Latest Firearm Topic



  • Well speaking for myself, it's more an aversion to people being allowed to carry handguns around at all, other than in a locked case on your way to a proper shooting range.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I'll stick with loaded I think; it's a little safer

    That might be difficult in some parts of the US, from what I understand.


  • SockDev

    @CarrieVS said:

    That might be difficult in some parts of the US, from what I understand.

    There's a reason I'm not too keen on moving to the US on any sort of permanent basis… though I understand not every state allows concealed-carry.

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->


  • @RaceProUK said:

    though I understand not every state allows concealed-carry.

    It doesn't have to be concealed to be loaded. But I don't want to move to the US either - frankly the prospect of even visiting it makes me anxious, but I'm aware you get a rather negatively skewed picture of any place you experience primarily in headlines.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @RaceProUK said:

    There's a reason I'm not too keen on moving to the US on any sort of permanent basis… though I understand not every state allows concealed-carry.

    Why the aversion to concealed carry? Most people who do so are perfectly normal individuals, there are just a few loons who decide to make a point by carrying an AR-15 into Burger King like an asshole who garner all of the attention and paint it in a negative light.


  • SockDev

    @Polygeekery said:

    Why the aversion to concealed carry?

    I'm British :laughing:

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->

  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @CarrieVS said:

    Well speaking for myself, it's more an aversion to people being allowed to carry handguns around at all, other than in a locked case on your way to a proper shooting range.

    You do not feel that people should be allowed to defend themselves?


  • SockDev

    @Polygeekery said:

    You do not feel that people should be allowed to defend themselves?

    People can defend themselves without lead slugs propelled from a tube by explosive powder :stuck_out_tongue:

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->

  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @RaceProUK said:

    People can defend themselves without lead slugs propelled from a tube by explosive powder

    I suppose I could grab a pointy stick, but I prefer something a bit more effective. ;)


  • SockDev

    @Polygeekery said:

    I suppose I could grab a pointy stick, but I prefer something a bit more effective. ;)

    Like a hammer! :laughing:

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->

  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @RaceProUK said:

    Like a hammer!

    Like a Glock 21. ;)


  • mod

    @RaceProUK said:

    People can defend themselves without lead slugs propelled from a tube by explosive powder

    I am 5 feet 9 inches tall, about 130 pounds. How would you propose I defend myself from a six foot attacker, approximately 250? What if is 100 feet away and pointing a gun at my wife and children?

    I'll carry a gun myself, thank you.

    Watching in case this blows up. May need to jeff some posts soon.



  • Call the police and politely ask your attacker to wait 45 minutes for the cops to show up and defend you, obviously!



  • Not with a handgun.

    I feel the possible benefits of allowing people to walk around with handguns are outweighed by all the reasons it's just asking for trouble.

    Of course, the US is a country with a substantial gun culture and just banning them would do little good, I recognise that. But it's possible for a country not to have a gun culture, and in the UK people don't walk around in fear for their lives unless they have the capability to kill someone with a twitch of their index finger.

    I'm not suggesting that the US ought to just ban handguns, just that I'm glad I live in a coutnry that doesn't have guns like you do.

    @abarker that six foot attacker probably wouldn't have a gun, if it was in the UK. Besides, I'd rather bet my family's lives on him not killing people purely for the hell of it if we all cooperate and let him have whatever he wants, than on me being able to fire first, and kill him instantly - almost anywhere you shoot a person, if he's already pointing the gun with his finger on the trigger, he's probably got time to fire it if he chooses to. I feel like he's probably a lot more likely to choose to if I'm brandishing a gun too.


  • SockDev

    …I think I'm being backed into a corner re: my argument… but I'll bite anyway.

    In that situation, if you're unable to reason with the attacker, having a gun yourself may only make the situation worse. Unless you're absolutely sure you can get an accurate shot off first, having your own firearm is no guarantee of protection.

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->


  • @RaceProUK said:

    though I understand not every state allows concealed-carry.

    Only the better sorts. I'd rather be around a group of permit holders than not.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    outweighed by all the reasons it's just asking for trouble.

    Except all the trouble never happens, and FBI statistics back it up. Also, the US is not the UK, so YMMV FWIW.

    @CarrieVS said:

    I'd rather bet my family's lives on him not killing people purely for the hell of it if we all cooperate and let him have whatever he wants, than on me being able to fire first, and kill him instantly

    In the US, the vast majority of gun crime is commited by gangs, and a lot of them do kill just for the hell of it.

    @RaceProUK said:

    having your own firearm is no guarantee of protection.

    There is no guarantee of any protection from anything at all, but having a firearm is certainly better than having nothing. I carry, but I'm also a competition shooter now and easily more competent than 95% of random gang members or thugs.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    People can defend themselves without lead slugs propelled from a tube by explosive powder

    Large men generally can.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    @abarker that six foot attacker probably wouldn't have a gun, if it was in the UK.

