Unsexy Zoe Quinn drollness (prepare the lawyers)



  • So, is someone going to talk about Zoe Quinn drama on TDWTF or what?
    Or has she already boned @PJH and this will get deleted? :-)

    For those who are out of the loop, here's some summary:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M&feature=share
    (see notes for this video)

    EDIT

    Best summary, posted by @delfinom below:
    https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Zoe_Quinn (NSFW warning)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @cartman82 said:

    For those who are out of the loop

    That'd be me then..

    Who the fuck is she? Apart from (judging from the summary in yellow) another self-entitled feminazi that is...

    ­http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoe_Quinn

    Zoe Quinn created Depression QuestSee footnote 1, a game which details what it feels like to live with depression

    I'll be sticking that on my xmas wish-list then...

    Quinn is also interested in body modification, and has implanted a chip in the back of her hand that can be programmed to perform various functions. Her first use of the chip was to load it with a download code for the game Deus Ex. Quinn also has a magnetic implant in her left ring finger.

    Going through security must be a huge amount of fun. "Can you power up your programmable device please?" "What do you mean it doesn't have it's own power? You either show it powering up or you'll have to leave it here." :reaches for scalpel/machete:


    Honestly, until now, I'd heard of neither Miss Quinn, her one-hit-wonder "Depression Quest", nor the shit-storm she has apparently created out of thin air.

    And my amount of caring about any of those things hasn't changed very much.



    Footnote 1 - "The game was released shortly after the suicide of American actor Robin Williams. Because of this Quinn considered not releasing it, but eventually decided to release it for free."

    Oh, loook. A bandwagon! I must jump onto it...

    Anything for free advertising FFS.



    • Her obscure game had failed Steam greenlight program, so she sent her SJW dogs after some pathetic virgin introverts forum, claiming they were the ones attacking her (no proof, of course). Now she was seen as victim by a bunch of stupid wannabe dogooders, so her second steam attempt was a success (she did less well in reviews by unaffiliated gamers, however).
    • Also, the Robin Williams thing PJH mentions. Almost forgotten in all this mess.
    • See yellow box. She used her twitter fans to ruin this female game initiative. She just happend to have a competing project gearing up.
    • She cheated on her boyfriend with a bunch of guys, some of whom are gaming journalists who wrote positive things about her and her game. (seriously, read the boyfriend's tell-all post with proofs; a great study of narcissistic personality disorder)
    • One of her SWJ creeds is "total honesty, cheating = rape, cheating and not telling = double rape". Turns out one of the guys she slept with was married. So now the cheated boyfriend tries to convince her to tell the guy's wife. She does 180 and refuses. "Oh noes, I'm such a female role model of gaming community, everything will fall apart if the wife goes public"
    • Somebody "hacks" her tumblr. She screams 4chan is stalking her and "don't you believe me!? I'm the victim here!". Can't find it now, but people on 4chan post proof she did it herself to garner even more attention.

    All nice drama in on itself.

    But what's really interesting to me is the amount of censorship behind all this. You can find a forum post here or there, but go to the most popular reddit threads, and there are thousands of deleted posts by admins who are in contact with her. YouTube videos talking about it receive copyright claims and takedown requests. One site posts a story and the host shuts them down until they remove it. Gaming press, even directly involved sites (RPS, Kotaku)? Not a peep. Even 4chan had a bunch of stuff deleted.

    WTF!? Did she sleep with Obama or something? It seems SJWs have their claws deeper into the internet media than I was aware of.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Hmm. Wonder if Google has picked up on the fact we're using DC yet or is still grepping the CS forums every 5 mins instead of this one...

    Nope. I don't think we'll get anyone with Google Alerts regarding this coming here any time soon.

    At the time of posting:

    (For comparison, Google is scraping meta.d fairly quickly - I remember searching for something on a 5 minute-old post over there in the hope of finding something - the post I was looking at was #1 for the search...)



  • @PJH said:

    I remember searching for something on a 5 minute-old post over there in the hope of finding something - the post I was looking at was #1 for the search...)

    when google works better than your software's search feature for finding information in your forum.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @algorythmics said:

    when google works better than your software's search feature for finding information in your forum.

    I found that to be the case with CS as well, which is why I subscribed to it via email and used gmail search for forum posts....



  • A word from her defenders:

    ([the infamous author of Fez](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Fish))

    Sorry to break the meta, but I love this shit.



