Vivaldi!!!!!!!!! (it's a web browser I guess)



  • Why is this in Side Bar WTF?

    But Vivaldi's interface does not rely on the same code you'll find in Chrome or Opera. In fact, the interface is written entirely with Web technologies, primarily Javascript and CSS. Javascript, React, Node.js, Browserify, and "a long list of NPM modules" create the Vivaldi UI. As the website puts it, "Vivaldi is the Web built with the Web."



  • The Atwood's Law thread is :cinema: :arrow_heading_up: :( that way



  • So they use their dom rendering engine to draw the UI. Doesn't Chrome already do that? In the dev tools, for instance?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    In fact, the interface is written entirely with Web technologies

    :facepalm:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Node.js

    Ah, there we go, the reason this exists. Because Node is teh coolz!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    the interface is written entirely with Web technologies

    there goes my faith in the ex opera developers.



  • I like the name. The rest, not so much.@blakeyrat said:

    a long list of NPM modules

    If they used this NPM, there might be a prayer of it actually working:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Jarry said:

    there goes my faith in the ex opera developers.

    Oh hell, I just now read that bit. They are attempting to remake Opera 12... in HTML?

    Otter actually has the right idea. But remaking Opera 12 features in HTML and JS? Oh, yeah, that will end well! I see another Discourse in the making...

    Actually, downloading now so I can test Discourse in it. Because if there's a single spot where they didn't guard against JS running on the site affecting the UI... This is going to be fun!



  • I liked that tidbit from the article:

    The problem is bad enough that a future version of Firefox will even have a feature dedicated to letting you know which of your add-ons is slowing you down.

    I distinctly remember IE having this feature for several years now.


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    And now for the fun part: what's broken, browser or Discourse?

    Well, so far it's actually pretty fast. Looks like shit because it doesn't follow a single OS theme setting. Including the text selection colour.

    Speaking of colours...

    Yes, it does that while changing tabs. Not sure where it gets the idea about the colour to use. Guessing the favicon.

    Dev tools are, of course, standard Chrome. So. no Dragonfly remake attempt yet, which is the "killer feature" that would make me consider it.

    Mouse gestures... seems like a subset of them works. Back, forward and refresh, including rocker gestures. New tab and more advanced ones don't work.

    Panels work. Still no mail client. There is no downloads tab, CtrlJ opens the downloads panel instead. However:

    Thank you! See? Simple, I see what's happening. Looks decent. Pausing / resuming doesn't work though.

    CtrlZ reopens closed tabs. CtrlShiftV is paste and go. So they seem to have Opera 12 shortcuts down.

    Speed dial looks fine, didn't poke around much. But I think I already managed to slow it down by typing this post and fiddling with tabs.

    Yeah, that's... a bit much IMHO.

    Well... interesting experiment, I guess? Their heart is in the right place on the Opera 12 remake, they seem to be doing a decent job of it. But I still don't think this is the way. If anything stands a chance it's Otter IMHO.


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    Oh... shit...

    Tab... tab stacking... it works... I... I can stack tabs again...

    *bites lip*

    No, this is wrong! I will not use a browser written in Node! No! NO! NOOOOOOO!!!

    Tab stacking works...



  • @cartman82 said:

    So they use their dom rendering engine to draw the UI. Doesn't Chrome already do that? In the dev tools, for instance?

    Probably, that would confirm the "this is a WTF" aspect, considering how awful Chrome's dev tools UI is.

    @Rhywden said:

    I distinctly remember IE having this feature for several years now.

    IE also had developers tools (in the form of DOM toolbar) long before Firefox had Firebug. Yet somehow Firefox gets the credit for "inventing" them.

    @Onyx said:

    Yes, it does that while changing tabs. Not sure where it gets the idea about the colour to use. Guessing the favicon.

    Windows Vista and 7 had an algorithm to highlight icons on the taskbar by examining their colors. The difference was, it was subtle and not eye-searingly awful.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    IE also had developers tools (in the form of DOM toolbar) long before Firefox had Firebug. Yet somehow Firefox gets the credit for "inventing" them.

    i think their UI is still so horrible that no one wants to acknowledge its existence.

    @blakeyrat said:

    considering how awful Chrome's dev tools UI is.

    Keep on keepin' on, blakey.


