Car manufacturer underestimates demand, dealerships tack on massive markup, car manufacturer responds by halting sales.



  • http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/03/16/dodge-hellcats-are-so-hot-got-suspended/

    The automaker was caught off guard by interest in the pair since they were released late last year, and has already received orders for twice as many as it planned to build for 2015. The shortage has led to 50 percent markups on the $60,000-plus by some dealers, while others have reportedly taken dozens of deposits on cars they could take years to deliver, leading Dodge to warn customers of what it called “unscrupulous” behavior.

    I guess you could say that the dealerships drive a hard bargain.

    That said, I'm pretty upset about all this. It's outrageous that they expect 275's to be able to put down 707 horses.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Groaner said:

    I guess you could say that the dealerships drive a hard bargain.

    You certainly earn your name.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place



  • @lolwhat said:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBQlofDpalo

    Gotta love that mouse cursor flying across the screen.



  • @Groaner said:

    I guess you could say that the dealerships drive a hard bargain.

    Or that they need to put the brakes on this behavior. Or that they're steering customers in the wrong direction. Or that they're just part of the engine of capitalism.


    Filed under: You tired of this yet?


  • sockdevs

    Some good puns there; shame about
    @NedFodder said:

    breaks

    Fix it for a like ;)



  • @NedFodder said:

    Filed under: You tired of this yet?

    No, I'm exhausted.



  • @Groaner said:

    It's outrageous that they expect 275's to be able to put down 707 horses.

    You need them so you can smoke the tires at highway speed.

    I would be afraid of putting real rubber on that car; with 700 horsepower and 4500 pounds, decent traction would put immense stress on the driveline. Consider the tires to be a second clutch.



  • My favorite Hellcat stat:

    The fuel injection system delivers 2 gallons or fuel per minute to the engine at full throttle/redline. That's the same flow as a typical US kitchen faucet when it's all the way open.




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    @Jaime said:

    My favorite Hellcat stat:

    The fuel injection system delivers 2 gallons or fuel per minute to the engine at full throttle/redline. That's the same flow as a typical US kitchen faucet when it's all the way open.

    Favorite Bugatti Veyron stat:

    At top speed, the tires would overheat to the point of destruction in ~15 minutes, but that is inconsequential as at full chat the fuel only lasts 12 minutes. (not that you could ever find a section of road straight enough to allow either to happen...)



  • @Polygeekery said:

    but that is inconsequential as at full chat the fuel only lasts 12 minutes

    The Hellcat carries nine minutes of fuel.



  • I suppose that if you can afford to pay that much for a car, you're probably not too worried about the cost of refueling or replacing tires every few minutes.

    @Polygeekery said:

    not that you could ever find a section of road straight enough to allow either to happen...
    I'm sure there are many places — US great plains or western deserts, e.g. — where the road is straight enough to maintain that speed. Maybe not so much if you take other road conditions into consideration — pavement conditions, lack of other traffic, lack of the Highway Patrol setting up roadblocks in your path, ...


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    @Jaime said:

    The Hellcat carries nine minutes of fuel.

    26.4 gallons for the Veyron as compared to 18.5 gallons. Both are impressive(ly thirsty).


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    @HardwareGeek said:

    I suppose that if you can afford to pay that much for a car, you're probably not too worried about the cost of refueling or replacing tires every few minutes.

    Veyron tires are $70K/set once you account for the fact that you have to ship the rims to France to have the tires done.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    I'm sure there are many places — US great plains or western deserts, e.g. — where the road is straight enough to maintain that speed. Maybe not so much if you take other road conditions into consideration — pavement conditions, lack of other traffic, lack of the Highway Patrol setting up roadblocks in your path

    How about this:



  • Ouch.


  • sockdevs

    @Jaime said:

    How about this:
    http://www.motormorph.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/nardo600.jpg

    They went there on Top Gear once; they had a Lambo Aventador, a McLaren 12C, and a Noble M600. IIRC, the bumpiness is severe enough that a car doing about 180mph could jump sideways an entire lane-width.

    They pushed all three cars over 200mph.


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    @RaceProUK said:

    the bumpiness is severe enough that a car doing about 180mph could jump sideways an entire lane-width.

    That will certainly raise the "brown pants factor"...



  • @Jaime said:

    How about [this][1]:
    [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nardò_Ring

    At the end of a long paragraph about the mechanics of the ring, it suddenly changes topic (emphasis added):

    In the process of fighting a turn as needed when going faster than the neutral speed quite a bit of potential top speed is lost and hence a fast car will go faster in a straight line than what is possible on the Nardó Ring. Even at the neutral speed, in a banked turn a car runs a bit heavier than it would in a straight line, since the downforce created by the banking increases the rolling resistance on the tires. There has only been one fatality at the ring.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    They pushed all three cars over 200mph.

    When I was young and stupid, I got a bike up to 196mph on the highway. I went through about $50 worth of tire in two miles.

    Back to the Dodge, getting a Lambo up to 200 is a mild test of nerves. Selling a $60K muscle car that can do 199mph is awesome.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    LHC?

    </massive nerd>

    Yes officer, I will step away from the car thread where anything beyond basic knowledge is required...


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @tar said:

    > Even at the neutral speed, in a banked turn a car runs a bit heavier than it would in a straight line, since the downforce created by the banking increases the rolling resistance on the tires. There has only been one fatality at the ring.



  • @NedFodder said:

    Filed under: You tired of this yet?

    Hardly. With such drastic markups, it seems like we've got a new type of Dodge charger.

