How to ask for a raise?



  • hi all, longtime lurker, firstime poster. sorry for writin' style, gotta cover trax. work for an it consulting firm. they bill me out at $x/hr. buttuming 1800 billed hr/yr, gross yrly rev to my employer is $1800x. my gross salary, plus company-paid perqs, is maybe $1100x. if i get a good bonus, i'm hitting $1200x or so before taxes. i'm staff aug at client, so i have client-provided desk, pc, etc. (employer prides itself on minimal overhead). client pretty much wants to keep me "forever." how would you ask for raise in that sitch?


  • sockdevs

    If they want to keep you, it seems you already have an advantage. Just ask politely ;)

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  • Seems like a negotiation with your client is good for both of you. You negotiate a salary much higher than now, and they still pay less due to ditching the parent company.

    Just check your contacts and make sure there's no stings


  • sockdevs

    I'd start by doing some research and finding out how much you are paid compared to your job responsibilities, are you pretty close to market rate? above (it does happen)? below?

    Thanks to the new HR trend of "personalized titles" that may be harder than it was five years ago.

    Next compare your work to that of your employers expectations? What have been some really great wins you've done?(from their perspective, not yours or the clients)

    Now that you're armed with this knowledge, ask politely, bring up your salary compared to market rate, and your performance, particularly your wins. This usually works well.

    if they say yes then win! If they say no, well maybe it's time to start quietly looking for a replacement. (maybe see if the client you work for wants to hire you directly. if they're happy with you they probably will!)


  • mod

    Some decent advice here:


  • :belt_onion:

    From my experience, a 40% cut on IT consultants is about average... so your best bet is probably with the client. (180k * 0.40 = 72k; 180k - 72k = 110k)



  • @algorythmics said:

    Seems like a negotiation with your client is good for both of you.

    this bein' the states, I woodn't get o/t for extra hrs worked. i cood git dumped on e-z.



  • Screw the consulting firm, ask the company whose desk, pc, etc you're sitting at for conversion to full-time. Start salary negotiation fresh from that point.



  • @nominus said:

    this bein' the states, I woodn't get o/t for extra hrs worked. i cood git dumped on e-z.

    Ok you know what? I changed my mind. You don't have the communication skills to get a raise. Go back to Burger King, that's my new advice. I have very little patience for bullshit.


  • mod

    @nominus said:

    sorry for writin' style, gotta cover trax

    I am insanely curious what "trax" you think you're covering here....


  • sockdevs

    @blakeyrat said:

    I have very little patience for bullshit.

    We'd noticed.

    @Yamikuronue said:

    I am insanely curious what "trax" you think you're covering here....

    At a guess it's because he knows someone who also frequents here and that it might not be a good thing if they knew who sits behind the @nominus mask?



  • Time Trax (1993-1994). Criminals from the future have gained access to a time machine and hidden themselves in the past. One cop, Darien Lambert, has to go back in time and return them to justice, aided only by his credit-card-sized artificial intelligence companion, Selma.


  • mod

    Ah, I see. So clearly the cop's AI went through the wash, leading to the spellcheck module shorting out; he's been stranded in 2015, struggling to make enough money to get parts to repair the time machine functions so he can continue his mission. Curiosity satisfied!



  • @accalia said:

    At a guess it's because he knows someone who also frequents here and that it might not be a good thing if they knew who sits behind the @nominus mask?

    winner winner chicken dinner!


  • sockdevs

    And to think I was going to make some joke about insuring his SUV:

    Or maybe his releasing an album:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAX_(band)

    Oh well :smile:

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  • @nominus said:

    this bein' the states, I woodn't get o/t for extra hrs worked. i cood git dumped on e-z.

    Heh, if it wasn't for this, I'd think I know who you are.

    Anyway, we've had another guy on the team do exactly what Blakey said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Screw the consulting firm, ask the company whose desk, pc, etc you're sitting at for conversion to full-time. Start salary negotiation fresh from that point.

    and he seemed fairly satisfied. It makes sense to go through a consulting company if you're gonna jump around jobs, but in this case I'd probably cut out the middle man.



  • From what I can figur - back-of-envelope style - you're doing OK from the perspective of your cut of what the client is billed.

    Make sure you find out why the client has you sub-contracted for... instead of having used a recruiter to find you.

    The client may have some kind of sub-contracting checkmark they need to get.

    As @accalia points out - do your research as best you can.



