Petition To Move Off Latest


  • mod

    Continuing the discussion from And back out:

    @izzion said:

    I'm totally willing to sign onto a community petition to switch us to a more stable branch and move us out of the alpha testing gig. I just don't have a ton(ne) of confidence that we'll get anywhere with said petition 😛

    Whereas we, the likers are poster of this topic, are sick of frequent new bugs and regressions; and Whereas it is our understanding that the what.thedailywtf.com instance of Discourse is on a Latest update schedule; and Inasmuch as our efforts to seek out a new forum platform have proven fruitless, we do hereby issue the following petition.

    We hereby request that the instance of Discourse known as what.thedailywtf.com be shifted to either the Beta or, more preferrably, the Stable update schedule.


    Attn: @apapadimoulis, Esq, MD, FACS, MBA, eMBA



  • Seconded.


  • Fake News

    Aye!



  • Latest means updated as often as possible, like Firefox Nightly, right?


  • mod

    @anonymous234 said:

    Latest means updated as often as possible, like Firefox Nightly, right?

    Yes.

    • Latest - updated whenever possible.
    • Beta - some testing has been done
    • Stable - thoroughly tested.


  • @abarker said:

    Stable - thoroughly tested.

    But I thought it was us that did that part.


  • mod

    @Magus said:

    But I thought it was us that did that part.

    AIUI, there are other forums on stable. Let them do the testing.



  • @abarker said:

    AIUI, there are other forums on stable. Let them do the testing.

    TRWTF: Suggesting that DTWTF shouldn't be the ones to find all the WTFs.





  • Fuck Discourse.

    That's a vote.



  • @Magus said:

    But I thought it was us that did that part.

    That's the suspicion. And the problem.



  • Woo, I'm in! I couldn't reply to the topic because I was getting infinispinner at the end of the last post and the controls weren't loading. Managed to reply to @PleegWat's post though.

    Please put us on a stable version. 😞

    EDIT:
    Btw, I also couldn't (and still can't) access the new topic I created, if that helps anyone with debugging that problem.


  • SockDev

    +1 for the fancy talk but i am abstaining from voting.

    Sorry?



  • I'm alright either way, but given the quality of Discourse, how many bugs are we actually avoiding by not updating to get the bugfixes that inevitably break things as well?

    I'd say it's a net loss of 0 bugs.



  • Maybe we should switch to the "Super Stable" update schedule: only upgrade when there's a security hole, site-breaking bug or new major version.



  • So, always update constantly?



  • Beta: same glaring holes as Latest, but with hacks to make them less visible.



  • @abarker said:

    Stable - thoroughly tested

    Does Discourse have one of these?



  • Yeah, I think it is more like:
    Latest - updated whenever possible
    Beta - Latest frozen at some point convenient
    Stable - Beta frozen at some point convenient



  • @loopback0 said:

    Does Discourse have one of these?

    I wouldn't call our testing thorough, so no. Course it will get worse if we aren't doing their testing anymore.



  • To me, the Discourse bleeding-edge is part of the entertainment value here... *ducks



  • @anonymous234 said:

    Maybe we should switch to the "Super Stable" update schedule: only upgrade when there's a security hole, site-breaking bug

    Wuss. We haven't had Community Server updated for what, five years? There were more site-breaking bugs that you could count.

    @anonymous234 said:

    or new major version.

    Then they'll make every release a major version to spite us. Worked with 1.0...

    Personally, I vote no - while Discourse is not nearly as breakable as it was thanks to our valiant efforts, it still doesn't stop being amusing to see yet another thing break - but meh, whatever.

    The only problem I see is that everybody else seems to either drink the bug-flavored Kool-Aid, or just fucks that noise and not use Discourse, so I kinda doubt there will be many efforts to actually fix stuff without feedback from here...



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Discourse is not nearly as breakable as it was thanks to our valiant efforts

    ...fix stuff... ...feedback from here...

    *



  • Weird bugs like that are bad, but not a show-stopper.

    Having the entire effing site in a font size that's too small to read on one of the most popular browserst that there is, that's just unforgivable.



  • It took me four fucking goes to open this topic without seeing the inifnispinner and now it's doing it for the last post. I've rarely seen this on mobile and now i see it more often than actual content.

    Yo - @codinghorror @sam - whatever you did has fucked this. Fix it. Please?



  • TRWTF is using Latest/Beta releases on a production site.
    TRRWTF is using a site about WTFs to beta test a product that we didn't have any interest in using in the first place.



  • @abarker said:

    Yes.

    Latest - updated whenever possible.
    Beta - some testing has been done
    Stable - thoroughly tested.

    Eh...not really. "Latest" means it's passed their automated suite. For any of these, getting the site to actually update requires action by an admin. The Latest branch gets lots of updates. The other stuff...less frequently. It looks like beta was last updated 4 days ago. See here for details of the differences:



  • @boomzilla said:

    Eh...not really. "Latest" means it's passed their automated suite.

    Wow, you have a lot of faith in these guys.



  • @Magus said:

    Wow, you have a lot of faith in these guys.

    :not sure if trolling.gif:

    I take them at their word that their configuration management is what it is. And wanted to clarify what @abarker said, as he seemed to be confusing site updates with available updates relative to a release stream.



