Well, *how* senior?



  • So, on the job hunt I run into all sorts of WTF. Poorly worded job descriptions, cheapskate "let's make the next Facebook" offers, and extremely optimistic minimum requirements (20+ years in embedded linux... seriously?) abound.

    This one really stuck out, though:

    Senior Web Developer
    ...
    Click below to apply. If you can't click the link, copy and paste it into your browser.
    http://561f6d79.cxjob1.com/853a0c29

    (src: http://greenville.craigslist.org/web/4574398898.html)

    Do you really want to consider someone for that job who needs to be walked through opening a link? To cap it all off, the "link" they provide is formatted like a link (bold, blue, underlined), but isn't. The link itself looks like it's supposed to be a shortened URI, but the URI it redirects to (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/job/Senior-Web-Developer/853a0c29/?source=craigslist) would be easier to type.



  • They put a link tracker on their job tracker so they can track while they track.


  • BINNED

    @chubertdev said:

    They put a link tracker on their job tracker so they can track while they track.

    Today was one of the rare occasions I wanted to actually click the link in one of the LinkedIn emails. Then I noticed the horror of the href:

    http://www.linkedin.com/e/v2?e=some-bullshit-here&t=plh&midToken=token-stuff&tracking=whatever&ek=content_ecosystem_digest&urlhash=SvsR&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Ftoday%2Fpost%2Farticle%2F20140809132357-1270637-an-honest-message-from-your-it-guy

    Well done LinkedIn, you made me click it directly, because you made it too much of a pain in the ass to extract the proper URL out. Might as well minified it at that point.

    Some hashes stripped out, probably too many, CBA to figure out which are relevant



  • Probably some PR drone who got their experience in a cement factory.



  • Url= through your nearest url decoder



  • @VaelynPhi said:

    Do you really want to consider someone for that job who needs to be walked through opening a link?

    In university, one of my courses involved designing a chip in VHDL and running it in a (crappy) simulator program. The "manual" they gave us for that contained instructions like "move your mouse until the cursor is over the "OK" button, then press the left button to close the window" or "click and hold the darker part of the scroll bar on the right and then move the mouse down to see more content".

    I like to think that it was written sarcastically after someone complained the instructions weren't clear enough. But you never know...



  • @anonymous234 said:

    designing a chip in VHDL and running it in a (crappy) simulator

    Which (crappy) simulator? And what did your chip do?



  • Well the case of the uni is different because well you are not dealing with the brightess.

    In the real world...
    We just had an person interview for an engineering technician position and he admitted he never used Excel before and he was like 40 years old. A 40 year old Excel virgin.

    The reality is that most recruiters and HR people know absolutely jack-squat about technical positions. The ones that do absolutely don't post dumb listings, and in fact I think they are probably more selective about their work.


  • :belt_onion:

    @HardwareGeek said:

    @anonymous234 said:
    designing a chip in VHDL and running it in a (crappy) simulator program

    Which (crappy) simulator? And what did your chip do?

    Fairly sure that's a standard required course for anyone getting a CS degree in the last 20 years. Ours was to design & build an 8bit processor from scratch. We also had to write a compiler that could compile a limited instruction set to a binary to run on the processor to test it. If it was good enough, they wouldn't just simulate it, they'd upload it to a PLA that had an LED 88 output. I think the simulator/designer software was MaxPlus.



  • Back in my day, before VHDL existed (or if it did, it was just something DARPA was playing with, and hadn't yet been released into the wild), I designed a UART in gates and modeled it in C, with the intention of having it fabricated at MOSIS, although that didn't happen for reasons.

    The project also included attempting to port physical design software (the name of which is lost in the mists of time) from Sun workstations (of which we had none) to some Tek vector graphics terminal running on a Pyramid mini, which didn't get finished because at some point the school obtained (borrowed, IIRC) a Sun, doing the actual physical design of the chip, designing my own gates because, as it turned out, the gate library that came with the program wasn't compatible with MOSIS's process, and sending it off to MOSIS.

    I posted in another thread somewhere about my first ever attempt to send email outside the uni's own mail system going into the bit bucket because some server in the bang-path was down; that email was an attempt to contact MOSIS. Talk about biting off more than I could chew!!!



  • You can use one of these links instead. Much less suspicious.



  • 10/10 would click again


  • BINNED

    @Matches said:

    Url= through your nearest url decoder

    Still more work than copy/pasting.

    Besides, they never get any tracking pixels from me, might as well throw them a bone.



  • Yo dawg.


  • Fake News

    @Onyx said:

    Today was one of the rare occasions I wanted to actually click the link in one of the LinkedIn emails. Then I noticed the horror of the href:

    http://www.linkedin.com/e/v2?e=some-bullshit-here&t=plh&midToken=token-stuff&tracking=whatever&ek=content_ecosystem_digest&urlhash=SvsR&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Ftoday%2Fpost%2Farticle%2F20140809132357-1270637-an-honest-message-from-your-it-guy

    Well done LinkedIn, you made me click it directly, because you made it too much of a pain in the ass to extract the proper URL out.

