We searched Medline, Embase and Cochrane for the phrase bots are not funny
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@Intercourse said:
but she also does not troll others
This is not 100% accurate. She does mean well, but she does open the door to massive "trolling" with her bots.
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Did I show a bit of empathy? Yes. Can you tell the difference? I don't know.
Can you communicate the difference? Not especially well. As far as I see, you're just pushing your own agenda - if you're being empathetic here, good for you, but no gold star. And it doesn't change the argument.
I'm still not convinced you actually know what that is because I hear a lot of 'waaaah this place isn't what it used to be and all the new people are ruining this perfect place where I can share how miserable I am'.
Well, that's the theme - we're all miserable IT folks dealing with idiots on a daily basis. And that's official.
And yes, if what I get from your posts is right, you are screwing this place up for me - by not being able to take a joke. A snarky one, most of the time, but still a joke.
Are we forced to interact with you? The answer is "conditionally yes" - all the time you interject your opinion in debates, wanted or not, the rest of us are interacting on some level simply by having to either consciously or unconsciously ignore your bile.
Ignoring is the opposite of interaction.
Unfortunately you are prevalent just enough that every time I think I'm not going to encounter more of your bile, I find it right there.
What bile? Because outside from this thread and the Lounge one, I usually keep my mouth shut, even if some things on this forum do rile me up. And they do.
Unless you're going to count every single post showing even a modicum of snark or humour I've ever commited here - then well, I'm terribly sorry, but we're not going to find an agreement here, for reasons stated before.
I don't know about you, but I used to like coming here, and judging by some of the conversations I've had, other people like me coming here
Probably so. Most of the time, I enjoy your posts too. Doesn't change the fact that tolerating - or even fully accepting - someone does not imply adapting to someone.
That you have to exercise your 'right' to be an asshat because you can, because it's working for you on some level.
Oh hell yes it does, but that's irrelevant. I'm still thoroughly confused as to what, outside of this thread and the Lounge thread, posts of mine you consider to be examples of asshattery.
You know what's really funny? You're actually proving @codinghorror right on this issue.
Okay, that's a Godwin, discussion over. (Not really.)
You want an insular community that actively discourages new people coming in unless they can handle your level of vitriol as opposed to being broader-minded about what could happen with not being quite such a hardass about every fucking thing out there.
And you want an inclusive community that over time becomes bland and colorless, because everybody needs to feel here at home. And everyone needs to tread on their toes around every subject, in fear of upsetting someone. It's something that would probably make @boomzilla wake up at night screaming.
Look, this is a site dedicated to mockery. Officially. If people didn't hold strong opinions here, the discussions on bad code would make no sense - since all comments would be a variation of "well, there probably are some cases where that's useful, or maybe the poor dev was tired, and besites, it's not fun to laugh at people".
And sometimes those people have strong opinions on non-code subjects too. Not surprisingly.
something that felt meaningful
What, an Internet forum?
Kindred spirits and all that.
"Kindred spirits" does not mean a circlejerk.
As for limiting the bots to certain threads, there are quite a few members that don't seem to like the idea of restricting the bots to the testing threads.
And a few that wouldn't mind that. And a few that would like that. But apparently, it's okay to spam as anyone pleases, but not to hold a discussion this way.
I see little to no disadvantages of getting the bots bound to Programmers' Testing, One Post, and maybe the Likes thread. They're not useful in any way anyway, except as a proof of concept, and the amusement value really faded out for me. Actually, I'm surprised it hasn't for everyone.
she wasn't the one abusing the bots.
"But we didn't do any killing! We just gave soldiers the guns and told them they're for pointing at the enemy!"
Also, she was the person who could actually disable the bots. Which, frankly, is not a bad idea to me.
@Intercourse said:
She is the Switzerland of the forum.
Except for the discussion in question, where @accalia basically said "I'm gonna do what I want, since you're not a mod". Actually, that's somewhat fitting for Switzerland.
@Intercourse said:
Have an appropriate tone when talking to her
Because they're a special, beautiful and unique snowflake?
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Dave/bulliesbullyingbullies1.png
@Intercourse said:
If some of the logic in this conversation were used in real life, it would be like me talking like a New Yorker in front of someone's child
No, it would be like talking like a New Yorker in a smoke-filled, stenchy, New York pub. If there's a child there, the question isn't "whether you should stop swearing", the question is "what the fuck is that brat doing here".