  • The percentages seem about standard (60/40) for most USA situations. I agree about looking into why the client company is using contractor staff-aug rather than direct employee's. That may shine significant light...


  • :belt_onion:

    Yes, you definitely want to make sure the job offer from the client is truly PERMANENT. Not just permanent until the end of the current project.



  • "Permament" should never be used with a job description in the USA since the lawsuit (settled out of court) filed in California about 6 years ago. The plantiff sued that he could not be terminated for any reason due to the word "permanent" appearing in the job agreement, and the lack of any specific violation on his part of said agreement.

    While the specific were not revealed, it is believe that the settlement was for nearly 10 years salary.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    While the specific were not revealed, it is believe that the settlement was for nearly 10 years salary.

    At that point couldn't you just put them on mailroom, janitorial, or something else so that you get something out of that payment (and it's spread over time so it isn't as much money (plus they may quit before 10 years))?


  • :belt_onion:

    damn pedants. you know what I meant!


  • sockdevs

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    "Permament" should never be used with a job description in the USA since the lawsuit (settled out of court) filed in California about 6 years ago. The plantiff sued that he could not be terminated for any reason due to the word "permanent" appearing in the job agreement, and the lack of any specific violation on his part of said agreement.

    ......

    okay. that's it. first thing i'm going to do when i take over the world is give every judge a gun and tell them to shoot any lawyer that brings a frivolous suit to court and also to shoot any lawyer that deliberately tries to delay any court proceedings without a DAMN good reason.

    The judges will be provided with unlimited free ammunition, training and as much time at the gun range as the want.

    They'll also be exempt from any criminal charges or civil suits resulting from the wounding or killing of lawyers in their courtroom while court is in session.

    sure it's cruel and unusual, but at that point i'll be a foxy tyrant ruling with a topaz fist. the people should be glad i actually let them file lawsuits in the first place!


  • sockdevs

    @accalia said:

    okay. that's it. first thing i'm going to do when i take over the world is give every judge a gun and tell them to shoot any lawyer that brings a frivolous suit to court and also to shoot any lawyer that deliberately tries to delay any court proceedings without a DAMN good reason.

    The judges will be provided with unlimited free ammunition, training and as much time at the gun range as the want.

    They'll also be exempt from any criminal charges or civil suits resulting from the wounding or killing of lawyers in their courtroom while court is in session.

    sure it's cruel and unusual, but at that point i'll be a foxy tyrant ruling with a topaz fist. the people should be glad i actually let them file lawsuits in the first place!


    So long as I remain your queen, I'm up for that ;)

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  • sockdevs

    of course! we will rule as a duumvirate!



  • @accalia said:

    and tell them to shoot any lawyer that brings a frivolous suit to court and also to shoot any lawyer that deliberately tries to delay any court proceedings without a DAMN good reason.

    FTFY


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @nominus said:

    gross yrly rev to my employer is $1800x. my gross salary, plus company-paid perqs, is maybe $1100x. if i get a good bonus, i'm hitting $1200x or so before taxes.

    I can overlook the writing style I suppose...

    If you are making ~60-65% of what you are bringing in, you are already overpaid. As others have mentioned, the standard is in the 30-40% range. You are unlikely to be able to talk them in to raising your pay. I sure would not go for it. Businesses are not 503c's.

    Now, this is all assuming that I understood you correctly as the "urban" persona makes your communication less than intelligible. If you want, you can PM me and talk in a more reasonable tone and we can try to make some sense of it.



  • INB4 @Polygeekery is @nominus' boss.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Unlikely. My guys can see the books anytime they want and get bonuses to make up salary based upon a percentage of gross profits they bring in, so their raise is effective when they are. ;)

    That would be a trip though if it turned out to be true...


  • BINNED

    @Polygeekery said:

    the "urban" persona makes your communication less than intelligible

    +1



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    it is believe that the settlement was for nearly 10 years salary.

    Great, so there's no actual precedent. I don't see a problem.

    Well, other than California's pretty fucked up.



  • So, Judge Dredd?



  • So here's what I recommend: ask your boss if he has a few minutes to talk sometime. Tell him it's important. But then be too busy to talk right away. Make him nervous a little so he thinks maybe you are going to quit.

    Then when the time comes, pull your dick out and thunk it down on his desk. Tell him you've had a crush on him since the beginning. Maintain eye contact the entire time. Do not get distracted by your dick! And don't let him get distracted by it either.