  • @cartman82 said:

    so she sent her SJW dogs

    This explains everything.

    @cartman82 said:

    It seems SJWs have their claws deeper into the internet media than I was aware of.

    Modern day extortionists.



  • @cartman82 said:

    SJW dogs

    I didn't know they had dogs for finding this stuff.



  • @PJH said:

    Hmm. Wonder if Google has picked up on the fact we're using DC yet or is still grepping the CS forums every 5 mins instead of this one...

    Nope. I don't think we'll get anyone with Google Alerts regarding this coming here any time soon.

    At the time of posting:

    <img src="/uploads/default/5918/6af701cc00847b0e.png" width="418" height="500">

    (For comparison, Google is scraping meta.d fairly quickly - I remember searching for something on a 5 minute-old post over there in the hope of finding something - the post I was looking at was #1 for the search...)

    I am pretty sure there is some penalty for having a purely Javascript based software which requires Javascript to load the main topic list. Fuck, you are basically 100% reliant on sitemaps.



  • @delfinom said:

    I am pretty sure there is some penalty for having a purely Javascript based software which requires Javascript to load the main topic list.

    They have a "normal" html version that's paginated and everything. But it's read only.



  • @cartman82 said:

    WTF!? Did she sleep with Obama or something? It seems SJWs have their claws deeper into the internet media than I was aware of.

    I'm convinced shes a succubus and not in a good way. Get the holy water!

    Best summary:
    https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Zoe_Quinn (NSFW warning)



  • Heh...she's a modern day Jesse Jackson.



  • There you go, just one link to rule them all.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    And in the darkness, bind them?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @delfinom said:

    Best summary:https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Zoe_Quinn (NSFW warning)

    Finally got to read that and, knowing to take, æ's articles with a bucket of salt, found it....

    Interesting.

    I'll admit I LOL'd at the phrase 'fuck puppets.'

    But I'll reiterate what I said earlier - I'm still largely none the wiser to her antics or of those in her social circle beyond this topic or the æ article.

    And TBH (beyond purient interest) have no great inclination to change that state of affairs.



  • @algorythmics said:

    when google works better than your software's search feature for finding information in your forum.

    It's the same thing with Reddit.

    For someone who hates Reddit, Atwood sure seems to like copying the worst things about it.



  • @PJH said:

    I'll be sticking that on my xmas wish-list then...

    Really, this piece of shit?

    Not commenting on the drama, because I don't give a shit, but this game looks fucking horrendous.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Not commenting on the drama, because I don't give a shit, but this game looks fucking horrendous like a vehicle for extortion.

    FTFY


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    It look horrendous and that fucked up animated background is an insult to good taste, but I have to say it did actually do the job that it was intended to do.

    Having had depression long-term, anyone who's never understood what it's like to live with should give DQ a try because maybe then they'll understand.



  • "Game"
    It's more like a chose your adventure book, with a crappy 90-ies background.



  • @Arantor said:

    Having had depression long-term, anyone who's never understood what it's like to live with should give DQ a try because maybe then they'll understand.

    Even having been in a very similar situation to the narrative myself, I still think the main character is pretty fucking obnoxious. And you don't really have much choice in that matter.

    Apparently "poisoning other people with your problems nobody gives a fuck about" is not considered something that would make you hate yourself, it's a preferred choice. Very much not the case.

    And it's a very flanderized depiction anyway - the basic premise of the game is "you can't have happy thoughts". As in - literally, they're crossed out and marked red. And you can't force yourself to do things you don't want, because DEPRESSION.

    And that's bullshit right there. Most people with depression try their very hardest not to show it off - ever heard the famous "but he seemed so happy, we didn't know" line? Yep.



  • Hyperbole and a Half's blog postings are about 50,000 times more useful in understanding depression than any video game.

    Google even calls them out if you search for the blog. That's nice of them.

    EDIT: also the weird film Mr. Nobody had a great sequence on what it's like to be married to a person suffering from depression.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Hyperbole and a Half's blog postings are about 50,000 times more useful in understanding depression than any video game.

    Ah yes. I remember reading these. +1 recommendation.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Well, yes, it is terrible. However... the whole 'poisoning other people' is how you feel in that situation. You can end up shutting yourself away because you feel like you would poison the people around you if you spoke up.

    But the point of the "game" isn't for people with depression to find sympathy. It's to try and reach the people who have no conception of what it's like, which means it pretty much has to exaggerate and use flawed descriptions to get the point across to people who have never been in that position.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Hyperbole and a Half's blog postings are about 50,000 times more useful in understanding depression than any video game.

