Windows 10 Upgrade to be Free as in Beer (if you don't have an MS account, come in here and @blakeyrat will give you $50)

boomzilla

How many do you have?

I knew both of my grandmothers and one great grandmother.

Gąska

I have 3 1080p monitors at work. The ability to put the task bar on all three of them is one of those "super nice to have" things but not quite in the realm of, "so nice to have I'm willing to install a buggy, crashy third-party app that kind of does it but breaks a ton of other shit".

For me, it is. So I'm waiting for Windows 10. The choice between 7 to 8.1 is the choice of having good start menu and terrible multimonitor taskbar vs. good multimonitor taskbar and terrible start menu. And I want both.

blakeyrat

I haven't used the Start menu since Vista, and I honestly don't understand the desire to go back to one.

izzion

@Gaska said:

and terrible start menu

TDEMSYR.

I honestly have no idea how any power user can consider the W8.1 Start interface to be terrible. Win + the first three letters of whatever you're looking for, presto-clicko, you're in the program! No clutter, no muss, no fuss.

mott555

@izzion said:

I honestly have no idea how any power user can consider the W8.1 Start interface to be terrible. Win + the first three letters of whatever you're looking for, presto-clicko, you're in the program! No clutter, no muss, no fuss.

Yes, it works exactly the same as the W7 start menu!

Jaloopa

@izzion said:

first three letters

The critical part that people who make snarky comments about start search == CLI miss. You see context immediately without needing tab complete type stuff. It's like intellisense for your whole computer

izzion

And in reality, you don't even need specifically the first three letters. For most things, start screen search's heuristic will successfully match any sub-string of the program's name. As long as you spell better than @accalia at least...

Gąska

@blakeyrat said:

I haven't used the Start menu since Vista, and I honestly don't understand the desire to go back to one.

And obviously I'm the one Doint It Wrong™.

@izzion said:

I honestly have no idea how any power user can consider the W8.1 Start interface to be terrible.

It takes the whole screen, for starters.

@izzion said:

Win + the first three letters of whatever you're looking for, presto-clicko, you're in the program!

And if you don't know the first three letters? Like, I wouldn't be able to tell from memory what exactly is the "run command prompt with all Visual Studio stuff set up in environment variables" shortcut called; only knew it was in "Visual Studio" directory (real example of me being annoyed at Start Screen). I hate scrolling horizontally when looking for something.

Also:
@mott555 said:

Yes, it works exactly the same as the W7 start menu!

@izzion said:

And in reality, you don't even need specifically the first three letters. For most things, start screen search's heuristic will successfully match any sub-string of the program's name.

It didn't work that time.

accalia

@izzion said:

As long as you spell better than @accalia at least...

i speel plernty gud!

i just type to fast and don't proofread....letters get mixed up a bit, and if i'm using Swype sometimes the wrong potato comes out.

Jaloopa

@izzion said:

And in reality, you don't even need specifically the first three letters. For most things, start screen search's heuristic will successfully match any sub-string of the program's name. As long as you spell better than @accalia at least...

Yes. An example I've had a few times, until I added it to the start screen, is IIS. Typing that into the start screen auto completes to "iis) Manager", which is the end of "Internet Information Services(iis) Manager"

izzion

If it's something that the Start Search isn't finding, and you use it a lot, use a pin. Pin to Taskbar & Start Menu has existed since Vista, and now you have gobs more space for Start Menu pins.

And if you don't use it enough to warrant the pin, then I fail to see how it's a BFD that you have to go hunting for it when you need it. Since you more or less had to do that in the Classic Start Menu model too... "now which folder did that stupid thing wind up in again..."

mott555

To be fair, I don't like the Metro screen. But IMO it's not the end of the world, and I got used to it.

Gąska

@izzion said:

If it's something that the Start Search isn't finding, and you use it a lot, use a pin.

It was one-time thing.

@izzion said:

And if you don't use it enough to warrant the pin, then I fail to see how it's a BFD that you have to go hunting for it when you need it.

I needed it at the time, alright? Yes, Start Screen is 99% the same as Start Menu is, but the remaining 1% makes it worse than Start Menu, so all in all, it's worse, and thus a completely unnecessary change.

I have Windows 8 smartphone. My start screen there consists of just enough icons not to trigger scrolling. I think it says something about my character.

Jaloopa

@Gaska said:

something about my character

You enjoy Doing It Wrong?

Gąska

@Jaloopa said:

You enjoy Doing It Wrong?

Might be. I've also never used more than one desktop space on Linux.

aliceif

@Gaska said:

I've also never used more than one desktop space on Linux.

You never used a good window manager, did you?

RaceProUK

@aliceif said:

You never used a good window manager, did you?

Or @Gaska's happier with multiple monitors?

Onyx

@RaceProUK said:

Or @Gaska's happier with multiple monitors?

I multimonitor my multiple workspaces.

accalia

@RaceProUK said:

Or @Gaska's happier with multiple monitors?

multimonitor on linux and i still use multiple desktops.

although i generally only flip between two, rather than using the full four or six i tend to use when i only have the one monitor.

Keith

@accalia said:

although i generally only flip between two, rather than using the full four or six i tend to use when i only have the one monitor.