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    @blakeyrat said:

    considering how awful Chrome's dev tools UI is

    Everything is shit after Dragonfly. Sadly, it is now dead, gone, and seemingly forgotten.



  • Do you remember why the UI is "shit?" If not, do you think you could predict the answer?


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    @boomzilla said:

    Do you remember why the UI is "shit?" If not, do you think you could predict the answer?

    I don't even care about the UI in this case tbh. It's Dragonfly's features and ease of use that I miss.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    IE also had developers tools some random broken things that were called 'developer tools'

    FTFY

    seriously. the IE < 10 dev tools were so broken that nobody in his right mind would use them



  • When they were introduced in IE 5.5 they were the bees knees, far better than anything else that existed at the time.

    ... They didn't age well.



  • @Jarry said:

    seriously. the IE < 10 dev tools were so broken that nobody in his right mind would use them

    Dude, when you were doing IE 5.5 development you had the choice between DOM Toolbar and :tumbleweeds:

    @TwelveBaud said:

    When they were introduced in IE 5.5 they were the bees knees, far better than anything else that existed at the time.

    ^- what he said



  • I stand corrected. by that time i was 14. i didn't use dev tools.

    however from my experience with >6 they were unusable, not bad, in comparison to other dev tools, simply unusable


  • sockdevs

    huh...... /me wanders off to boot up a VM to test this in



  • So he took a dozen open source tools and put them together to make a proprietary product.

    Come on, why not make it open source? Does he expect to sell it?



  • Ditto Firefox.



  • Firebug: because no-one wanted to use the existing DOM Inspector.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Windows Vista and 7 had an algorithm to highlight icons on the taskbar by examining their colors. The difference was, it was subtle and not eye-searingly awful.

    As an extension to this, if you pin websites to the taskbar in Win 7 (maybe 8 too) using IE's completely pointless website pinning feature, when you launch said pins, IE recolors some UI elements to match the favicon of the website.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    In fact, the interface is written entirely with Web technologies, primarily Javascript and CSS.

    At the time Firefox was first in development, all the cool kids were using XML (often in conjunction with CSS) to specify their user interfaces. This makes sense: XML was designed for declaring structured data, and UI design is largely declarative rather than procedural.

    Now that JSON has also become widely accepted as a definition language for structured data, the case for keeping XML around to do the UI-declarative stuff is not as strong as it once was.

    The fact that JSON is more or less a Javascript subset means that "largely declarative" as opposed to "totally declarative" is a pretty good fit for Javascript coded in the style of JSON with Javascript tweaks - a much less awful prospect than the various and sundry hacks that have been used over the years to wedge bits and pieces of procedural functionality into XML.

    So I don't rate a browser UI defined in Javascript+CSS as a WTF in principle.

    Of course, whether or not it turns out to be every bit as much WTF in practice as its assorted XML-based forebears remains to be seen. Given that it pretty much has to stay compatible with the utterly horrifying W3C DOM, I'm tipping that the answer will be "yes".



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Windows Vista and 7 ... subtle and not eye-searingly awful

    Eye-searingly awful is the Way New Design Language, man!

    Windows 7 is old'n'busted! Windows 8 is Teh New Hotness! Do keep up. Also, typography or some shit.



  • @flabdablet said:

    XML was designed for declaring structured data, and UI design is largely declarative rather than procedural.

    Firefox: There is no data, there is only XUL.

    (edit: Fixed that for Onyx)


    Filed under: FUCKING HELL WHY DOES IT BREAK THE SELECTION HANDLES WHEN I TAP TWICE?, FUCKING HELL WHY DOES THE INSERTION POINT MOVE TO THE END WHILE THE CURSOR BLINKS IN ITS ORIGINAL SPOT WHEN I PASTE ONCE?


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    @TwelveBaud said:

    Firefox: There is no data, there is only XULZUUL.

    FTFY


    There is a mighty wind is what there is. -b



  • @Rhywden said:

    I distinctly remember IE having this feature for several years now.

    Does it just return one string, "Me"?

    @flabdablet said:

    So I don't rate a browser UI defined in Javascript+CSS as a WTF in principle.

    Of course, whether or not it turns out to be every bit as much WTF in practice as its assorted XML-based forebears remains to be seen. Given that it pretty much has to stay compatible with the utterly horrifying W3C DOM, I'm tipping that the answer will be "yes".