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blakey in a nutshell
he'll post long diatribes about you not getting every single last detail right, but here's how he responds to pedantry:
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/driving-anti-patterns/3300/8?u=chubertdev
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She does mean well, but she does open the door to massive "trolling" with her bots.
The fact that you put quotes around that word shows you know it's not the same thing.
Or that you're trolling. Or "trolling." Or trawling for trolling.
Or maybe trowelling.
Speaking of which, I was listening to the evening talk radio show--not the political one--and they were talking about the worst Christmas gifts, and one guy called in to say his mom got him a Fleshlight. It's possible that wasn't a worst gift per se.
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This is not 100% accurate. She does mean well, but she does open the door to massive "trolling" with her bots.
I see what you are saying. I do not believe there is any intent for that to happen though. Intentions usually matter fuck-all when the outcome is poor.
I completely get what you are saying though. I just give her the benefit of the doubt. I have had a few good PM conversations with her and believe her to be a good person. Bots are just tools. She made them to be funny and functional, then some as shat comes along and spams threads with them.
The only bot that really bothers me is summonbot. It may as well have been named spambot.
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And I don't see why others should be told not to stand up for themselves just because it spares us some "drama."
I agree with you, and I choose to believe (I'm an optimist) that this thread is actually evidence that a person can stand up for themselves and receive widespread support from the community, and that issues can be worked through in a grown-up way. Even @ben_lubar, as I recall, stood up for himself last time @morbiuswilters showed up here and started spouting some ignorant garbage about mental health.
That said, I feel that not every community is going to be a good fit for every person, and that the faq does make it somewhat clear what type of community this is. In fact, at the moment, I'm campaigning for the inclusion of a ‘flamewars’ category, to better identify and advertise those threads where it can be understood that anything goes (within reason, obviously).
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his mom got him a Fleshlight
How is that the worst gift ever? Clearly his mum loves him very much (but not that way) and wanted him to be happy. BEST gift ever.
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Did ya not read the next sentence?
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I really don't have anything substantial to say, so here's a picture of Mitch McConnell being alarmed about something.
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Did ya not read the next sentence?
I may have mis-read the next sentence. Something something barrier something.
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I really don't have anything substantial to say
something something not a barrier etc.
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You know what's really, really funny about this?
blakey and maciej are basically complaining that the forum is being turned away from being a warzone by having 'freedoms curtailed' of a sort.
And yet... the price of the kind of freedom they want is to have the shit that goes with it.
You want the right to bitch and piss and moan about everyone and everything else? Don't fucking bitch about it when it happens to you.
Want the right to say what you want without apparent consequences? Don't bitch when others do exactly the same, if you can't handle the fact there will be consequences that aren't exactly what you like.
Goes both ways and you can't have the right to be an asshat without allowing for everyone else to be levels of asshat. In short, both blakey and maciej are the worst kind of hypocrite.
I don't want to be in a forum where every level of asshat is prevalent, if I wanted that, I'd hang out on 4chan.
As for the observation about waaaaambulances and 'coming here to bitch and moan'... yes, that's the core origin of this forum. Except there are two ways this goes. There is the 'bitch and moan and make everyone else feel as miserable as I am' crowd (blakey, maciej) and 'bitch and moan and get it out of my system with a bit of sympathy, commiseration and generally feeling better afterwards' (basically everyone else).
Here's the really fun observation: pretty much everyone else was OK with the bots in moderation, pretty much everyone else was OK with how things were going and it was basically only blakey and maciej that seemed opposed to how things were turning out. Might I suggest that if they don't like what the community itself was becoming, that they exercise the right they were suggesting the rest of us perhaps should?
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Here's the really fun observation: pretty much everyone else was OK with the bots in moderation, pretty much everyone else was OK with how things were going and it was basically only blakey and maciej that seemed opposed to how things were turning out.
The spark that started this wasn't "bots in moderation." But blakey did react more explosively than I have in the past.
I'm a big believer in countering speech with more speech. I try to start each new interaction with a particular poster as a new thing after yelling at each other. I know there are places where blakey and I have gotten along just fine.
I think topics like this are inevitable in any community. They seem to happen in every one I've been involved with long term. We need the catharsis occasionally. Some members may drop out, though that happens over time regardless.
