Inessential Weirdnesses



  • Because if I make a mistake in a computer program, it either doesn't compile at all (C#), or it runs but it's harmless and you just hit refresh (JavaScript).

    But that's not true at all. You can definitely erase files with C#.

    And a shell command that isn't syntactically correct will throw a syntax error.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @blakeyrat said:

    You could also examine your own life and think, "why am I in a forum arguing that software should be less accessible and less usable? When did I decide to say fuck the world, and give up on humanity? Why am I so fucking awful?"

    No one could honestly say this about their posts here, though, no matter how sincerely you wish your strawman was real.



  • @Captain said:

    But that's not true at all. You can definitely erase files with C#.

    Yup.

    @Captain said:

    And a shell command that isn't syntactically correct will throw a syntax error.

    Only for certain types of syntax errors.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Because if I make a mistake in a computer program, it either doesn't compile at all (C#), or it runs but it's harmless and you just hit refresh (JavaScript).

    If the CLI had any kind of protection in place like that, I might feel more comfortable with it. But nope, you type the wrong thing and woop! You're fucked! No going back! Fuck you, user!

    But there are clearly instances where typing in programs is more dangerous than command line commands.
    Example:
    Writing banking software that transfers lots of money around VS using CLI commands that are non-destructive (eg. searching for files)



  • @cartman82 said:

    But there are clearly instances where typing in programs is more dangerous than command line commands.Example:Writing banking software that transfers lots of money around VS using CLI commands that are non-destructive (eg. searching for files)

    Ok? Again, what's the point? Is this just mouth diarrhea?



  • Only for certain types of syntax errors.

    Right, all of them.

    Semantic errors, on the other hand... but your compiler won't catch those either.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Ok? Again, what's the point? Is this just mouth diarrhea?

    I don't know what point was @captain trying to make.

    Just thought it strange that you're having problems with CLI because you think it's dangerous.



  • I wasn't making a point, so much as asking a question. I found it strange also. Your translation was accurate.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Just thought it strange that you're having problems with CLI because you think it's dangerous.

    It is dangerous. There's no safety nets. There could easily be a CLI version of a recycle bin, or an Undo command, but there's neither. There's no way to even PREVIEW the effects of a command without actually running it. It's fucking awful.



  • There could easily be a CLI version of a recycle bin

    mv file /tmp/

    or an Undo command,

    How? Every command that could possibly make changes would have to have an undo sub-command. Which isn't possible.



  • C# syntax errors are easy to make and easy to catch. CLI syntax errors are from the retarded usability standards that allow -F and -f to do absolutely different stuff, leading to you accidentally disabling your firewall and plugging your LAN port straight into 4chan /r/ when you really wanted to check the uptime on a service.



  • @Captain said:

    How? Every command that could possibly make changes would have to have an undo sub-command. Which isn't possible.

    Sure it's possible. A lot of filesystems have a "snapshot" feature. Fuck, even SQL lets you rollback queries, and SQL was designed in, what, 1972?



  • @mott555 said:

    C# syntax errors are easy to make and easy to catch. CLI syntax errors are from the retarded usability standards that allow -F and -f to do absolutely different stuff, leading to you accidentally disabling your firewall and plugging your LAN port straight into 4chan /r/ when you really wanted to check the uptime on a service.

    Exactly. Or forgetting to enclose a path in quotes which results in deleting all of documents/blakey instead of documents/blakey's stuff or any of a million other examples of why CLIs suck. And that's not even getting into why Linux CLIs go above and beyond and somehow suck even harder.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    It is dangerous. There's no safety nets. There could easily be a CLI version of a recycle bin, or an Undo command, but there's neither. There's no way to even PREVIEW the effects of a command without actually running it. It's fucking awful.

    Ok, that's fair. *nix systems really lack something like restore points or the recycle bin from Windows. And of course, the people who are pushing the development are the same folk who think those things are for babies.

    That said, only a small minority of cli commands I ever used had the capability of causing damage. Probably no need to get all triggered about them and flashback to the time when CLI-s yanked your undies in the school cafeteria and then everybody pointed and laughed at you.



  • Sure it's possible. A lot of filesystems have a "snapshot" feature. Fuck, even SQL lets you rollback queries, and SQL was designed in, what, 1972?