    Life before eyes, and all that.

    One good point is that people with depression aren't sad. They aren't physically uncapable of doing fun things. They aren't really having that much of a whiny attitude towards their life.

    Most of the time, they're bored. Absolutely and terminally bored. You get a little spark of innovation now and then, like you want to write some cool piece of software, or go through a new game, or read a book - and then you start doing it, and you can hardly go through that, because it's giving you absolutely no fun at all.

    Also, this:

    Soon afterward, I discovered that there's no tactful or comfortable way to inform other people that you might be suicidal. And there's definitely no way to ask for help casually.

    is the Absolute Truth (tm).



  • @Arantor said:

    But the point of the "game" isn't for people with depression to find sympathy. It's to try and reach the people who have no conception of what it's like, which means it pretty much has to exaggerate and use flawed descriptions to get the point across to people who have never been in that position.

    But exaggerating and using flawed descriptions undermines its fucking point! A random person clicks through that game, sees the poor sad depressed person depicted, and what do they feel? Compassion, and the need to reach out to them, and tap them on the back, and say "everything's gonna be all right", and "you need a therapist", and all that.

    Then they meet a person actually struggling with depression, who has heard this bullshit a million times before. And if they're close, it makes it even worse, because now they think they're making others feel miserable for them.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I hadn't thought of it like that. In which case, yes, it utterly undermines its point.



  • People still don't recognize it as a physical illness. Which, Morbs' opinion aside, it is.



  • This shit's really depressing to read about.



  • æ's article has been updated more! Man, it's the best for drama.

    @cartman82 your link is broken to the article, 3 at the end.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    People still don't recognize it as a physical illness. Which, Morbs' opinion aside, it is.

    It's a physical illness? Really? What tests can they do to confirm? What medication works any better than a placebo at controlling it?

    I'm not saying it's not serious or doesn't suck, but what proof do you have that it's a physical illness?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    It certainly have physiological symptoms and could be caused by chemical deficiencies in the brain but I don't think I'd classify it as a physical illness per se.



  • @PJH said:

    >Zoe Quinn created Depression QuestSee footnote 1, a game which details what it feels like to live with depression

    I have enough first-hand experience. I don't need a game, TYVM.



  • @Arantor said:

    It certainly have physiological symptoms and could be caused by chemical deficiencies in the brain but I don't think I'd classify it as a physical illness per se.

    Really? What actual, physiological symptoms that aren't the result of behaviors undertaken by the depressed perosn?

    Don't get me started on "chemical imbalances". Yeah, some mental illnesses are caused by chemical problems. The vast majority of people with depression have no chemical basis for their depression.



  • The vast majority of people with depression have no chemical basis for their depression.

    Evidence please.

    Also, get back to work. You're drowning everybody else out.



  • @delfinom said:

    æ's article has been updated more! Man, it's the best for drama.

    @cartman82 your link is broken to the article, 3 at the end.

    Fixed.

    My prediction about what happens next:

    She takes a few pills and calls 911. Ambulance takes her to the hospital to pump her stomach. From the bed, she tweets "See what misogynists made me do!"


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Isn't that like the SJW endgame?



  • Either I have major deja-vu or you stole that joke from someone else.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Really? What actual, physiological symptoms that aren't the result of behaviors undertaken by the depressed perosn?

    Don't get me started on "chemical imbalances". Yeah, some mental illnesses are caused by chemical problems. The vast majority of people with depression have no chemical basis for their depression.

    It's pretty well established everything in the brain is physical. It's not like depression is some amorphous cloud floating around you. It's your neurons being misconnected or not having the right mix of chemicals to work properly or something.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Either I have major deja-vu or you stole that joke from someone else.

    Not a joke. Just an expert opinion formed after the whole day of being fascinated by this shit.



  • Yeah. For decades, people knew that stomach ulcers were a physical sickness with physical effects, despite the fact that they didn't know the cause.

    Depression is like stomach ulcers. Except more tricky because, almost certainly, the cause is more complicated than some bacteria.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    It's a physical illness? Really? What tests can they do to confirm? What medication works any better than a placebo at controlling it?

    I'm not saying it's not serious or doesn't suck, but what proof do you have that it's a physical illness?

