Enlightened
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*sigh...*
I knew that'd come back to bite me... Why do I open my big mouth?
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Post count?
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This is not "here's some rope, don't hang yourself with it"; it's "here's a carboy of nitroglycerine. Don't drop it! Don't ... DROP!! it... Jinx!...."
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At least it reads like proper English, instead of whatever @translator spewed sentences the EFL documentation is made out of.
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Newsflash: In the last 30 years, the monetary balance has shifted. Hardware is cheaper than developers, that's why we're not all on mainframes right now.
It's shifting again. Battery time is more valuable than development time these days.
(not that I know or care enough of EFL to know whether it is better than anything else that's around. Nor do I think it is a valid excuse for not providing a decent wrapping library around your framework. Programming straight into XLib is a bitch, marginally better by using Xview, marginally better by using Motif, marginally better by using Qt, marginally better by using QTCreator, marginally better by using a Student, and so on)
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Let me tell about a certain experiment conducted in my corp. Three developers were tasked with creating a certain window application, nothing fancy. They were to do it in qt, some OSX lib (can't remember which) and efl. Neither knew any of those libraries.
Qt guy finished in 3 days; OSX guy finished in 3.5 days; efl guy gave up after 2 weeks.
Let that sink in.
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Callback function plus varargs is just asking for trouble.
Just reading that sentence makes me think about getting out the paracetamol, and it's not yet 0930…
A callback that takes a
void*context parameter is the right way to do it in C. Not type-safe, but you're in C so you've not got that anyway, but really easy to make work right. It's even easy to bridge into other languages like C++. (The only tricky bit is that you have to have another callback to deallocate the context when things are deleted, but that's hardly conceptually difficult. This is totally a solved problem.)
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My favourite is
eo_do() is the function used to invoke functions of a specific class on an object.
Call a function to call a function. I think this should be changed so that you have to add a
CALLkeyword beforeeo_do. The situation could be further improved if we had to write the AST directly in Lispy parentheses syntax. Or assembly.
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Let me tell about a certain experiment conducted in my corp. Three developers were tasked with creating a certain window application, nothing fancy. They were to do it in qt, some OSX lib (can't remember which) and efl. Neither knew any of those libraries.
Qt guy finished in 3 days; OSX guy finished in 3.5 days; efl guy gave up after 2 weeks.
Let that sink in.I tried to use a part of EFL to render (formatted) text + some other simple 2D stuff to a raw memory buffer. The buffer-engine seemed like a good match for that. To figure out the markup for the formatting, I had to look at the code (not a good sign), and eventually I gave up. I don't think I ever quite got it to work either. (Note, this was probably ~2 years ago, though.)
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See page 4 of the presentation for explanation why EFL https://phab.enlightenment.org/file/info/PHID-FILE-23554ctd3qqmwwdhimwp/
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Evas_Object because those objects require Evas object to be placed on! Not kidding...
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Authority – Not much used yet – Company love control
Because that's a good reason to select a UI package! </sarc>
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Holy crap, it's a whole defence brigade!
Come, come, we have enough hugs and kisses for everyone!
Should someone tell them we're a bunch of hypocritical assholes who hate everything yet?
Nah!
Edit: And ANOTHER Discourse bug... yay!
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Holy crap, it's a whole defence brigade!
I love it when people show up to defend their WTFs! Now, if we could just get yellow boxing glove guy back.
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I love it when people show up to defend their WTFs!
It's the honourable thing to do ;)
Stupid, but honourable.
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Now, if we could just get yellow boxing glove guy back.
Since I've obviously missed something funny: Do you have a link?
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Since I've obviously missed something funny: Do you have a link?
Lotus Notes: Spearheading the social/mobile web revolution!
@Speakerphone Dude said:Is it me or this guy joined *after* he posted? WHAT IS GOING ON!!! OMG LOTUS NOTES HAS BROKEN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM @MatNewman said:I just LOVE that Lotus Notes allows me to select the correct time zone while scheduling a meet...
Mat Newman:
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Now I know why Enlightenment is such trash.
I installed it on Ubuntu 12.04 and it crashed when I tried opening the menu for the first time. Fortunately it had a "Press KEY to continue" kind of error popup and I could try opening the menu again without restarting the whole thing. That is a great feature considering how often this DE crashed. I got to see the menu on my 2nd (or was it 4th?) try.