    So pour your heart out as convincingly as you can. Tell him about all the nice things there are about him. Stop looking at your dick!

    Then say, "So? What do you think? Do want to do this? Right here? Right now?"

    It will be awkward for a moment. Slowly tuck your schlong back inside your pants and zip up. Then smile real big and say, "Hey!! I'm kidding. Just thought that would be a fun prank to play on you. Oh, by the way, I'm really very good at my job, and I would like a raise. If you need to promote me to make that happen, I think there's ample justification for that. But I've earned a raise, one way or another. Let's have a talk about that sometime soon before I go to HR and tell them about how you just tried to have sex with me."

    Then walk out and go about your business.





  • This post is deleted!


  • @blakeyrat said:

    Ok you know what? I changed my mind. You don't have the communication skills to get a raise. Go back to Burger King, that's my new advice. I have very little patience for bullshit.


    Whoosh (sorry just doing my JOB) - b

    <!-- 6ab865b7-1b48-403b-b126-25fe3e0a8fa6 -->


  • I jeff'd 7 posts to a new topic as part of my job: Whoosheyrat



  • @boomzilla said:

    <img src="/uploads/default/15507/0f8a36dca8e3165c.png" width="304" height="373">

    <!-- 6ab865b7-1b48-403b-b126-25fe3e0a8fa6 -->

    :arrow_up: Well, that's sensible... :arrow_up:

    Anyway, REALLY PEOPLE?? :facepalm: B-rat knows exactly what he's doing...

    (...he even says so repeatedly!)


  • sockdevs

    @ijij said:

    Anyway, REALLY PEOPLE?? :facepalm: B-rat knows exactly what he's doing...

    Yeah, but he hates all the badge stuff. So it's funny to give him one occasionally :smile:

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  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @boomzilla said:

    Whoosh (sorry just doing my JOB) - b

    And you're doing a damn good job!



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Yeah, but he hates all the badge stuff. So it's funny to give him one occasionally :smile:

    And @blakeyrat got "Nice Post" and "Mediocre Poster" badges for it, too. :P


  • sockdevs

    @ijij said:

    (...he even says so repeatedly!)

    What i say three times is the truth.

    Umm..... what if you're wrong?

    Then I'm right. For I am a god among mortals, I cannot be wrong.

    Not a blakey conversation that, just one i thought somewhat relevant.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    If you are making ~60-65% of what you are bringing in, you are already overpaid. As others have mentioned, the standard is in the 30-40% range. You are unlikely to be able to talk them in to raising your pay.

    Which raised my "sub-contractor checkbox" radar...

    If you're good at what you do, get better, and your co-workers at the client will be good contacts for the future - although they'll be unlikely to be able to hire you directly (unless your contract is specifically written for temp-to-perm).



  • @ijij said:

    although they'll be unlikely to be able to hire you directly (unless your contract is specifically written for temp-to-perm)

    Depending on where he is, the "can't go to work for a client" clauses have been ruled unenforceable in at least some jurisdictions; they are still included in the contracts mostly to intimidate uninformed people. My current employer paid my former employer a fairly nominal amount (a few k$) to waive the clause just to avoid any possible litigation (which they would have won, but it was less expensive to pay up front; of course this just encourages them to keep that clause in the contract).



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    Depending on where he is, the "can't go to work for a client" clauses have been ruled unenforceable in at least some jurisdictions;

    For the situation(s) I'm thinking of, you'd be afoul of rules and contracts up and down the chain, and his client would be really unlikely to bother with it.



  • @ijij said:

    For the situation(s) I'm thinking of

    I don't know what situations you're thinking of; my experience is with a simple staff augmentation at an ordinary, private-sector, non-government-contractor company, with a short-term contract that was renewed repeatedly but which both parties knew wouldn't be renewed much longer. (Two of my fellow contractors were already out. They had houses and families elsewhere, and weren't interested in converting to permanent. My contract was being renewed basically just to keep me there until they could finish the hiring process.)



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    I don't know what situations you're thinking of; my experience is with a simple staff augmentation at an ordinary, private-sector, non-government-contractor company,

    Think of the polar opposite situation...



  • Yeah, that's why I said that about my experience.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @HardwareGeek said:

    simple staff augmentation

    I'm not sure if that sounds like they're implanting something awesome or implanting something lewd. Or both, but maybe that wouldn't be simple any more?



  • Augmenting the staff of the staff? I'm sure you can find email about how to do that if you look in your spam folder.


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