    That's kind of the point.

    God created men, Samuel Colt made them equal.



  • Well speaking for myself, it's more an aversion to people being allowed to carry handguns around at all, other than in a locked case on your way to a proper shooting range.


  • mod

    @RaceProUK said:

    In that situation, if you're unable to reason with the attacker, having a gun yourself may only make the situation worse. Unless you're absolutely sure you can get an accurate shot off first, having your own firearm is no guarantee of protection.

    1. If someone's decide they are going to attack you, especially with a firearm, it's already too late to reason with them.
    2. People with a CCW are taught to evaluate each situation individually before drawing their weapons. It is drilled into them from day one. Also, if you have a CCW, you should be spending at least a few hours a month at the range with your carry weapon(s). This ensures that your firearm is in proper working condition and that you have the necessary accuracy.
    3. You're absolutely right that it is no guarantee of protection, but it certainly increases the odds greatly. I don't think anything can guarantee protection, other than a personal, impenetrable bubble. But that's no way to live a life.


  • Well quite simply, I don't think I would feel safer in any circumstance with a gun in my hand - indeed rather the contrary. Without, I can run away, I can shout for help, and I can also stay still and quiet and be no threat. With, I'm a danger so I'm a target so I'm only safe if I both can and will fire first, always hit, and kill instantly - assuming they have guns too so only need a moment to kill me.

    But I do feel a lot safer without the people around me having guns in their hands.

    ...weren't all these posts moved? I thought I was on the new thread. I'm confused. If I'm posting this in the wrong place I do apologise.



  • Why wouldn't that six foot guy have a gun? Look, if you're already a robber or a murderer, having an illegal gun is pretty much a non-issue at that point. Not to mention that if you obtain a weapon through the legal channels, you and your gun I think are registered.

    What happens is that either "bad guys have guns, but so do the good guys, so bad guys think twice before pulling them out" or "bad guys still have guns, and good guys can only sit like ducks".


  • SockDev

    They were moved. As will these two be moved I guess :laughing:

    Oh look! They were moved! :smile:

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->


  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Why wouldn't that six foot guy have a gun?

    There's a chance, but muggers and burglars rarely do here. That's what I mean by not having a gun culture.


  • mod

    @CarrieVS said:

    @abarker that six foot attacker probably wouldn't have a gun, if it was in the UK

    So? I don't live in the UK. Nor do I plan to.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    "bad guys have guns, but so do the good guys, so bad guys think twice before pulling them out"

    a.k.a. Texas

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    "bad guys still have guns, and good guys can only sit like ducks"

    a.k.a. France. :frowning:



  • Well yes. That's my point. I've made it clear that I'm not suggesting the US would be well served by banning guns. I am, however, very glad I don't live there.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    I feel the possible benefits of allowing people to walk around with handguns are outweighed by all the reasons it's just asking for trouble.

    So, this is never going to make the jump from an emotional argument to a fact-based one? The US has permissive gun laws and a lot of gun deaths (although most are suicides). Worldwide, there isn't a good correlation between permissiveness of gun laws and deaths by guns. Something is up in the US, but the problem isn't the gun laws.

    You are no safer walking down a dark alley in London than you are in the New York.


  • mod

    @CarrieVS said:

    people don't walk around in fear for their lives unless they have the capability to kill someone with a twitch of their index finger

    :rolleyes: You're talking like we walk around with guns in our hands.

    First off, I'm not in constant fear of my life, but I do believe in being prepared (Yay, Boy Scouts!). Things happen, and I'd rather be prepared than caught flat footed.

    Second off, just the knowledge that a gun is present will sometimes scare off an attacker. If that's all it takes, I'll be happy.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    I suppose I could grab a pointy stick, but I prefer something a bit more effective. ;)

    Like a banana!

    Filed under: Monty Python references will never ever stop being funny no matter how many times I post them



  • @abarker said:

    You're talking like we walk around with guns in our hands.

    Doing so would be considered brandishing which is highly illegal in most jurisdictions. Concealed means concealed.



  • @abarker said:

    You're talking like we walk around with guns in our hands.

    You talk like you consider yourself in danger unless you have it ... not in your hand, but close at hand.



  • @abarker said:

    You're talking like we walk around with guns in our hands.

    Yeah, this is just one of those things that's gotten stuck in the heads of all those cosmopolitan foreigners, like how you can't go anywhere without seeing guns or getting shot at and everyone is in bankruptcy over medical bills.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    You talk like you consider yourself in danger unless you have it ... not in your hand, but close at hand.

    I see it like my car insurance card. You don't need it, until you do. It's not hurting anything sitting there unused.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    I've made it clear that I'm not suggesting the US would be well served by banning guns. I am, however, very glad I don't live there.

    Part of the reason that you are getting such a strong reaction is due to the cultural differences you pointed out and the fact that many of us are used to people that don't like guns saying "yes ban them".

