Making the best of MS Office files
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random ass-pull configuring printers
Ironically, this is actually better in Linux at least with HP printers that force you to install a truckload of useless shit alongside with their drivers in Windows, but work with the OS's built-in thing in Linux
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onically, this is actually better in Linux at least with HP printers that force you to install a truckload of useless shit alongside with their drivers in Windows, but work with the OS's built-in thing in Linux
Unless you have the wrong HP printer, in which case you have to install some extra random crap on Linux that never fucking works properly. (see: http://foo2hp.rkkda.com)Personally I think the only OS that has printer setup even close to sane is OSX - at least there it's a case of "click Add Printer in the print dialog, select your networked printer from the list, wait for OSX to automatically install drivers, print your document."
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Of course, because as you said, no-one wants editable documents and everyone has access to easily generate PDFs from Office.
Since at least Office 2010, Word has had "Save As/Export To PDF" built-in.
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It was going to be in 2007, until Adobe threw a hissy-fit. Despite Adobe asserting only weeks before that PDF was an "open standard" anybody could implement and include in their product-- fucking hypocrites.
Microsoft quietly snuck it into 2010, and it's been there ever since.
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Personally I think the only OS that has printer setup even close to sane is OSX - at least there it's a case of "click Add Printer in the print dialog, select your networked printer from the list, wait for OSX to automatically install drivers, print your document."
Ironically, OSX uses CUPS. Same system as Linux. Has done for years. They've just got better drivers (and Apple have enough muscle to get shit-kickers like HP to play nice).
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They've just got better drivers (and Apple have enough muscle to get shit-kickers like HP to play nice).
That and an admin interface that isn't a massive pile of shite.
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at least with HP printers that force you to install a truckload of useless shit alongside with their drivers in Windows, but work with the OS's built-in thing in Linux
Mine works fine in Windows without the HP crap - in fact, I've never actually added it - Windows detected it wirelessly and installed its own driver automatically.
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Resisting urge to flag as offensive.
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If someone told me that they would refuse to work with me because I've sent them a docx/xlsx file, that sounds like a great warning sign that it's a job I need to get out of fast!
It's the same thing for me, only for people who can't accept a PDF instead of a .doc/.docx file. (I can at least extract the gist of pretty much any random Word/... doc sent my way; its just that some people are so bloody clueless that opening a PDF is beyond their knowledge somehow. Either that, or some sort of brain worms live in some places that causes them not to put a PDF reader in their deployment image.)
Filed under: Glorified typewriters are a barrier to good-looking, readable documents
P.S. I am a LaTeX user for my own work.
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How do people still not realize this?
http://lifehacksdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Life-Hacks_White-text-shows-up-on-any-color.png
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Only when it's size 72 font.
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Nah, it even works with this font at 5px height.
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Hmmm, uploads are broken.
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Pretty sure I made that font on my Commodore-64.
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Were you expecting some kind of medal?
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I've actually read this guy's post after someone sent me a link to this site. I don't think he's half the idiot you make him out to be. Sure, he doesn't like Microsoft, but it's a very hard company to like when you care about standardization and interoperability.
It was an interesting read with all the links to articles about OOXML studies and how for instance public administrations struggle with longterm data storage and collaboration. The whole OOXML thing was a fiasco with a very doubtable ISO voting process. Acting as if Microsoft has nothing to gain by pushing a document format that's not really open and making them out to be some great company that would not even think about abusing their monopoly hardly makes you any less biased than the blogger you insult.
If Microsoft really cared about interoperability so much, then why didn't they help improve ODF back in 2007 so it would support the billions of features that their Office apparently offers while Libre/OpenOffice doesn't - and according to you never will? Why did they invent OOXML when ODF was already there, ready to be extended to anyone's needs - including Microsoft's? Now we have two standards, neither of which are supported universally. How does that benefit anyone?
Do you really believe it's not a problem at all for users to be forced to buy Windows+Office just to collaborate on a document or spreadsheet? Why shouldn't they be allowed to choose for themselves? Because you think running Windows+Office is better, so should they? A better example would be to force-feed a pig to a vegetarian because you think vegetarianism is stupid because most people aren't vegetarians.
