Minecraft- ｕｎrelated shenanigans
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Aaargh, brianfart(sic). I read "derive" and my mind said "decompile".
Oops. *sends @Tufty coffee, or whatever he needs to get his brain functioning again*Mind you, smalltalk is a (usually) bytecode based language that allows derivation and extension of binary classes, and that's been around since the '70s.
Indeed it has; its just that the capability became part of mainstream programming vocabulary oh, 30-odd years after it was first invented. The same is true for much of the functional programming world.
Also, kudos to @BC_Programmer for providing the example.
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...unless said class is marked as
final.And all assuming that you're not using a classloader that doesn't strip the
finalattribute. It's just a bit in a mask. What can be set may be unset. (This option is definitely one for the evil ideas thread; if it doesn't scare you, you're in a state of blissful ignorance.)You could strengthen things by using signed code, which would really get up the nose of RMS. However, it would also irritate everyone else too, as signed code is an arse to work with, so still don't do it.
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This get's even more strange when we consider that, in C/C++, including header files doesn't actually constitute a derived work, according to Stallman himself, even. This is how it is possible for companies to create proprietary software while using say glibc
GLibC is LGPL, which has no linking restrictions in it. Which makes that a bad example as there's nothing in the license preventing you from writing programs against it.
As for the .h files, as Oracle was reminded in Oracle v. Google, APIs can't be copyrighted.
In fact, you'll find most open source libraries have language to that effect in their licenses... GNU readline is the only exception I can think of off the top of my head and that has caused license changes in other projects (CLisp is apparently one of them).
Then again, readline isn't exactly a widely used library for non-console applications. Plus, terminfo and ncurses can apparently be used to do the same thing and those use the MIT license (which basically lets you do anything with the code).
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As for the .h files, as Oracle was reminded in Oracle v. Google, APIs can't be copyrighted.
In fact, you'll find most open source libraries have language to that effect in their licenses... GNU readline is the only exception I can think of off the top of my head and that has caused license changes in other projects (CLisp is apparently one of them).
Then again, readline isn't exactly a widely used library for non-console applications. Plus, terminfo and ncurses can apparently be used to do the same thing and those use the MIT license (which basically lets you do anything with the code).
Readline has a BSD-licensed equivalent in libedit anyway. Also, Oracle v. Google is in limbo atm, thanks a lot, CAFC!
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Also, Oracle v. Google is in limbo atm, thanks a lot, CAFC!
Yes, but no one in their right mind expects that to stand. I'm surprised the Supreme Court hasn't done something about it by now considering they've already overturned multiple cases from them 9-0.
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Hooray, I, along with most of the remaining staff, finally got around to quitting.
The entire situation sucks. Blergh.
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Hooray, I, along with most of the remaining staff, finally got around to quitting
I don't have much sympathy for the devs who quit. "We were giving Mojang work for free! Oh, sad us!" Do you not know know how Open Source works? Congratulations on hurting all the server admins.
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I'm glad I still run a vanilla server. I've had players begging for mods and I always point out the previous world that was lost after a Minecraft update broke half the mods which were never ever updated again.
I do feel sorry for a couple other server operators I know. Last I knew they were still on 1.6 or an early 1.7, guess they're stuck there now.
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The latest news over the weekend is all sorts of Bukkit devs quitting--as well as devs from 3rd-party mods like anticheat plugins. That guy was hilarious: "I never wanted to get compensated for what I did, but then those bastards at Mojang bought Bukkit and I gave them my work without compensation!"
So he was only willing to work for free for some people. It's like how Barack Obama[1] thought deficit spending was horrible until he became President, at which time he started shattering all records.
[1] Republicans can be hypocrites too.
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It's like how Barack Obama[1] thought deficit spending was horrible until he became President, at which time he started shattering all records.
But that's perfectly okay because Bush did it first.
Sorry, been reading too many Yahoo! News article comments. twitch
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Posts since Markdown bug: 0
I wanted twitch surrounded in asterisks in common-emote format. But I guess that's Doing It Wrong™.
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But that's perfectly okay because Bush did it first.
Snort, well, no. Approximately all of them did. The last few each took it to new heights. Obama's going for the Guinness Book of World Records, though.