    @CarrieVS said:

    You talk like you consider yourself in danger unless you have it ... not in your hand, but close at hand.

    How this is actually done (for the most part) is making a decision such as "this situation will be more dangerous" thus carry at said time. It is the restriction from being able to make such a determination that makes our skin crawl.



  • @mott555 said:

    It's not hurting anything sitting there unused.

    That's highly debatable. But I see this all through the lens of my own experiences. Maybe I'm being stupid, but the initial point was that America scares me. So do many other things. Perhaps Britain should too. As @Blakeyrat will tell you, I am a gigantic coward wussy-wimp.

    Good grief this was just a throwaway comment that I like my own country better than yours. I thought you people were all about the patriotism.


  • mod

    @CarrieVS said:

    You talk like you consider yourself in danger unless you have it

    I believe I said that I don't consider myself in constant danger, I just believe in being prepared. Oh, right here. In the post you just replied to.

    @CarrieVS said:

    not in your hand, but close at hand.

    Well, then you don't understand concealed carry. It takes considerably more than a "twitch of a finger" to use a concealed firearm. For most concealed carry setups you have to:

    1. Reach behind your back.
    2. Lift you shirt.
    3. Grab your firearm.
    4. Unholster it.
    5. Bring it around front.
    6. If carrying without a round chambered, chamber a round. For some revolver models, cock the hammer.
    7. Point at target.
    8. Then squeeze the trigger. A twitch won't do as the trigger pull will require multiple pounds of force.

    Since this isn't exactly an easily hidden process, this is one reason that each situation must be individually evaluated (as I pointed out before).



  • @CarrieVS said:

    Good grief this was just a throwaway comment that I like my own country better than yours. I thought you people were all about the patriotism.

    I disagree with you, but you certainly have a right to your opinion. Some of us in the U.S. just have a knee-jerk reaction to anything which can be viewed as anti-gun, mostly because the anti-gunners over here are obsessively attacking us law-abiding gun owners over what all the inner-city gangs and the occasional crazy are doing. I guess by this point the reaction is just pure reflex.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @abarker said:

    a six foot attacker, approximately 250

    At that age, he''s probably not much of a threat. Unless he has a gun


  • SockDev

    <!-- Emoji'd by MobileEmoji 0.2.0-->


  • @abarker said:

    I believe I said that I don't consider myself in constant danger, I just believe in being prepared. Oh, right here. In the post you just replied to.

    You misunderstand me, let me explain myself better. I meant that you were talking in a way I interpreted as being somewhat like that previously/gun proponents in general tend to, and to imply acknowledgement that you'd explained that wasn't the case.

    @abarker said:

    Well, then you don't understand concealed carry. It takes considerably more than a "twitch of a finger" to use a concealed firearm.

    Well in the first place I wasn't talking about concealed carry. I was talking about carry.
    But I would consider within reach to be close at hand, and my earlier statement about 'a twitch of the finger' was ambiguously worded. I meant having the means to kill someone with no more effort than a twitch of the finger, not necessarily being able to do it in an instant.


  • Fake News

    @CarrieVS said:

    I wasn't talking about concealed carry. I was talking about carry.

    Most cops here carry pistols, in the open. The scary part is, many non-cops who carry actually have better training, more practice and more restraint with their firearms than many cops do.
    @CarrieVS said:
    I meant having the means to kill someone with no more effort than a twitch of the finger, not necessarily being able to do it in an instant.

    Better stop driving a car then. A twitch of the finger (or the hand), and you can easily run over a bicyclist.



  • @lolwhat said:

    The scary part is, many non-cops who carry actually have better training,

    It's pretty rare for a cop to join in on our local pistol competitions, but when they do they almost always place near dead-last :fearful:. Most of them get their 100 rounds a year in to qualify and that's it, no additional training or practice whatsoever.



  • @CarrieVS said:

    the initial point was that America scares me.

    It's working!


  • mod

    @CarrieVS said:

    I was talking about carry.

    Many states don't permit open carry, so that's generally a non-issue. And, as @mott555 already pointed out, carrying in your hand:

    @mott555 said:

    would be considered brandishing which is highly illegal in most jurisdictions.

    Not to mention people would consider you a threat and you'd probably end up dead.

    So what do you mean by "carry"?


  • SockDev

    wait.... i go to a meeting and we start another firearms flame war‽

    at this rate i'll need to start buying popcorn in bulk!


  • mod

    @accalia said:

    wait.... i go to a meeting and we start another firearms flame war‽

    at this rate i'll need to start buying popcorn in bulk!

    Just grow your own!



  • Do we have a law on the frequency of flamewar topics yet? Though this one seemed a bit polite to be called a flamewar IMO. Maybe more of a war near an artificial fireplace.


  • SockDev

    @abarker said:

    Just grow your own

    with all the flames around here? no way! it'd pop itself before it got anywhere near full grown!


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.