Avoiding this need for a monoculture forcing users to buy product X and only product X is what standards are for, and I think that's all this guy was really trying to say. I didn't read anything like 'everyone should use Linux and Windows users are stupid'. He's just annoyed because other people expect him to buy Windows+Office because they refuse to save their documents as odt / pdf. If I were in his shoes I'd probably feel the same.
It's like the other guy said: how would you feel if somebody didn't just send a picture as jpeg - a format that everyone can open regardless of their platform - but expect you to buy some obscure proprietary Abobe program costing you 500 bucks? And add to that that it also doesn't run on the OS you use, that the only OS it does run on is an OS you don't want to use / don't trust, and that you have to accept EULAs you don't agree with to use it.
Even though you think not accepting them is stupid, why should everyone else feel the same?Some people feel that Microsoft (or any proprietary software vendor) stagnates innovation and freedom by locking down user rights and that not having access to the source code of your computers increases the risk of back doors. It's not like either of those arguments make no sense at all. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I don't think that people who have these plausible concerns should be locked up in an institution either.
However you feel about licenses and source code, why should a Linux user be forced to use Windows against their will because someone else thinks that's easier for them? Open standards exist exactly to avoid that so co-existence will be possible like you said. If Microsoft had full ODF support and implemented/documented OOXML in a non-obscure way, nobody would write blogs like this. Merely because they would have no reason to.
There's a difference between hating Microsoft and calling them out for their anti-competitive tactics you know.
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A better example would be to force-feed a pig to a vegeterian because you think vegetarianism is stupid because most people aren't vegetarians.
I can think of absolutely nothing wrong with this scenario. When do we start?
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I don't want to force feed the pig to the vegetarian. I've got a better plan for who gets to eat the pig…
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Oh, come on. The pig is the most efficient animal invented - I'm sure there are perfectly edible bits left over once we've filled ourselves up with the ham and bacon.
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In all fairness, he also explained how to do the same thing with a graphical package manager, which does not look complicated even for beginners.
It's just usually that in UNIX, using the shell is much faster, and most Linux and BSD users aren't opposed to it.The reason the command is that long is because the font packages have such long names. The only "cli part" is 'sudo apt-get'.
I don't see why somebody is a zealot for preferring a command line over a GUI. In most cases that's just common sense.
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A common complaint from LibreOffice users sending an ODF file to Microsoft Office users seems to be the many ways Microsoft Office breaks compatibility, even though they claim to "fully support" ODF 1.2 in Office 2013.
I would think that Linux users would benefit a lot from being able to send a document to a Windows user without it breaking, which is indeed why many expect Microsoft to support ODF.
Now ODF senders usually get coerced into buying Windows+Office because of the same arguments: "We refuse to work with you if you don't use MS Office". Or is it okay when it happens the other way around?Nobody ever said anything about Microsoft switching to ODF. Although a platform independent OOXML > ODF converter made by the only company that really knows how OOXML works would most certainly be nice as well.
Let ODF be the "lowest-common-denominator" instead of RTF. A lot of things would benefit from that aside from Linux users running LibreOffice. Think about Google Docs and all kinds of mobile office apps as well.I really don't understand why all of this has to be so hard. What's so bad about being able to choose the operating system and office suite you prefer? In the end, most users would likely keep running Windows and MS Office anyway, but that's no reason to lock out those who don't.
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are you really going to let the pork rest in brine for the time it takes to become gammon so you can then cook it into ham?
COOK THE PORK, CRACKLE THE SKIN, COMBINE INTO A SANDWICH THAT SEAN BEAN WOULD BE PROUD OF!
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Or is it okay when it happens the other way around?
things that nobody said.
Both directions are equally stupid. If either side of a business arrangement are looking for excuses not to work with each other, they probably should just go ahead and not work with each other.