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Posts since Markdown bug: 0
I wanted twitch surrounded in asterisks in common-emote format.
Oh man, the treating of stars as formatting is wacky. One before-and-after is italic, but it turns out two is bold. And if you mismatch, you get weird* stuff.
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Was supposed to be a joke/mockery. Don't take me seriously.
Obama's going for the Guinness Book of World Records, though.
This somehow reminds me of how the Guinness Book of World Records has now disallowed the fat pet category because too many people were abusing their animals to try to win.
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Oh man, the treating of stars as formatting is wacky. One before-and-after is italic, but it turns out two is bold. And if you mismatch, you get weird* stuff.
Mentioned before, of course.
And just try to bold/italicize ONE letter within a word...
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Obama's going for the Guinness Book of World Records, though.
Don't worry. The President after will beat him…
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Snort, well, no. Approximately all of them did. The last few each took it to new heights. Obama's going for the Guinness Book of World Records, though.
Damn, I thought here of all places I'd be safe from the intellectually lazy regurgitating easily disproven propaganda.
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Damn, I thought here of all places I'd be safe from the intellectually lazy regurgitating easily disproven propaganda.
That was a nice article taking different views on the data. I've never looked at the numbers specifically, but nothing in there surprised me. Obama's spending reputation has benefited immensely from hiding behind TARP. And a divided Congress closed the door after the horse left the barn.
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Damn, I thought here of all places I'd be safe from the intellectually lazy regurgitating easily disproven propaganda.
You can quote percentages if you want, and that's fine, but one of the last two Presidents had a couple trillion dollars more of deficit spending, and it wasn't George Bush.
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You can quote percentages if you want, and that's fine, but one of the last two Presidents had a couple trillion dollars more of deficit spending, and it wasn't George Bush.
That's pretty much what the percentages point out, once you get to the bottom, where they cut out bailouts.
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That's pretty much what the percentages point out, once you get to the bottom, where they cut out bailouts.
Oh, I didn't need to read the whole article, because I've seen all that information before.
Obama likes to pin TARP entirely on Bush. "Someone else was President when that was passed." He neglects--knowing liberals aren't very smart--to point out that he was a Senator and voted for it himself.
Idiots like Dookiedookie ignore the fact he said deficit spending was unpatriotic in 2006, before he got his hands on the tiller.
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Why are there politics in the minecraft thread? Shoo, shoo.
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Obama likes to pin TARP entirely on Bush. "Someone else was President when that was passed." He neglects--knowing liberals aren't very smart--to point out that he was a Senator and voted for it himself.
Whomever you want to pin it on, it's a different beast than Medicaid Part D or porkulus. And Congress usually gets left out of these discussions.
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Why are there politics in the minecraft thread? Shoo, shoo.
- I didn't start it
- @blakeyrat's whichever law
- I started the thread, so I can go OT.
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Why are there politics in the
minecraftshenanigans thread? Shoo, shoo.That question kind of answers itself.
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To go back to the original thread topic, the ongoing meltdown in the Bukkit community is hilarious. I can't remember if I mentioned this here or not and I CBA to check, but someone dropped support for a mod he wrote because while he didn't care to be compensated, he was upset that Mojang benefited from his work without him being compensated. "I don't want to be paid for my work...unless the people with money get a benefit from it!"
What kind of person writes free software or OSS and expects to get paid? Nothing is different today from the way it was before people found out Mojang owns Bukkit...except people know Mojang owns Bukkit.
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To paraphrase the (Mencken) definition of Puritanism: It's the feeling that someone, somewhere, is making money.
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Pretty much booms point. You can feel self righteous when nobody is making money directly, but as soon as the evil corporation has hold and is making money and you aren't, you go sour.
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as soon as the evil corporation has hold
Well, that's the hilarious part of all this--the only context in which the "evil corporation" is evil is that they didn't trumpet their ownership. These people all love Minecraft or they wouldn't have been trying to enhance it.
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I find this whole situation kind of crazy. Since when was there any way anyone could see mojang as an "evil corporation"? It doesn't seem that long ago that I watched Notch tinkering with world generation and re-implementing caves. I thought it was still just a small company with at most 20 (last I knew closer to 5) employees, it just so happened that Notch became incredibly wealthy thanks to making a genuinely good game.