  • @boomzilla said:

    :not sure if trolling.gif:

    Mostly.

    But at the same time, one of the things automated tests are really good at is preventing _



  • @Magus said:

    But at the same time, one of the things automated tests are really good at is preventing

    Yes. I'm not saying that their test suite seems adequate. Just that it's the official gate keeper for the latest / tests-passed branch.



  • @Magus said:

    Mostly.

    But at the same time, one of the things automated tests are really good at is preventing _

    Not sure that I agree, but look at how long it took to find that bug. And it only comes up again when people intentionally bring it up. I find that a smaller bug than the small text, the white pages, and the posts not baking.



  • @chubertdev said:

    Not sure that I agree, but look at how long it took to find that bug. And it only comes up again when people intentionally bring it up. I find that a smaller bug than the small text, the white pages, and the posts not baking.

    That's all true, but it's still a pretty big bug. I mean...displaying text that users enter is, like the main job of a forum. And they have something that vomits all over people's posts. WTF DISCOURSE!

    And it's been floating around here for how long?



  • The thing about automated testing and unit testing in particular is that you think about certain things:

    Does formatting work?
    Does nested formatting work?
    Does escaping work with formatting?

    ...and apparently those tests were not all written.

    @boomzilla said:

    And it's been floating around here for how long?

    And this is my main point in bringing it up.



  • @Magus said:

    and apparently those tests were not all written

    FTFY, or at least that is what it looks like.



  • @chubertdev said:

    that bug.

    FYI, I've bumped that one over at meta:

    One of the best examples of the fail in using a forum as an issue tracker.



  • @boomzilla said:

    One of the best examples of the fail in using a forum as an issue tracker.

    No doubt about that.

    But I think it's still relatively minor, I bet it's probably never happened even once on most instances.



  • @Magus said:

    Does formatting work?Does nested formatting work?Does escaping work with formatting?

    Yeah, this should be simple stuff to automate. Pass some text into the black box and make sure that what comes out is sensible.

    The CSS WTFery, maybe not so much.



  • @chubertdev said:

    But I think it's still relatively minor,

    The more I think about it, the more major it gets in my mind. Especially after a month of radio silence by the devs.



  • @boomzilla said:

    The more I think about it, the more major it gets in my mind. Especially after a month of radio silence by the devs.

    The response is definitely lacking. If they said "we're aware of the issue, but you're the only forum that this has happened for, and it's affecting all versions, so it's a low priority", that's different than dead silence.


  • mod

    @boomzilla said:

    as he seemed to be confusing site updates with available updates relative to a release stream.

    More like "Trying to keep it as simple as possible." I think my original description captures the spirit of each update schedule.


  • mod

    @chubertdev said:

    And it only comes up again when people intentionally bring it up.

    That's because we know about it.



  • @abarker said:

    I think my original description captures the spirit of each update schedule.

    I agree. And it certainly matches the way @PJH runs stuff around here.



  • I could probably emulate something akin to their Stable or Beta streams by rolling 1D100 every morning and updating the site only when a 42 comes up...

    But since we wouldn't be finding any new bugs sooner, but instead when we eventually get an update (since I'm sure none of the other forums would detect them - look at all the bugs we found after others had been using the software for ages) I'm not sure either method (1D100==42 or moving to Beta or Stable) would result in us experiencing fewer bugs. It would just be time-shifting them.


  • mod

    @PJH said:

    I could probably emulate something akin to their Stable or Beta streams by rolling 1D100 every morning and updating the site only when a 42 comes up...

    But since we wouldn't be finding any new bugs sooner, but instead when we eventually get an update (since I'm sure none of the other forums would detect them - look at all the bugs we found after others had been using the software for ages) I'm not sure either method (1D100==42 or moving to Beta or Stable) would result in us experiencing fewer bugs. It would just be time-shifting them.

    Damn it ... you're probably right.



  • This is fucking unusable on mobile now.

    Not even wanting to reply to this post, but the Reply button won't load.



  • Oh - and it still doesn't address getting extant bugs fixed any sooner either...

    (INB4 "they take ages as it is...")


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @PJH said:

    It would just be time-shifting them.

    I am fine with that. Let someone else do their alpha bug testing for a bit. I vote for at least trying the stable branch for a while. At the very least, we can all have a good laugh about all of the bugs we find in that, with it supposedly being the most bug-free.

    Question: If we were on stable, would I be able to browse this POS on my Android phone? If so, then my vote is a resounding yes. The bleeding edge is getting pretty tiring around here.

    Also, Tab + Enter not submitting posts is getting pretty fucking annoying.



  • @PJH said:

    I could probably emulate something akin to their Stable or Beta streams by rolling 1D100 every morning and updating the site only when a 42 comes up...

    But since we wouldn't be finding any new bugs sooner, but instead when we eventually get an update (since I'm sure none of the other forums would detect them - look at all the bugs we found after others had been using the software for ages) I'm not sure either method (1D100==42 or moving to Beta or Stable) would result in us experiencing fewer bugs. It would just be time-shifting them.

    QFT, because a like is not enough.



  • I like my software to be the bleeding edge (Firefox, Chromium, etc). OTOH, where will Jeff find so many IT literate whinnying whining users as here?


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