comfortable. But it wouldn't be with a family)


  • sockdevs

    @RaceProUK said:

    I'm on £32,000. I wouldn't call it excellent, but it's more than I was on before, and it's comfortable at least

    hmm.... 32k

    *does some math*

    okay... yeah that would be "OK" over here, in the north east or midwest.... West coast not so much and i have NFC about the south.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Oops. Sorry for being particularly dense today, I'm half-asleep ATM.



  • @accalia said:

    yeah that would be "OK" over here, in the north east or midwest

    Really? That would be low in the south or midwest, it's only like $47k.


  • sockdevs

    @locallunatic said:

    Really? That would be low in the south or midwest, it's only like $47k.

    ok. fair.

    it would be comfortable in the north east, provided you didn't mind a roommate or two (or three)



  • @accalia said:

    it would be comfortable

    Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be but in many places in the south or midwest a programmer can comfortably support a family of 4 on just their income (so a little more, but not too much).



  • Definitely could here on my salary, I think.



  • Interesting article comparing home affordability in metro areas across the US.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @locallunatic said:

    Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be but in many places in the south or midwest a programmer can comfortably support a family of 4 on just their income (so a little more, but not too much).

    Programmers here average $68K/year, and I am in the midwest. That is roughly 50% more than the figure from the UK, and our cost of living is pretty low compared to the coasts. Especially so compared to the land of fruits and nuts (California).



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Programmers here average $68K/year, and I am in the midwest.

    What is the median family income there? My town has a lower average salary for a early career programmer but it is in line with the median family income.

    @Polygeekery said:

    That is roughly 50% more than the figure from the UK, and our cost of living is pretty low compared to the coasts.

    Yeah it is, but if you aren't supporting a family on a single income of that it is still a pretty comfortable amount.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @locallunatic said:

    What is the median family income there?

    ~$40K/year.

    @locallunatic said:

    Yeah it is, but if you aren't supporting a family on a single income of that it is still a pretty comfortable amount.

    Yeah, I suppose you are right. I cannot see it though. $47K does not go very far these days...



  • @Polygeekery said:

    I cannot see it though. $47K does not go very far these days...

    Maybe not, but as you pointed out above that is higher than the median family income in your city so it isn't that bad (note family != household as it excludes singles living alone so is lower).


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @locallunatic said:

    note family != household as it excludes singles living alone so is lower

    Well...I Googled "median family income" for my city and it returned results for household income...let me see if I can find that.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @locallunatic said:

    Maybe not, but as you pointed out above that is higher than the median family income in your city so it isn't that bad (note family != household as it excludes singles living alone so is lower).

    Median family income is ~$55K.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Well...I Googled "median family income" for my city and it returned results for household income...let me see if I can find that.

    @Polygeekery said:

    Median family income is ~$55K.

    OK, so $47K isn't as good as middle of the pack family where you are, but still better than the normal if you are counting singles. That may not be up to your level of comfortable, but it sounds like not needing to pinch pennies (though not being reckless would be required) so still pretty good. Of course if we are expecting something like median family or beating that to be normal we still end up at low pay in the UK.



  • Tenemos su cv en nuestra base de datos pero bastante obsoleto (2008). Una anotación en el mismo indica que, en ese momento, buscaba usted un cambio hacia proyectos de Desarrollo.

    I received this email yesterday. Basically, they haven't updated my CV since 2008 and obviously I never received even an email from them in 8 freaking years!



  • one wonders WTF happened in the recruiter head.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Taxes. Apparently this is this week's taxes thread.



  • An email I received today!

    Hi $frist name$,

    Hope all is well!

    Xpertise are hosting the Derby .NET developers meet up at our offices on Thursday 26/03/2015.

    Location: Xpertise Recruitment, Sadler Bridge Studios, Bold Lane, Derby, DE1 1NT.

    Details:


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