There is LITERALLY no difference between what happened before and what's happening now. To play bukkit servers you had to have a minecraft account, which means bukkit work would cause people to buy minecraft accounts, which means bukkit was directly helping mojang ALREADY. So now that mojang is/has sent money the other way (towards bukkit, by buying it) suddenly they are profiting from it in some sinister and evil way?
It's almost as if I spent 2 years working on a really awesome and successful web app, and then people find out I upgraded from visual studio express and bought an MSDN subscription part way though, and everyone decides that I am a terrible person?
or another analogy - it's like I got a new job, then got sacked a few months later because code I had written for my previous employer was making said previous employer money?
there is no sense
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I find this whole situation kind of crazy. Since when was there any way anyone could see mojang as an "evil corporation"?
That sort of logic doesn't really matter to the sort of person who gets butthurt over this sort of thing.
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It's the sense of entitled idiots who think they live in a silo and don't understand economics or business relationships, intentional or not.
For the record I have no opinion on mojang, because I don't play minecraft, but what I've seen doesn't look like they are bad. They were letting a mod community live and thrive, when the mod community tried to lash out the owner said 'no, child. ' and took away their toys.
What did they think was going to happen when you have an unlicensed derived work filing a dmca against the owning company?
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Dunno, but brb, going to fork the Discourse repo and then file a DMCA against it.
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Mojang isn't really a bad company, just fat and lazy these days. I CBA'd to find a link, but several months ago Notch said Mojang had enough money in the bank to last the next ten years without making another penny. Coincidentally it feels like Minecraft development has virtually halted.
Notch is a horrible programmer and Minecraft improved tremendously after he let go of the reigns, but that's a different topic.
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feels like Minecraft development has virtually halted
See, I figure the product has matured enough to where they can take some time to do new features right instead of scrambling to fix all the hilariously broken things that used to be there. Slower cycle time, but when they do a major update, it's got a laundry list of new features.
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Slower cycle time, but when they do a major update, it's got a laundry list of new features.
Yup, as just happened (2nd September).
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i see they still havent completely excised herobrine from the code.
Is herobrine the minecraft version of the KSP kraken i wonder?
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Well that tells me no one plays on my server. I used to get online PMs and SMS's out the bunghole on update days.
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"Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we went over this whole "implementing an API is a derived work" thing back with Google and Oracle?"
Bukkit isn't a pure API (abstract classes and interfaces). For example, they implemented a permissions system which had no analogue in the base game; all the implementation code is in Bukkit
"after himself and the other core dev basically said they will do whatever they can to prevent Bukkit from continuing."
EvilSeph (the former Bukkit project lead you are referring to) chooses his words very. carefully. indeed. when making a public statement. When he said the project was being shut down he said it was because core developers didn't want to continue. Wolvereness is a core dev, and the lynchpin of the version update process. Given that EvilSeph was very quick to agree that Dinnerbone could continue the project, my instinct is that this started because Wolvereness got fed up and there was no one to fill the void. Wolvereness, however, didn't like the idea that he wasn't indispensible.
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I'll agree with that sentiment. EvilSeph's comments to the public were extremely carefully worded. they did not say, or imply, that EvilSeph would do anything to hamper an effort to continue the project.
However, the same could be said for EvilSeph helping an effort to continue the project.
on the other hand Wolvereness reads like a 16yo with a bruised ego lashing out in a "if i can't have it my way, then no one can have it" manner.
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after he let go of the reigns
AAAaaaaah! It's “reins” in that phrase, damnit! It comes from equestrianism, and refers to allowing the horse to do as it will instead of directing it.
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That's what I meant to type. Not sure how the G got in there.
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The autoprediction fail thread is over
there
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The bad ideas thread... yada yada yada
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That's not a bug. That's how markdown works.
Escape them *or is that too hard*?
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That's not a bug. That's how markdown works.
I've been here long enough to determine "how markdown works" is a bug.
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To be fair *mismatching asterisks not working definitely is a bug.
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I think users are smart enough to figure out not to mismatch asterisks.