    I find the term "physical illness" stupid. Well, I did until I contracted dark energy poisoning.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    http://www.akimbocomics.com/?p=573

    Also, that comic pisses me off. I'm not saying people should belittle depression, but depressives are desperate to see their condition as a physical illness. It's a comforting delusion, but I don't think it's helpful in the slightest.

    "You don't know what depression is like" is irritating. I'm sure most people don't know what it's like, but neither do the depressives, really. Depression distorts your judgment and emotions. Quite frankly, I'm not going to take a depressed person's assessment of their situation as accurate.

    Are they in pain? Absolutely. You'd have to be a fool to dispute it. You'd also have to be a fool to dispute that it's difficult for depressives to deal with their situation, to just "get better" or "cheer up".

    In some ways, a physical illness would be preferable. Something tangible that your mind would have to cope with. Depression is a slippery bitch that's nearly impossible to pin down.

    When a depressed person says "Nothing I've accomplished is worth anything" or "It's like the sun isn't shining" do we just take that as fact? We don't say "Well, I guess you're right. All that bright light must be coming from something else." Yes, the depressed person feels that the sun is dim and there is no hope, but we don't accept that as fact.

    So why should we accept that person's assessment of depression-as-physical-illness as fact? I'm not saying we should just ignore it or belittle it, but we don't have to accept it as unquestionable fact, either. One of the most important things to know about depression is that it's very good at preserving itself. It will use all its powers to convince you there is no hope; to dissuade you from even trying to change things.

    Depression deceives. Of course it's going to tell you it's an incurable ailment that you simply must learn to tolerate, like a lost limb. Of course it's going to construct cartoonish views of "happiness" and "wellness", simply to make them seem all the more unattainable so that you will give up trying. It causes you to misconstrue happiness and wellness as destinations--elite vacation spots where you will never be welcome--because that obscures the truth that happiness and wellness are processes--long, tiresome, and with constant failures.



  • @cartman82 said:

    It's pretty well established everything in the brain is physical. It's not like depression is some amorphous cloud floating around you. It's your neurons being misconnected or not having the right mix of chemicals to work properly or something.

    What the fuck? All thoughts and emotions are electrochemical. Does that automatically make any bad thought or feeling a physical ailment? That's absurd.

    Depression is an emotional, social and intellectual ailment.



  • @Captain said:

    Evidence please.

    No, you need to provide evidence that there is some physical problem--some chemical imbalance--that precedes most cases of depression. If that was the case, then why can it not be detected by tests? How come it's only diagnosed based on the emotional, social and intellectual symptoms? How come anti-depressants are no more effective than placebos for most people?



  • There's a line. Depression crosses the line. So does Alzheimer's. It's more than "oh grandma is having trouble remembering shit!"

    If nothing else, considering it a physical illness means that people will work for a cure. Which is a hell of a lot better than the, "well shit happens I guess" approach Morbs seems to be promoting here.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Yeah. For decades, people knew that stomach ulcers were a physical sickness with physical effects, despite the fact that they didn't know the cause.

    Depression is like stomach ulcers. Except more tricky because, almost certainly, the cause is more complicated than some bacteria.

    Stomach ulcers are a physical ailment. It had a physical manifestation, something that could be seen and measured, before the cause was known. That's the hallmark of a physical ailment--physical problem noted first, cause discovered later.

    In fact, stomach ulcers are a great example of the problem with thinking depression is a physical ailment. For decades people said shit like "Well, stomach ulcers are caused by stress". But they're not, they're caused by bacteria. There was a physical cause all along, not an emotional one.



  • Ok; so what exactly do you propose we do about depression? Nothing? Even in Japan, where the suicide rate is skyrocketing? It just happens, who cares why, enjoy your suicide?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    There's a line. Depression crosses the line. So does Alzheimer's. It's more than "oh grandma is having trouble remembering shit!"

    Alzheimer's has a physical element. What's the element for depression?

    @blakeyrat said:

    If nothing else, considering it a physical illness means that people will work for a cure.

    Or it means people waste their lives looking for something that isn't there. It distracts from the things that might help.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Which is a hell of a lot better than the, "well shit happens I guess" approach Morbs seems to be promoting here.

    Well, first off, shit does happen. Accepting that is part of life. It's certainly not the only option. In fact, that's just a strawman you pulled out of your ass.

    Honestly, that you're trying so hard to mischaracterize what I said tells me you have quite a lot invested in seeing depression as a physical ailment, despite a complete lack of evidence. That's not rational, that's an emotional investment in a particular outcome.


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