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yeah, that line was just typical of a lot of the attitude you see in the worst of OSS adherants (not saying everybody who likes open source is a dick).
You see it in a lot of places, "this is trivial", followed by a load of commands that are incomprehensible to someone without the same CLI experience.
I was burned by this on one of my first experiences playing with Linux. I'd just installed Ububtu and to get a grip on how it worked I decided to see how it stacked up against Windows in my most common use for this computer - media playback. I googled for XBMC Linux and found the official wiki at http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=How-to:Install_XBMC_for_Linux. Being from the Windows world I was expecting a package to download and run, but saw no nice big download link, just a set of commands to type in, all beginning with sudo.
I knew enough about Unix/Linux to know that sudo gives root access, so I would basically have been pasting in a command where all I knew was that it could do anything. At that point I gave up and booted back into my Windows partition.
Later I discovered apt get and the Ubuntu GUI package manager, but that was enough to sour my view on people who say "this is easy, just run these commands. No I won't tell you what they do"
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I certainly get that, I've experienced the same. But in the guy's defense, it is a blog on a Free Software Foundation site and seems to be targeted towards fellow members, so his audience is probably experienced with Linux and the CLI.
And he does tell you what the commands do, although not immediately after:
This will install the Arimo, Tinos, Cousine, Carlito, and Caladea fonts: metrically compatible substitutes for Arial, Times New Roman, Courier New, Calibri, and Cambria respectively.
I agree that a lot of open source communities (or IT communities in general) have quite a few arrogant/unfriendly members. But I doubt that's any different for the worst of Microsoft or Apple users either.
I've also heard and read a lot about FOSS users being burned by companies like Microsoft (OOXML? Silverlight?) so I can also understand their view. For instance, I have a friend who couldn't get the education he wanted because he didn't want to be forced to use Windows at home. Some may find it strange that he cares, but I understand his desire to decide what happens in his home. It is his home after all.
Linux users often have to fight to keep their heads above the water, as you can see with the ongoing problems with document compatibility for instance. Of course they shouldn't be angry/arrogant/biased, but it's also understandable from their point of view.
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The pig is the most efficient animal invented - I'm sure there are perfectly edible bits left over once we've filled ourselves up with the ham and bacon.
If I can get some nice belly pork (for a slow roast so that the fat cooks out and leaves behind delicious tenderness) then I'm not too worried about the rest. Though pork liver makes good paté…
Aaargh! I have a lunchtime meeting today; the uncivilised scum!
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over the weekend we cut the skin off a couple of belly pork joints, slow cooked them for 6 hours, and then crackled the skin. it was glorious.
this is how pork should be prepared, the ham is a suboptimal second choice. don't get me wrong, it is delightfully tasty, but a good pulled pork is far better.
Filed Under: Salty Handjobs
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this is how pork should be prepared, the ham is a suboptimal second choice. don't get me wrong, it is delightfully tasty, but a good pulled pork is far better.
Ham is great because it lasts forever. So you can snack on it over a period of weeks.
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It was an interesting read with all the links to articles about OOXML studies and how for instance public administrations struggle with longterm data storage and collaboration. The whole OOXML thing was a fiasco with a very doubtable ISO voting process. Acting as if Microsoft has nothing to gain by pushing a document format that's not really open and making them out to be some great company that would not even think about abusing their monopoly hardly makes you any less biased than the blogger you insult.
Avoiding this need for a monoculture forcing users to buy product X and only product X is what standards are for, and I think that's all this guy was really trying to say.
A common complaint from LibreOffice users sending an ODF file to Microsoft Office users seems to be the many ways Microsoft Office breaks compatibility, even though they claim to "fully support" ODF 1.2 in Office 2013.
Nobody ever said anything about Microsoft switching to ODF. Although a platform independent OOXML > ODF converter made by the only company that really knows how OOXML works would most certainly be nice as well.Let ODF be the "lowest-common-denominator" instead of RTF. A lot of things would benefit from that aside from Linux users running LibreOffice. Think about Google Docs and all kinds of mobile office apps as well.