    @TwelveBaud said:

    No, I'm exhausted.

    Glad you could end on a high note.



  • @Jaime said:

    You need them so you can smoke the tires at highway speed.

    There's that, but that seems like such a waste of good rubber that could be better wasted in a 1g turn or a quarter mile.

    I have 275's and 300 fewer horses and I have traction problems at the top of first gear. First gear must be almost completely useless in the Hellcat, apart from burnouts.

    @Jaime said:

    I would be afraid of putting real rubber on that car; with 700 horsepower and 4500 pounds, decent traction would put immense stress on the driveline. Consider the tires to be a second clutch.

    We can expect that there will always be a handful of people for whom 707hp is Not Enough™, and that the aftermarket will provide upgrades to 800, 1000, 1200, etc. It will be interesting to see how well the stock powertrain copes.



  • @Jaime said:

    Back to the Dodge, getting a Lambo up to 200 is a mild test of nerves. Selling a $60K muscle car that can do 199mph is awesome.

    It's also going to have a much lower TCO, and can comfortably seat five small persons.



  • @Groaner said:

    comfortably seat five small persons

    How many average-size persons? And personally, no matter how comfortable the seat is, I'm not going to be comfortable in a car going in the neighborhood of 200 MPH.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    How many average-size persons? And personally, no matter how comfortable the seat is, I'm not going to be comfortable in a car going in the neighborhood of 200 MPH.

    At that speed, you ought to leave the neighborhood pretty quickly, and it's less nerve-wracking once you hit the freeway...



  • @tar said:

    it's less nerve-wracking once you hit the freeway...

    Not when the freeway looks like this:



  • @Onyx said:

    LHC?

    obPerverselyOffTopicNecrophilia:

    Tired of Top and Bottom, now looking for Strangeness and Charm.

    Filed Under: As long as DiscHorse keeps serving up old threads, I'll keep necroing them



  • I don't see the point of driving a car that can go that fast, but only in a straight line on perfectly smooth roads. Having seen what the Veyron is capable of, I suspect that on my favourite driving roads you could leave it for dust in any moderately quick family saloon.



  • @gordonjcp said:

    I don't see the point of driving a car that can go that fast, but only in a straight line on perfectly smooth roads.

    Have you ever gone to a dragstrip and done the 1/4 mile? There's a lot more skill and thrill to it than it would seem.

    @gordonjcp said:

    Having seen what the Veyron is capable of, I suspect that on my favourite driving roads you could leave it for dust in any moderately quick family saloon.

    The Veyron is a one-trick pony. It's also possible to build something roughly as fast for much less money. For example, this:

    The 1,100 HP Switzer "Ultimate Street Edition" GTR - /TUNED – 09:21
    — /DRIVE



  • I have, actually. I did a couple of runs a few years ago in a mid-80s Citroën CX GT, getting mid-13s. Fun, but not much more involved than pulling out of a badly-designed motorway slip road. You pretty much don't even need your hands on the steering wheel :-)



  • The Veyron is very much not a one trick pony. It's a heavy luxury hypercar with excellent engineering and handling.

    For my money, I'll take a Nissan GTR though.



  • True that, I'd also prefer to be on a road course, but it's cheaper and easier to get time on the 1320'. The closest road course to where I live was pretty much booked solid through the end of the year when I checked in the summer. So, in the meantime, I get to practice launching.




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    @gordonjcp said:

    I suspect that on my favourite driving roads you could leave it for dust in any moderately quick family saloon.

    Well, you're obviously high. A family saloon would still be blazed by it just due to horsepower alone. And, they don't corner that bad. It is not like they strapped a 1,100hp engine in an ox cart.



  • Look how much ground clearance it's got. It would scrape if you ran over a sweetie wrapper, never mind the uneven roads around rural Scotland.


  • area_deu

    @Polygeekery said:

    A family saloon

    The current record holder for the moose test is the Citroën Xantia ...
    http://teknikensvarld.se/algtest/

    CC: @onyx



  • @aliceif said:

    Citroën Xantia

    It's a shame the handling isn't as good on current Citroens.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Just looked at the list. That was an Activa! A pretty rare beast.

    I don't know how many changes it went through, but I'd assume C5s should be comparable? I can't judge, really, I had a regular Xantia.



  • @Onyx said:

    I don't know how many changes it went through, but I'd assume C5s should be comparable?

    Not driven one, but the C5 is a bit further down the results on that site.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Well... it's a tourer, also, since it's 2008 it's most likely second gen, so it might be the spring suspension model. Which is as unfair as a comparison as you can get, really.



  • @Onyx said:

    Which is as unfair as a comparison as you can get, really.

    Depends. If it's representative of a modern Citroen, then it's fair game under my whole

    @loopback0 said:

    It's a shame the handling isn't as good on current Citroens.

    thing.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Well, in my book, if there's a model where you can choose spring or hydropneumatics and you go for spring, you went for a cheap knockoff :stuck_out_tongue:



  • @Onyx said:

    Well, in my book, if there's a modelsituation where you can choose springFrench or hydropneumaticsGerman and you go for springFrench, you went for a cheap knockoff :stuck_out_tongue:

    FTFY.

    But yes, although I think the C5 is the only Citroen that has the option, and they're canning it there too.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @loopback0 said:

    But yes, although I think the C5 is the only Citroen that has the option

    C6, hydropneumatic only, AFAIK.

    @loopback0 said:

    and they're canning it there too

    Fucking bastards.


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