    How would you roll-back "launch the missiles.exe"?



  • Yeah. bash is a crap language.



  • @Captain said:

    How would you roll-back "launch the missiles.exe"?

    Maybe the feature wouldn't be perfect, but wouldn't it be better to have some kind of protection instead of none?

    Hey wait, doesn't this sound familiar...

    http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/data-redaction-done-oracle-style/2155/34

    Oh hey look, Slashdot-itis strikes again.

    EDIT: oh hey look, Discourse linked the wrong post.



  • You pretty much have to use the Share icon or the timestamp to get the URL of the post you want to link. The URL bar shows the top-most visible post, not the "center" post (and the green bar shows the bottom-most visible post).

    Yes, it's a completely retarded design.

    Also nice to note, right-clicking and "open in a new tab" on the arrow to "go to the quoted post" just takes you to the first post in the thread instead of the linked post, because it mangles the topic slug ("via-quote" instead of "data-redaction-done-oracle-style").



  • @blakeyrat said:

    There could easily be a CLI version of a recycle bin, or an Undo command, but there's neither.

    git



  • And don't forget there's SourceTree which is a rather pleasant GUI for Git too.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh hey look, Slashdot-itis strikes again.

    Woo hoo! @blakeyrat misunderstands again!



  • @boomzilla said:

    Woo hoo! @blakeyrat misunderstands again!

    I should take a photo. It'll last longer.



  • @ChaosTheEternal said:

    The URL bar shows the top-most visible post

    Assuming, of course, that you haven't enabled the feature which prevents Dicsourse from shitting all over your browser history. If you have enable this option, the URL bar shows the post where you last entered the topic.

    But you knew that already.



  • I got to post 100-odd of focusing solely on Git being quite crap (And frankly, there are so many GUI options to frontend over Git that it's not really a factor. I like SourceTree, myself, although I use it with BitBucket), and wondered when we were going to get back to conferences are alienating.

    Or maybe in-jokes are alienating.

    Even if that in-joke is quoting a 40-year old comedy skit.

    That's the real bullshit in that article, blakey. No-one is ever going to dispute that Git is a shit to use.


  • :belt_onion:

    this topic is still a thing? maybe we should keep blakeyrat on the lounge, he is a barrier to everyone participating in the likes topic rather than this drivel about a terrible source control gui.


  • Fake News

    @Captain said:

    Yes, why don't we just throw an email client into git, too? No software is complete until it has an email client.

    Have you seen git-send-email and git-am (apply patches from mailbox)? The latter does require a little help from an IMAP client to download emails to the local filesystem, but other than that Git should have you covered.

    We're done here.



  • I feel like this would have been more helpful as ‘incorrectly-regarded-as-essential weirdnesses’, because it's not the behaviors themselves that are alienating, as much as the aggressive moralizing about the behaviors.

    Basically, the recipe for inclusiveness that I see being put forward here is:

    1. don't assume that your cultural values are universal
    2. identify which of your values belong to which cultures you are part of
    3. don't judge people for their cultural values

    Because people are quite robust, and will be able to find common ground between their weirdnesses, as long as they don't feel like they're being judged according to standards they have no way of knowing.

    I guess I'm just saying all this because it seems like the original article (not the one linked in op, the one it quoted) was a straightforward, helpful ‘if you want x, I recommend you do y’ guide to inclusiveness, and the rest of this is an informative case study of how every discussion touching on cultural issues inevitably degenerates into a horrible cascade of shit being poured onto one specific culture.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @Buddy said:

    I feel like this would have been more helpful as ‘incorrectly-regarded-as-essential weirdnesses’, because it's not the behaviors themselves that are alienating, as much as the aggressive moralizing about the behaviors.

    Exactly. I feel like @blakeyrat is trying to alienate me, even though I have no presumption of atheism.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Exactly. I feel like @blakeyrat is trying to alienate me, even though I have no presumption of atheism.

    Yeah, I forgot about the whole atheism / liberalism / anti-patriotism thing. If you end up discussing that shit inside your project's discussion group, you have bigger problems than offended Republicans.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    A lot of the article complains about what could be called internet hipsterism. And that can be annoying. But it's not the same as expectations that your secretarygraphic artist should sleep with you.