I use up to eight on my work laptop (single monitor), but six is probably the optimal number for me before it becomes confusing.

Gąska

@aliceif said:

You never used a good window manager, did you?

I tried out AwesomeWM, but the GUI is all fucked up on VirtualBox for some reason. Also, there's no guide how to configure it. I'd die for a mouse-controlled tiling window manager with taskbar and window group tagging. But Windows way is far easier to set up and use.

accalia

XFCE4 works well for me.

it's not as good as GNOME2 was but it's better than GNOME3 and i can't touch KDE, not after they went "vista"

Onyx

@Keith said:

@accalia said:
although i generally only flip between two, rather than using the full four or six i tend to use when i only have the one monitor.

I use up to eight on my work laptop (single monitor), but six is probably the optimal number for me before it becomes confusing.

I only have 4 set up as a constant layout, but since Cinnamon stole one of the few good ideas Gnome Shell had I add and remove them as needed on the fly. I'm mostly fine with 4 though since I tend to group windows I'll never need at the same time (but logically belong, like 3 different browsers) on the same workspace and use ~~expo~~ scale to switch between them.

Gąska

@accalia said:

XFCE4 works well for me.

And it's 100% The Windows Way, with overlaying windows and all. I'm using it myself.

cvi

@Gaska said:

Just to recap, Windows 10 will:

be a free upgrade,

become rolling release,

get improved command prompt (terminal),

have an integrated package manager.

It makes me wonder if the kernel is still NT or will it be Linux.

Don't forget virtual desktops.

(I hope they're not switching to X11 for the display stuff, though. )

rad131304

@Gaska said:

- have an integrated package manager.

Except, IIRC, it will be based on Chocolatey; I'm pretty sure that @apapadimoulis has ~~ranted~~ explained why that is not necessarily a good thing. Though it's an improvement over the status quo, I agree.

Gąska

@cvi said:

(I hope they're not switching to X11 for the display stuff, though. )

Wayland maybe?

apapadimoulis

The major problem with Chocolately is that it’s based on NuGet. But if you can look past that, it’s fine.

The package manager you mention… the (Powershell?) team is making something called “OneGet”. Which is sorta/kinda/not-really a competitor to Chocolatey.

Also, the ASP.NET team is making another package manager, “KPM”, for their vNext/2015 platform. Which is sorta based on NuGet, but not really.

So it’s a bit of a clusterfuck, but not nearly the magnitude of Linux. They’re trying though.

tar

@Jaloopa said:

My grandma always asks this, about everything, even with right click

I don't think any of my grandparents ever owned a computer. The fact that computers were even a thing was fairly peripheral to their lives. My folks (who are now in their seventies) are pretty computer-literate though. My ma even has an iPad...

Weng

Wait, what? Win8 has a fucking multi-monitor taskbar? Without bullshit third party junk?

WHY HAS NOBODY EVER FUCKING MENTIONED THIS? THAT'S A GOD DAMNED GAME CHANGER.

blakeyrat

I've mentioned it on this site like 40 times. And it's not like the new features are a well-kept secret or anything.

accalia

@Weng said:

Wait, what? Win8 has a fucking multi-monitor taskbar?

it does. a damn sweet one too.

@Weng said:

WHY HAS NOBODY EVER FUCKING MENTIONED THIS?

You never asked me.

rad131304

@Weng said:

Wait, what? Win8 has a fucking multi-monitor taskbar? Without bullshit third party junk?

WHY HAS NOBODY EVER FUCKING MENTIONED THIS? THAT'S A GOD DAMNED GAME CHANGER.

Also, if you want multiple desktops, just download sysinternals

Edit: direct download for multiple desktop application

Edit 2: actually it doesn't really work well in 8. You can't get to the start screen from the secondary desktops.

loopback0

It's actually the only thing that makes me wish I had Windows 8 on my work desktop.

izzion

Though, I will note, the multi-monitor taskbar ~~will~~ may have difficulties with legacy applications that do stupid things for how they put their icon in the taskbar. If you set the taskbar up to only show program icons on the monitor they're open on (and, honestly, why wouldn't you?)... and if your legacy application is too stupid, then its icon will always stay on Monitor 1's taskbar, regardless of where you move it to.

Why yes, our billing software behaves that way, why do you ask?

boomzilla

@izzion said:

If you set the taskbar up to only show program icons on the monitor they're open on (and, honestly, why wouldn't you?).

Not on windows, but I don't do this. Now, if my mouse happens to be on one screen, but I want to bring something to the front, I don't have to move my cursor to the monitor where that program is currently.

accalia

@izzion said:

Why yes, our billing software behaves that way, why do you ask?

hmm... i think i know the software.... does it also freak out like crazy when one or mor of the following is true:

your desktop is non rectangular (one monitor portrait) and the portrait monitor extends above the top of the primary monitor
You put your task bar on the top of your monitors, WHERE IT DAMN WELL SHOULD BE
you open Internet explorer after launching the app but before the app has logged you in (i have no idea why ours does this but it's really annoying to some of our users.)

izzion

Can't say I've tested those use cases. But this software completely shits itself if you try to double-click to maximize it (at which point it tries to maximize across all monitors and dies). Yet, it will maximize to the current display quite well if you just anchor it to the top-center. Or however you describe that Aero thingy.