    In this case it looks futile anyway - the link goes right back to LinkedIn. As if simple links to your own domain wouldn't suffice...



  • One called LogicWorks. Not actually that crappy, it's just that

    • It crashes at random times when simulating with cryptic messages, and is slow as hell to restart
    • It has the appearance of a Windows 98 program, and it probably is one
    • Worst of all, it ignores the scroll wheel

    First course we used it to build a basic microcontroller from smaller parts (ALU, control unit, memory...). Second course we made a simple cache controller in VHDL (I swear we've spent like 1/3rd of the degree studying CPU cache). Third course is making a full processor (with instruction pipelining and shit) in VHDL and "running" it in a FPGA.



  • "From Scratch"..... Individual Resistors and Diodes?? [No Transistors!]..... Good to see a University doing some serious work...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @darkmatter said:

    Fairly sure that's a standard required course for anyone getting a CS degree in the last 20 years.

    Not quite. 20 years ago, auto-routing tools were still expensive and a bit crappy (especially on the low-end workstations we had) so we made rather simpler systems and hand-routed them. Making anything complicated was… challenging and boring at the same time.

    The tools were improving rapidly then. I guess only the year or two after me were limited to such rubbish as I had to put up with, and then it became possible to use something non-shit.


  • :belt_onion:

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    "From Scratch"..... Individual Resistors and Diodes?? [No Transistors!]..... Good to see a University doing some serious work...

    Ok, not that much from scratch, at least not in that particular class. We started with the basic logic gates as the building blocks. Like starting with flour rather than having to get out your millstone and grind some up.

    Building the different logic gates from resistors, etc was a different class that I also took, but there is no chance of me remembering any of that at this point. I'd definitely need a refresher.



  • @darkmatter said:

    Ok, not that much from scratch

    First, create the universe....


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @darkmatter said:

    basic logic gates

    Usually people start slightly higher because there are creative ways to combine transistors to make complex logic gates.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    I did a minor in CS and I had to work out the logical diagrams for the SPARC architecture on paper by hand. That's when it really sunk in that I'm not a low-level embedded-systems kind of person >.> I graduated without taking any of the engineering type classes, though I know a few people that are doing Computer Engineering degrees these days.

    In my Masters', the hardest part was trying to get @#@%#@ ASP.NET to @#@$#@ do what I told it. But my Masters' was kind of crap.



  • @dkf said:

    Usually people start slightly higher because there are creative ways to combine transistors to make complex logic gates.

    The fundamental logic structures in a CMOS process are and-or-invert and or-and-invert. For example !((a & b & c) | (d & e & f) | (g & h)) can be a single gate. NAND, NOR and inverter are special cases (simplifications) of these. Additional transistors can be added to the fundamental structures to add additional terms or functions to the logic. For example, changing the above to use (!g & !h).



  • @anonymous234 said:

    It crashes at random times when simulating with cryptic messages

    Why would you simulate with cryptic messages?



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    The fundamental logic structures in a CMOS process are and-or-invert and or-and-invert. For example !((a & b & c) | (d & e & f) | (g & h)) can be a single gate. NAND, NOR and inverter are special cases (simplifications) of these. Additional transistors can be added to the fundamental structures to add additional terms or functions to the logic. For example, changing the above to use (!g & !h).

    Actually, transmission gates (the venerable CMOS 4066 analog switch IC is an example of this function) can be used to provide simpler versions of certain functions (XOR/XNOR, in particular: you also see transmission gates used to simplify sequential circuits). This lecture talks a bit more about transmission gates as used in logic.



  • @tarunik said:

    transmission gates

    Yeah, but I tend to thing of these as analog functions.

    @tarunik said:

    the venerable CMOS 4066 analog switch IC is an example of this function

    Q.E.D.

    @tarunik said:

    you also see transmission gates used to simplify sequential circuits

    I certainly remember them being used for this 30 years ago; not so much any more, but then I try not to look at what's inside the gates/flops. Actually, I try not to look even at the gates and stick to Verilog, but sometimes I can't avoid it.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    tarunik said:
    transmission gates

    Yeah, but I tend to thing of these as analog functions.

    tarunik said:
    the venerable CMOS 4066 analog switch IC is an example of this function

    Q.E.D.

    As they say, "Well grounded, digital is analog" (it's the title of a Maxim/Dallas appnote on grounding, actually)



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    I did a minor in CS and I had to work out the logical diagrams for the SPARC architecture on paper by hand. That's when it really sunk in that I'm not a low-level embedded-systems kind of person >.> I graduated without taking any of the engineering type classes, though I know a few people that are doing Computer Engineering degrees these days.