  • BINNED

    @blakeyrat said:

    Considering how shitty my accuracy is when getting CLI commands right, I would say "can't". It takes me like 5 tries to get the syntax right, and each try I'm nervous as shit that I'm about to delete something important.

    That may be because you're trying to approach CLI the way you would a GUI: just start working from a basic level and learn new features as you go. This generally doesn't work with CLI, which in most cases requires an upfront investment (reading) to learn how to use it effectively. Your position is that you shouldn't have to read documentation, so you don't. Getting the syntax (and most likely also semantics) wrong is the expected result. So I stand by my original statement.


  • kills Dumbledore

    That's the longest "RTFM" I've ever seen.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    We can do longer. If we cared.



  • @Keith said:

    People around here love to send Word documents as a container for screen grabs.

    Word is by far the best container for screen grabs. It maintains resolution, even if the user shrinks it.

    Now, the users who put screen shots in Powerpoint, now they're TRWTF...



  • @Onyx said:

    The actual scourge is people sending .doc or .docx attachments to me when unnecessary. These include:

    Documents I have no reason to edit, ever. PDF or something, please? Hell, less chance of it falling apart due to different versions is a freebie!

    uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....................



  • So what I'm getting from this thread is that Playskool needs to create source control software for @blakeyrat



  • SourceTree isn't terrible for handling Git but still far more complex than TortoiseSVN is.



  • @Arantor said:

    SourceTree isn't terrible for handling Git but still far more complex than TortoiseSVN is.

    Haven't had the chance to use it yet, although I really want to. I have a Git repository at home, but use TortoiseGit as the GUI.



  • I'd encourage giving it a try, yes 😄



  • SourceTree seems to have a ton of overhead compared to TortoiseGit.



  • @chubertdev said:

    SourceTree seems to have a ton of overhead compared to TortoiseGit.

    It's the only way you keep the GUI obsessed, command line hating lunatics happy.



  • Certain spazzes here would lose it over the setup process.


  • BINNED

    @chubertdev said:

    uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....................

    Elaborate, please?



  • I see more random programs for PDFs than Word docs.



  • Speaking of TortoiseGIT, why haven't they changed it so you don't have to download Git for Windows (formerly known as msysgit) separately? And more confusingly, recommending installing it afterwords rather than before you install TortoiseGIT, which would allow Tortoise to verify its presence rather than presumably just dying.

    Which makes me wonder if that's why it wasn't working for @blakeyrat earlier.



  • @powerlord said:

    Speaking of TortoiseGIT, why haven't they changed it so you don't have to download Git for Windows (formerly known as msysgit) separately? And more confusingly, recommending installing it afterwords rather than before you install TortoiseGIT, which would allow Tortoise to verify its presence rather than presumably just dying.

    Which makes me wonder if that's why it wasn't working for @blakeyrat earlier.

    They probably figured that only one person would be that stupid, and he's not worth anyone's time.


  • BINNED

    @chubertdev said:

    I see more random programs for PDFs than Word docs.

    And yet, I've never seen a PDF completely blow up, regardless of the generator or the viewer. Also, every viewer I ever used, except for Adobe Reader (but that was a long time ago, maybe it's better now, honestly have no idea), started and ran much faster than any office tool.


  • Fake News

    @powerlord said:

    Speaking of TortoiseGIT, why haven't they changed it so you don't have to download Git for Windows (formerly known as msysgit) separately?

    That would be too much common sense, wouldn't it? Or maybe one of the devs makes his own commercial git client.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    My machines like to get themselves into weird workflows around PDFs. One of them seems to be downloading the PDF attachment so it can open in the browser when clicked. Another was opening to Google Drive, but when "save" was clicked would open in the browser, requiring a third click to actually download the thing.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    My machines like to get themselves into weird workflows around PDFs. One of them seems to be downloading the PDF attachment so it can open in the browser when clicked. Another was opening to Google Drive, but when "save" was clicked would open in the browser, requiring a third click to actually download the thing.

    I've seen certain third-party tools not be able to display a lot of content that was created in the Adobe programs. My wife had an awful time with OpenOffice in this regard.


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