    ::slow clap::

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Firefox: There is no data, there is only XUL.

    This may be the funniest thing I've read all year.


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    @TwelveBaud said:

    (edit: Fixed that for Onyx)

    Did I just accidentally deconstruct a joke by attempting to create my own?

    Great mindsNerds and all that, I guess.



  • It's been a long time since a brand new desktop browser landed on the Web.

    Innovation for innovation's sake?

    Web newcomers might even be forgiven for thinking that there have always been just four such browsers: Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari.

    It's like saying that teenagers might be forgiven for thinking EU has existed forever.

    After the vicious early days when the world of Web browsers closely resembled the ruthless world of the railroad barons a century earlier, the browser market settled down to something pretty boring.

    Until Chrome appeared. And before that, until Firefox appeared.

    the rise of mobile devices, which have spawned a thousand browsers that are all quietly, invisibly embedded into other applications.

    That's enough. I'm done.



  • @Onyx said:

    FTFY


    There is a mighty wind is what there is. -b

    I have to agree.

    <!-- 6ab865b7-1b48-403b-b126-25fe3e0a8fa6 -->


  • @Onyx said:

    Did I just accidentally deconstruct a joke by attempting to create my own?

    Maybe you're not used to an 'X' at the start of a word sounding like a 'Z'?


  • sockdevs

    FFS man, even I got that joke, and I'm second only to the fox for whooshing! :laughing:

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->

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    @boomzilla said:

    Maybe you're not used to an 'X' at the start of a word sounding like a 'Z'?

    No, I'm fine with the concept. That's why I made the joke in the first place. I had no idea that it was made already, but in the other direction.

    @RaceProUK said:

    FFS man, even I got that joke, and I'm second only to the fox for whooshing!

    See above.

    Oh well. I won't ask for an appeal process. I will wear my shame with pride. It will go well with my long service medals.

    EDIT: Also, reading the reports now, yes, I know about XUL also. Maybe I should go for an appeal?

    Nah, fuck it.


  • sockdevs

    @Onyx said:

    See above.

    At least you only have one whoosh.

    I got three in 10 days :laughing:
    Two of those in just three days!

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->


  • @Onyx said:

    I had no idea that it was made already, but in the other direction.

    I have whooshed like that before. Though no one called me on it. :cry:



  • Am I the only one here who reads leading "x" as [ks]?


  • area_deu

    This way of spelling is so silly:

    :laughing:


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    @Gaska said:

    Am I the only one here who reads leading "x" as [ks]?

    Nope. But I'm used to both ways of reading it anyway.



  • @aliceif said:

    This way of spelling is so silly

    At least we don't actually write "x" anymore. I mean, back in 19th century, a priest was "xiądz" (IMO looks worse than modern-day "ksiądz").



  • c and x are kind of pointless letters in English.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I got three in 10 days :laughing:
    Two of those in just three days!

    And you seem awfully proud of it. It's a badge of shame for a reason, y'know.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    c and x are kind of pointless letters in English.

    And also we don't have letters for ch, sh, th, th and that weird s sound in pleasure.

    Filed under: thin and this start with different sounds.



  • In lojban, t makes the t sound and c makes the sh sound. So tc makes the ch sound. pleasure would be spelled plejyr if lojban used English words.

    Pleasure is actually spelled oinai in lojban, which means "the opposite of complaint".



  • Guys stop posting this shit in my thread.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    this

    @blakeyrat said:

    shit

    @blakeyrat said:

    thread

    BUT WHAT SOUND DOES h MAKE?


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    I think we're just becoming immune to the "everything is getting rewritten in Node.js" bullshit by now and we ran out of JavaScript jokes as a result.



  • @Gaska said:

    Am I the only one here who reads leading "x" as [ks]?

    Oh, you don't count. You are Polish. You are used to letters being pronounced consistently!


  • area_pol

    @Onyx said:

    Oh hell, I just now read that bit. They are attempting to remake Opera 12... in HTML?

    Otter actually has the right idea. But remaking Opera 12 features in HTML and JS? Oh, yeah, that will end well! I see another Discourse in the making...

    You do know that Opera 12 and earlier had javascript driven UI, right?


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