    In my Masters', the hardest part was trying to get @#@%#@ ASP.NET to @#@$#@ do what I told it. But my Masters' was kind of crap.

    Weird, I guess it takes natural ability, too. I could never work on embedded, but ASP .NET fits like a glove for me.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    I should probably clarify that my computer architecture and assembly course in undergrad was decidedly harder than my "Software Engineering Semester 2" which got co-opted in favor of "Learn .NET web skills basically on your own" in my masters'. But trying to debug ASP.NET resulted in some hair loss for sure, since it kept auto-generating things and removing my changes and so forth. We didn't learn any frameworks like MVC, we were expected to drag and drop and I went above and beyond and tried to learn how to tweak the controls to my liking so it'd look pretty, which was clearly a mistake.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    I should probably clarify that my computer architecture and assembly course in undergrad was decidedly harder than my "Software Engineering Semester 2" which got co-opted in favor of "Learn .NET web skills basically on your own" in my masters'. But trying to debug ASP.NET resulted in some hair loss for sure, since it kept auto-generating things and removing my changes and so forth. We didn't learn any frameworks like MVC, we were expected to drag and drop and I went above and beyond and tried to learn how to tweak the controls to my liking so it'd look pretty, which was clearly a mistake.

    Oh, that's rough. At my first job out of college, which was a .NET consulting company, the developers (75% of the company) would pretty much say that you wouldn't last long if you used Visual Studio in design view.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @chubertdev said:

    you wouldn't last long if you used Visual Studio in design view.

    Yeah, I'd done some desktop development in C# so I was already wary of the designer, but I did not expect my changes in code view to get overwritten so easily, nor that there were certain properties I could not set programatically (or that were very well hidden) so I'd have to resort to design view to fix them....



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    Yeah, I'd done some desktop development in C# so I was already wary of the designer, but I did not expect my changes in code view to get overwritten so easily, nor that there were certain properties I could not set programatically (or that were very well hidden) so I'd have to resort to design view to fix them....

    Like which properties?

    I'm used to having a designer lay out the page with CSS/HTML, then going in and replacing the HTML with the corresponding .NET controls, and never having to touch the front end again.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    It was years ago, but I remember mostly having trouble when I tried to make nice fancy views of tabular data from an access database backend. It was that one control, I want to say datatable or tableview or something like that.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    It was years ago, but I remember mostly having trouble when I tried to make nice fancy views of tabular data from an access database backend. It was that one control, I want to say datatable or tableview or something like that.

    There's Your Problem™.

    Also, I'm guess that it was a ListView control.



  • Probably GridView? I've not had issues with them dropping properties, or having to only set some properties from code (though I have with other controls), but I never messed with them (or really any controls) in design mode.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    I found the documentation I put together to hand in with the code... oh god, it's all coming back to me...

    I think this was the page that kept deleting some setting I was using....

    The above was a nightmare to implement too....

    And yet that was surprisingly easy to implement.

    None of this should have been hard.... I intentionally found the douchiest stock photo guys to use all over the app just to get some petty revenge on my professor. This guy was my favorite:



  • That is a work of art.



  • I want to meet smart.



  • Meet smart. Meet S-Mart.



  • @darkmatter said:

    Fairly sure that's a standard required course for anyone getting a CS degree in the last 20 years.

    Why would we need a degree for using CS? Granted it has its advantages over DissedCourse...


  • Grade A Premium Asshole


  • BINNED

    Meh. I don't like that ending.


    Filed under: I slept too long!


  • area_deu

    + for the images, especially the last one.



  • @VaelynPhi said:

    Do you really want to consider someone for that job who needs to be walked through opening a link?

    This would be a wtf if the company searching did post that job advert. But they are not:

    "Our client, an innovative and entrepreneurial Software Development Company..."

    So this job advert has been compiled and placed by a recruiter. Who will have used a template. And probably doesn't know too much about web development anyway.

    So, again, not really a wtf.



  • Maybe TRWTF is that they've managed to train us to expect this sort of thing, or at the very least to anticipate it.

    I just realized that I've been liking replies in this thread... as if it were Facebook.

    DISCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOURSE!



  • Well, we could work around that issue by making a plugin. It rewrites the Like button so that instead of liking a post, it replies to it with "+1" and submits.



  • +1



  • @LoremIpsum said:

    Well, we could work around that issue by making a plugin. It rewrites the Like button so that instead of liking a post, it replies to it with "+1" and submits.

    This is close, but it should really be using the html entity version of a unicode character.



  • Anyone one know of a Unicode character for "+1" ?

    The closest I could find was a useless "plus sign below" combining character.


  • BINNED

    @boomzilla said:

    This is close, but it should really be using the html entity version of a unicode character.

    On it! Maybe. If I feel like it.


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