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@Intercourse said:
it would be like me talking like a New Yorker in front of someone's child, they ask me to tone it down a bit as there is a toddler around and then I start screaming, "FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR CHILD!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU ARE OFFENDED!!"...and then I took a shit on their rug.
You mean this isn't normal behavior? Now it all makes sense why people were always giving me death glares!
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You mean this isn't normal behavior? Now it all makes sense why people were always giving me death glares!
Myself also. Miraculously my son has only said one curse word even though he is 3 years old now. Of course, that one time was when he yelled "FUCK 'EM!!" Apples and trees and all that...
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I'm not sure I've ever heard the rationale for not teaching youngsters curse words. Is it to protect their innocent minds? Is it to protect the ears of old ladies? It seems like they have no trouble learning them on their own, so at best, such practices are delaying the inevitable.
I would have similar questions about pornography. There's the argument that it will irreparably corrupt their sense of human relationships and make them generally pursue only One Thing™. However, I've met plenty of people with a traditional upbringing whose sole objective seems to be purely that.
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I'm not sure I've ever heard the rationale for not teaching youngsters curse words. Is it to protect their innocent minds? Is it to protect the ears of old ladies? It seems like they have no trouble learning them on their own, so at best, such practices are delaying the inevitable.
I will let you know my wife's answer to that the first time he curses in front of her. I am sure she will have a strong opinion on it.
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I'm not sure I've ever heard the rationale for not teaching youngsters curse words.
For me, it's mostly because young kids have no filters at all. They have no concept of when it is appropriate to say things, and when it is appropriate to hold back. Young children tend to have a difficult enough time filtering out things like "You're fat." Why bother giving them additional things that they need to filter?
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Way too sheltered. sigh
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We told our kids that curse words were inappropriate for them to use. In particular, we presume our daughter (13) uses them with friends, but that she is not allowed to use them around adults. And they aren't allowed to repeat anything they hear in songs, of course.
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Way too sheltered. sigh
Remember, I'm talking about three kids 5 and under here. But hey, if that's "too sheltered", I'm fine with it.
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You want the right to bitch and piss and moan about everyone and everything else? Don't fucking bitch about it when it happens to you.
That's... weird logic. So we can bitch about anything, but not that?
Want the right to say what you want without apparent consequences? Don't bitch when others do exactly the same, if you can't handle the fact there will be consequences that aren't exactly what you like.
Again - you say whatever you want, nobody forbids you. The problem is, though, that while Blakey blowing his top off does it for comedic value, you don't.
Hitler screaming at the top of his lungs in a Disney wartime cartoon is funny. Hitler ordering execution of millions of people is not.
As for the observation about waaaaambulances and 'coming here to bitch and moan'... yes, that's the core origin of this forum.
For fun. That's the part you're missing. We bitch and moan about how miserable our professional life is, and how we deal with morons on a daily basis, to get a laugh, not a pat on the back. Because we can handle it, and if we didn't, we would do something about it instead of just bitching and moaning.
There is the 'bitch and moan and make everyone else feel as miserable as I am' crowd (blakey, maciej) and 'bitch and moan and get it out of my system with a bit of sympathy, commiseration and generally feeling better afterwards' (basically everyone else).
No. There's a "bitch and moan for some sane, safe and consensual fun among the group of people who can identify with whatever's being bitched at and having them laugh at the stupidity of things" crowd, and the "bitch and moan because we want a pat on the back and a 'there, there' to go with it" crowd.
Here's the really fun observation: pretty much everyone else was OK with the bots in moderation,
The bots are off moderation. And people abused them, and that pissed other people off. But if the right you're defending on this forum is to spam threads with useless replies, well go for it.
I'm not opposed to the bots per se. Hell, I'm doing an API myself just to facilitate things like bots. But you guys have spent the last few months staring blankly with amusement at what amounts to
10 PRINT "YAY I'M ZOIDBERG" 20 GOTO 10Make the bots have some damn purpose, use them to enhance the forum, not to pollute it, and all'll be fine.
Might I suggest that if they don't like what the community itself was becoming, that they exercise the right they were suggesting the rest of us perhaps should?
Should I cast a vote on that? Are we on Big Brother now? Are you the Big Brother now?
Well then, if that's what you folks want.