All in all I spent about an hour using Enlightenment but I only managed to start the settings and terminal app in that time so I didn't really get to know it that well. I noticed lots of bugs like redraw/resize inconsistencies, context menus locing the mouse to the screen. I didn't trust the terminal to not crash long enough to complete any task so I didn't see any point in keeping this thing.
If anything I learned that not having any DE is preferrable.
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My new Jolla phone is running Sailfish, and it works fine* even though it's a successor of MeeGo. They did reinvent the GUI to be based on Qt though, and they were obviously smart enough to partner with a third party for an Android support package so that they wouldn't have to reinvent every app.
* It does have a few bugs, some more irritating than others, but the development is still active and they're not critical.
I came really close to getting one of those several times. Most recently during the Other Half Keyboard kickstarter. One of my concerns was that I didn't really find most of the UX changes from n900 to n9 favorable and Sailfish seemed to be going farther in the same direction...
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To be fair, using any other DE than Unity on Ubuntu is a royal PITA regardless of the particular DE.
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Well, that's what all the one-additional-letter spins are for (Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu).
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Did they remove at least some of all that additional guff that's stuck into the mainline version?
If not, I'm still sticking with the opinion that only variant worth using is spelled "Mint".
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Name makes me think of this.
I was reminded of this:
A serious young man found the conflicts of mid 20th Century America confusing. He went to many people seeking a way of resolving within himself the discords that troubled him, but he remained troubled.
One night in a coffee house, a self-ordained Zen Master said to him, "go to the dilapidated mansion you will find at this address which I have written down for you. Do not speak to those who live there; you must remain silent until the moon rises tomorrow night. Go to the large room on the right of the main hallway, sit in the lotus position on top of the rubble in the northeast corner, face the corner, and meditate."
He did just as the Zen Master instructed. His meditation was frequently interrupted by worries. He worried whether or not the rest of the plumbing fixtures would fall from the second floor bathroom to join the pipes and other trash he was sitting on. He worried how would he know when the moon rose on the next night. He worried about what the people who walked through the room said about him.
His worrying and meditation were disturbed when, as if in a test of his faith, ordure fell from the second floor onto him. At that time two people walked into the room. The first asked the second who the man was sitting there was. The second replied "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a shithead."
Hearing this, the man was enlightened.
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More from that PDF (emphasis mine)
How EFL in the Tizen?
- Tizen 2.2.1
- Parasitic on Tizen to survive
- For UI, Parasitic on EFL :(
- It will be dead soon
- Parasitic on Tizen to survive
- Theme Script
- Edje is entry barrier for newcomer
- Thanks to BÖB!
- Genlist redesign
- It's only 6000 lines but it's Spagetti
- Totally rewritten for Tizen commercialization
- Also I should see all application codes and change them
- How [I made & maintain those all over 1000 genlist styles] alone?
- MACRO!
- Double edged sword
- MACRO!
And I don't intend to make fun of the ESL, just the frank burbling of WTFs that happens to live within the ESL.
- Tizen 2.2.1
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Did they remove at least some of all that additional guff that's stuck into the mainline version?
Elaborate.
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Well, that's what all the one-additional-letter spins are for (Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu).
Used all of them, especially Kubuntu was buggy as hell for years. And a lot of those bugs were Ubuntu-specific. Also, have you ever tried to use Ubuntu GNOME?
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Elaborate.
Last time I used Ubuntu and dared to type a search into the Unity launcher thing it immediately started connecting to Amazon, Ubuntu store, some music store thing and hell knows whatever else. I know there was some other guff in there as well that happily chewed on my RAM without a good reason.
Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with the whole "search online" deal. When it's an extra freaking button I can click when I want it, not when it starts sucking down on my limited mobile connection when tethering every time I want to start a damned application I don't have pinned.
Yes, I know you can turn it off. But every new version they release has some other annoying "feature" that's on by default and I have to hunt for the way to turn it off. Also:
Used all of them, especially Kubuntu was buggy as hell for years. And a lot of those bugs were Ubuntu-specific.
This.
Switched to Mint and never looked back. I'd switch to Debian edition tbh, but I actually like PPAs and the Ubuntu derivatives are the only ones that support them so...
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If not, I'm still sticking with the opinion that only variant worth using is spelled "Mint".
Why not Debian? Worked fine enough for me back when I was Linux-inclined enough to play with dual boot, and I still keep it in a VM for the darkest hours.
Used all of them, especially Kubuntu was buggy as hell for years. And a lot of those bugs were Ubuntu-specific.