QFT. I'm quite sure Google Docs, Keynote/... (aka Apple's vision of what they think a productivity suite should be), and a fair few other things would appreciate not having to hork around with the fast-moving target that is the Office file format suite, whether it be the old-school binary formats or OOXML.
Microsoft shoving OOXML through ISO is yet another example of the old, monopolistic Microsoft at work; worse yet, it shows serious cracks in the ISO standardization process itself. I hope you're concerned about this, because if you aren't...
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Ham is great because it lasts forever. So you can snack on it over a period of weeks.
It's a glorious world that has both ham and pork belly.
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I've actually read this guy's post after someone sent me a link to this site. I don't think he's half the idiot you make him out to be.
"this guy" -- you mean, you?
Yeah, if "this guy" came here to defend his essay, he might actually be MORE of an idiot than I thought.
It was an interesting read with all the links to articles about OOXML studies and how for instance public administrations struggle with longterm data storage and collaboration.
And very little citations to back-up the dubious points "this guy" brought up several times as fact.
Actually, looking again, I'm pretty sure "this guy" edited that article to add a whole bunch of citations in the last day or two... I know those links in the first paragraph weren't there before. HMM! "This guy" is sure a slippery one!
If Microsoft really cared about interoperability so much,
Who claimed that? They don't. They have no incentive to.
then why didn't they help improve ODF back in 2007 so it would support the billions of features that their Office apparently offers while Libre/OpenOffice doesn't - and according to you never will?
There's about a billion reasons, so maybe you can forgive me if I only list a few:
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There's no incentive, financial or otherwise, to (even the Euro-courts didn't try to force this on them)
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The gap in features is a competitive advantage between Word and products that use ODF as a native format
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Word features added to ODF would be stripped next time a product that didn't implement those features saved the ODF file, making the format appear broken
etc etc. I'm sure "this guy" has enough neurons to bang together to come up with maybe a few more reasons.
Do you really believe it's not a problem at all for users to be forced to buy Windows+Office just to collaborate on a document or spreadsheet?
Yes? Or maybe no. ... the one that means I don't think it's a problem.
Who is forcing users to buy Windows and Office, BTW? Where is this forcing happening? What type of weapons are being used? I think you'll find if this is a true claim, you can go to your local law enforcement to assist.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to choose for themselves?
People can do what the fuck they want. Including Microsoft. I believe it's wrong to go to a government agency (the court) and force a company to give up a competitive advantage. Then again, the Euro-courts see fining American corporations as a money-making effort at this point-- even they didn't really give a shit about the file formats, they just wanted to levy huge fines.
It's like the other guy said: how would you feel if somebody didn't just send a picture as jpeg - a format that everyone can open regardless of their platform - but expect you to buy some obscure proprietary Abobe program costing you 500 bucks?
Well first of all, Office doesn't cost close to $500. Maybe "this guy" should to go the Microsoft Online Store and maybe educate himself and stop spreading FUD.
Secondly, when that situation actually comes up, I'll let you know. I don't like dealing in hypotheticals.
Some people feel that Microsoft (or any proprietary software vendor) stagnates innovation and freedom by locking down user rights and that not having access to the source code of your computers increases the risk of back doors.
OH NOES MY USER RIGHTS!!!!!
Oh wait, it was Apple who loaded a U2 album on all of their users' phones, not Microsoft. Oh and it's Oracle that bundles Ask Toolbar, not Microsoft. Oh, and it was Amazon removing legit books from Kindles, not Microsoft.
BUT MICROSOFT IS THE REAL PROBLEM! ...some... how!!!!!
I'm not saying I agree with them, but I don't think that people who have these plausible concerns should be locked up in an institution either.
If "this guy" literally believes that Office Online saves a copy of every PDF for the NSA, they are paranoid and should be on medication. I'm not budging on that one.
However you feel about licenses and source code, why should a Linux user be forced to use Windows against their will because someone else thinks that's easier for them?
Since when did anybody who picked Linux as their default operating system want anything to be easy! Hah! That's legit funny.
