Gravatar is not auto-refreshed
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Yeah, that is the key reason its a privacy WTF.
Gravatar works the SAME WAY IT WORKED WHEN YOU IMPLEMENTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. In fact, I don't think it's changed in 10 years.
So why is there suddenly a problem now? Why the hell did you implement it in the first place if you were so concerned about everybody's privacy?
And you still haven't answered the most basic question: who the fuck are you to tell me what web services I want to use?! You're a software developer, you're not our personal dictator.
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Here's my Gravatar:
Here's the same link but without the
avatar/:
Here's the place that the QR code links to:
New community features for Google Chat and an update on Currents
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Note: This blog post outlines upcoming changes to Google Currents for Workspace users. For information on the previous deprecation of Googl...
My email address can be guessed pretty easily with that information. Especially because it's public on most websites that I go on. Because I'm not scared of spam emails - in fact, I only get them from my not-posted-anywhere-by-me university email address.
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ok? What point are you trying to get at? I mean, if you were paranoid about your email address leaking, why would you use a service that displays your email address publicly?
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He's just pointing out how he's nearly the opposite of a tinfoil hat wearing privacy nut.
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Exactly. So what's the problem with telling Gravatar my email address's hash? (a site that I would need to have already given my email address to for it to know what the hash corresponds to)
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Oh, ok.
Have a tinfoil cupcake:
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Yeah, that is the key reason its a privacy WTF.
I'm a dude with a pink hedgehog avatar. That makes me pretty fucking identifiable already.This is security theatre.
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"beacon" thing
Images expire every 5 minutes so we end clients are constantly pinging Gravatar.
So Gravatar know that my IP visited WTF at 9am today and StackOverflow at 9:05am, in fact they can see a pattern of the times I visit various sites. They can use this information.
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To point out the obvious, most people don't put a QR code that leads to their email address in their avatar image.
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They can use this information.
Yeah, and? It's already not the default. Maybe you could scold people who choose it, but they probably already know this stuff and are cool with it.
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Gravatar can't pin that address to you, though, because you aren't the only person who uses Gravatar on this site. Plus, they don't care.
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Google probably knows my blood type by now. People who are concerned about their traffic patterns being tracked use Tor anyway.
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The issue was that you used to get a gravatar for having an account on any discourse (at least I think it was any) as it is the default avatar, which means if you did care about the address showing you got shafted. They then pulled back from that to the letter in a colored box default, but gravatar was still available if you want to use it. Thing is the pulling back from gravatar has led to some weirdness in if you have it turned on for your avatar.
EDIT: and there were a bunch of posts as I typed that and dealt with an installer.
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The way I see it, the Discourse team has three options here:
- Implement Gravatar the way it should be implemented, and get the Gravatar auto-updating.
- Completely remove Gravatar from Discourse. Make it a non-option.
- Continue as you are, with a feature that looks like YAB.
If you are so worried about protecting privacy, then #2 is the way to go. If you're worried about removing a feature that many people are already using, then #1 is the way to go. #3 is not a desirable option.
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What's this in the header of the site?
<script> (function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){i['GoogleAnalyticsObject']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){ (i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o), m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m) })(window,document,'script','//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js','ga'); ga('create', 'UA-9122028-2', 'auto'); ga('send', 'pageview'); </script>Oh, it's nothing. Just obfuscated code that tells Google everything that everyone does on this site. And it's a core feature of Discourse.
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Ah! So people who haven't opted-in were having info leaked! That does sound worth worrying about at least. I'm going off the assumption that people who have opted-in to Gravitar already have done their own risk analysis.
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Images expire every 5 minutes so we end clients are constantly pinging Gravatar.
Ok? Goddamned, I hope you never learn about an Atlas UAT.
So Gravatar know that my IP visited WTF at 9am today and StackOverflow at 9:05am, in fact they can see a pattern of the times I visit various sites.
So why are you using it if you hate it so much?
Why was it the only option for so long if you hate it so much? What changed since then?
Help me understand your reasoning here.
They can use this information.
For what?
Look. For people who want to use Gravatar, which is (I remind you) both opt-in and optional at the moment, they're ok with all of this shit. They want to use Gravatar. That's none of your business as a software developer.
For people who don't want to use Gravatar, well, you've already implemented a solution for that. So yay, all your complaints are addressed.
EDIT: Yeah, what @abarker said. You either implement the feature, or don't. You don't half-ass half-implement the feature, and then tell people you have it.
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They can use this information.
Oh no, Gravatar can work out I play Race 07 sometimes! And that one day I wrote about Portal! How could I subject myself to such a blatant and massive breach of my own privacy?Gravatar doesn't give a flying fucking shitting pissing cunting fuck where I spend my time. They serve images. That. Is. All. They. Do.
And if you're so concerned about security, maybe you want to double-check that Google Analytics shit included in every single fucking Discourse page.
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Google Analytics shit
Opt-in by admins
For people who don't want to use Gravatar, well, you've already implemented a solution for that.
You are missing a point. It's not "I don't care about privacy so I can use gravatar" it is more accurately phrased "I don't care about privacy, so everyone on the forum needs to send beacons to gravatar when they visit the site and look at my avatar"
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You are missing a point.
Ok, but you still haven't answered: what changed? Gravatar used to be the only option. Now you don't support it at all (while pretending to.) What changed? Why was it ok then, and not now?
It's not "I don't care about privacy so I can use gravatar" it is more accurately phrased "I don't care about privacy, so everyone on the forum needs to send beacons to gravatar when they visit the site and look at my avatar"
I don't understand why that's a problem. If you have Gravatar turned off, your beacon (meaning, the hash that ties with your email address) never gets sent, right? Just a bunch of other people. So how could Gravatar possibly track you?
And even if they could, what exactly is it you think they're going to do with the data?
Look, I think it's safe to say I speak for everyone when I say:
All we're asking is for you guys to stop half-assing stuff!
If you don't want Discourse to support Gravatar, that's fine. Remove the feature. I doubt anybody on this forum will really cry so much about it*. But don't half-ass it. Either do Gravatar, or don't. Don't pretend.
* Although you, as developers, should be a lot more careful about installing new features if you're just going to turn around a month later and change your mind. Because teasing your users is awful.
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Then there is the thing with other people hitting gravatar's junk cause you are using it for your avatar, as @sam points out here:
it is more accurately phrased "I don't care about privacy, so everyone on the forum needs to send beacons to gravatar when they visit the site and look at my avatar"
Which is why they do the rehosting of the image.
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Opt-in by admins
An option picked for this site. Because having every user tracked by a huge and powerful multinational mega-corporation who's entire business is founded on harvesting user data is so much safer...
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Ben Lubar