Xubuntu and Lubuntu were about as nice as Ubuntu can get, though. I liked the second one, since it was the only system outside of WinXP that ran on a netbook without a hitch.
Thank God I got rid of that netbook, though. That was a fucking disaster.
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Why not Debian?
See above. PPA support. Because I'm a lazy bastard.
I actually use Debian at work where I don't need anything outside standard repos.
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Xubuntu and Lubuntu were about as nice as Ubuntu can get, though. I liked the second one, since it was the only system outside of WinXP that ran on a netbook without a hitch.
Xfce is pretty much dead, unfortunately. Haven't used it since I sold my old (read: ancient) PC.
The problem is: I'm a lazy bastard, like @Onyx. I want PPAs and pre-packaged third-party software, so Ubuntu seems like the only sane choice. Unfortunately, Ubuntu GNOME is a clusterfuck that crashes all the time, because of Ubuntu-specific patches and hacks and the fact that they packaged software from 3 different GNOME versions.
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DO NOT FUCKING WANT.
I knew the first comment would be about GNOME 3. Well, I actually like it. Deal with it.
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That shit?
It's part of the Unity launcher.
Yes, the home-grown Gnome-based DE thing.
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I knew the first comment would be about GNOME 3.
It has some decent ideas. But they done fucked up in many regards. Many of them I can excuse, but they fucking SLAUGHTERED Nautilus. They removed half the features I was using!
I stick to Cinnamon these days. MATE is fine as well.
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No. I always hated Gnome.
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Last time I used Ubuntu and dared to type a search into the Unity launcher thing it immediately started connecting to Amazon, Ubuntu store, some music store thing and hell knows whatever else.
I remember that, too. I think they mentioned making it optional (in the settings) in the next version. I never bothered to check, though.
Xfce is pretty much dead, unfortunately
Isn't that used whenever somebody puts rasperian on a PI? Might be a nieche but meh....
DO NOT FUCKING WANT.
As a casual user back then I never really had much problems with GNOME (2). Care to elaborate?
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Yes, the home-grown Gnome-based DE thing.
Which also had some decent ideas IMHO. And I actually liked the early versions (on small screens).
Again, they done fucked it up so... nope!
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They removed half the features I was using!
Care to elaborate?
No. I always hated Gnome.
Out of curiosity (and because I want to mock it): Which DE do you use?
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Xfce is pretty much dead, unfortunately. Haven't used it since I sold my old (read: ancient) PC.
What? I see that as it's main selling point.
At least you don't have a herd of developers trying to synergize the discrepancies of mobile and desktop to go for a more glorious collaborative future.
TLDR; it looks like Windows 2000 with some extra features seen in Aero thrown on top.
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Care to elaborate?
Off the top of my head: Compact view. Twin panel mode. CtrlL to switch between breadcrumbs and location input was off by default IIRC.
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None?
I use KDE applications + some of the independent/lightweight ones with the awesome window manager, but don't have all the backend baggage that KDE has installed (e.g. no phonon and such).
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Ok, that seems kind of sane.
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Tizen is supposed target EVERYTHING embedded, which might be TRWTF here.
WHO THE HELL IS COMING UP WITH THEIR DEFINITION OF EMBEDDED?!?!?!
Time to grab a tube of ATmega48s and apply it as a clue-stick to somebody...Xfce is pretty much dead, unfortunately. Haven't used it since I sold my old (read: ancient) PC.
Eh? I use it on my personal box -- albeit with mostly your typical GTK and Qt software (in fact, Xfce itself is paired with GTK nowadays)TLDR; it looks like Windows 2000 with some extra features seen in Aero thrown on top.
Yeah, but it works, and isn't going to sit there and throw you for a loop every time you turn around (see: GNOME 3, Metro).
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Xfce is pretty much dead, unfortunately.
They made a new release after 3 years!
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Compact view.
What was that again?
Twin panel mode.
Open nautilus. Super+→ Open nautilus. Super+← Alternatively, use tabs.
CtrlL to switch between breadcrumbs and location input was off by default IIRC.
Nope, still works. I do that all the time.
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Have you tried https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Elbuntu
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What was that again?
Windows calls it "List"
For the rest: well, I either used it before it was (re)implemented in Nautilus 3 or someone in Canonical fucked up. But I'm sure that at least the split didn't work. All I had were tabs.
News – Xfce 4.12 released – Xfce