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I don't see why somebody is a zealot for preferring a command line over a GUI. In most cases that's just common sense.
Wow, you're really convincing me "this guy" isn't an idiot here!
Also I'm 99.9% sure those screenshots and instructions did not exist when I first posted this, it's another stealth edit by "this guy". If I had known "this guy" would have stealth-edited his blog post in response to this topic, I'd have saved it first. Alas.
For instance, I have a friend who couldn't get the education he wanted because he didn't want to be forced to use Windows at home.
If he was attending a school without a computer lab, it's not like his education would have been any good anyway.
I'm guessing he had access to a computer lab, he was just too lazy to walk his butt over to the library and used the "DRACONIAN EULA!!!!!" as an excuse to shove another fruit roll-up into his toothless maw.
I hope you're concerned about this, because if you aren't...
What? WHAT? I need to know because I don't give a flying fuck!!!
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"this guy" -- you mean, you?
Yeah, if "this guy" came here to defend his essay, he might actually be MORE of an idiot than I thought.Just because I don't completely disagree with a blog I must be the one who wrote it?
I'm not even defending his post because there's a lot of parts that I don't agree with either. But I don't feel like you're any better yourself. Why do you think it's necessary to turn everything into a personal attack?Actually, looking again, I'm pretty sure "this guy" edited that article to add a whole bunch of citations in the last day or two... I know those links in the first paragraph weren't there before.
That could be true, I don't know. I received the link from a colleague this morning and your reply seemed much too harsh/personal. I don't understand why you have to be so mean and insulting towards everyone.
Who is forcing users to buy Windows and Office, BTW? Where is this forcing happening?
In my country, schools are a nightmare when it comes to interoperability, to give an example. A lot of the issues we're having would go away if we had a universal document format. The law says that it's not allowed for schools to make computer-related demands towards parents and pupils, yet things like OOXML and Silverlight make them all do so. It's kept the ministry going for years now and it seems like an unsolvable problem without "the industry" moving to open standards at some point.
I believe it's wrong to go to a government agency (the court) and force a company to give up a competitive advantage.
And I believe it's wrong to let monopolies force their way into the public sectors of foreign countries, which is where most of the complaints about OOXML originate. I'm sure you disagree, but why would you insult everyone who has a different opinion?
If you put it like that, I can also say that the EU can do whatever they want, so Microsoft should just GTFO back to the US and stay there. But that kind of behavior leads to nowhere.
Then again, the Euro-courts see fining American corporations as a money-making effort at this point
Just like Microsoft probably makes a lot of money from European governments that aren't really left much of a choice other than buying Windows+Office because everyone else uses it. Which is why they do care about the file formats. They don't want to be locked in to one vendor.
Well first of all, Office doesn't cost close to $500.
A Linux user has to add Windows as well, and many will need a newer computer too.
OH NOES MY USER RIGHTS!!!!!
You don't agree and that's fine, but why do you have to ridicule and insult everyone who has a different opinion?
BUT MICROSOFT IS THE REAL PROBLEM! ...some... how!!!!!
Nobody said that. Not even the blog. OOXML, on the other hand, really is a problem for a lot of people.
If "this guy" literally believes that Office Online saves a copy of every PDF for the NSA, they are paranoid and should be on medication. I'm not budging on that one.
It doesn't seem impossible to me, to be honest. It may be a bit "out there", but I wouldn't deem it unthinkable either. Why are you so certain that Microsoft has nothing to do with PRISM?
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Just because I don't completely disagree with a blog I must be the one who wrote it?
People who create a new account, then come here and post shit like that? From my experience 90% of the time it's the guy who wrote the article.
Let me ask you this: a friend showed you that blog post, how did you find this forum? (I'm guessing Google Analytics, since you'd get that as owner of the blog in question.) Why did you decide this would be the post you'd create a new account for?
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Why do you think it's necessary to turn everything into a personal attack?
You must be new here.
I'm sure you disagree, but why would you insult everyone who has a different opinion?
Yep.
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People who create a new account, then come here and post shit like that? From my experience 90% of the time it's the guy who wrote the article.
I had similar thoughts when he first started posting. Still, stranger things have brought people out of the woodwork.
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Let me ask you this: a friend showed you that blog post, how did you find this forum?
No, a friend showed me your post.
I'm guessing Google Analytics
Someone paranoid enough to think that the NSA copies all cloud documents running Google Analytics on his blog? I doubt that to be the case.
Why did you decide this would be the post you'd create a new account for?
Like I explained multiple times: you are really insulting and unfriendly. That's the reason my colleague showed me your post in the first place.
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You seem to be under the impression @blakeyrat is actually reading your posts and not just substituting his own interpretation. If you hang around here long enough I guarantee you will see more of this behaviour.
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...but saw no nice big download link, just a set of commands to type in, all beginning with sudo. I knew enough about Unix/Linux to know that sudo gives root access, so I would basically have been pasting in a command where all I knew was that it could do anything.
But you're OK running some random exe you download from online? And as if that's not bad enough, even though Windows auto-elevates (most?) programs it thinks are installers?
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That's the reason my colleague showed me your post in the first place.
@blakeyrat is actually gaining quite the reputation outside of TDWTF, huh. Who else is reminded of that one Frontpage-article that @snoofle posted where somebody was asked what he thought about himself (not knowing those people were the same person) on some forum?
Maybe blakeyrat sent that in. That would explain Snoofle not taking the job-offer!
Filed Under: Would blakeyrat hire himself?
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Someone paranoid enough to think that the NSA copies all cloud documents running Google Analytics on his blog? I doubt that to be the case.
Not so far-fetched. Google's not Microsoft after all.
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Later I discovered apt get and the Ubuntu GUI package manager, but that was enough to sour my view on people who say "this is easy, just run these commands. No I won't tell you what they do"
I can't speak for "I won't tell you" nonsense, as I've never done that nor encountered that attitude (not that it surprises me that they exist). But that sort of online help is a lot easier to give and to receive than descriptions or screen shots to do the equivalent in a GUI.
Honestly, advising someone over a text medium like a forum is one of the best places for a CLI.
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And as if that's not bad enough, even though Windows auto-elevates (most?) programs it thinks are installers?
That's a lie.
Well, you can set Windows to do that, but it's certainly not the default behavior.
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No, a friend showed me your post.
You have shitty friends.
Someone paranoid enough to think that the NSA copies all cloud documents running Google Analytics on his blog? I doubt that to be the case.
Point.
Like I explained multiple times: you are really insulting and unfriendly.
That is what this forum is FOR!!!!!
At least it used to be, before it died and was replaced by this current monstrosity.
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If you put it like that, I can also say that the EU can do whatever they want, so Microsoft should just GTFO back to the US and stay there. But that kind of behavior leads to nowhere.
If Microsoft did that, after a week the EU would be BEGGING them to come back.
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@EvanED said:
After investigating, neither of us is completely correct. First, let me clarify: I don't mean that Windows automatically grants elevated privileges, just that it asks for them.And as if that's not bad enough, even though Windows auto-elevates (most?) programs it thinks are installers?
That's a lie.
Well, you can set Windows to do that, but it's certainly not the default behavior.
The actual statement that is correct is "Windows auto-elevates 32-bit, non-manifested programs that it thinks are installers (because the name contains 'install', 'update', or 'setup')."
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First, let me clarify: I don't mean that Windows automatically grants elevated privileges, just that it asks for them.
Oh, well, then it's not a lie. But you might want to hit a dictionary before posting again.
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If "this guy" literally believes that Office Online saves a copy of every PDF for the NSA, they are paranoid and should be on medication. I'm not budging on that one.
You know what, though? I wouldn't actually be surprised if it happens, with the Snowden revelations and so on over the last year or two. Nonetheless, the vast majority of these files are going to be machine-scanned once and ignored forever, so from a purely practical standpoint it's hard to worry about, except inasmuch as it's causing upward pressure on the price of hard drives.
