Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome


  • mod

    Continuing the discussion from Topic not found doesn't match expected post style:

    @abarker said:

    I think I may be developing a software oriented version of Stockholm Syndrome. I'm going to call it Discourse Syndrome.

    Are you suffering from a rare form of Stockholm Syndrome known as Discourse Syndrome? Symptoms include:

    • Original dislike to outright hate of Discourse.
    • Gradual change to acceptance
    • Acceptance later replaced by actually liking Discourse.

    Note: At present, all cases of Discourse Syndrome have been associated with actual users of Discourse. It is feared that cases could occur with other WTF software.

    [poll]

    • Yes, I have Discourse Syndrome.
    • No. But I could be in denial.
    • No, I still dislike Discourse.
    • No, I've always loved Discourse.
    • No, Discourse is just misunderstood.
    • FILE_NOT_FOUND
      [/poll]


  • But it really loves me, it's me that's bad.



  • Seriously, and weighing all the pros and cons, I think Discourse is pretty bad at its intended purpose. What it does have going for it is all the modern bells-and-whistles (emoji, one-boxing and what have you), but getting a lot of stuff basic stuff done is a bit of a chore. And I am completely unsold on infinite scrolling.

    That said, its shortcomings do occasionally produce a humorous effect, if one tries hard enough, so I guess it ain't so bad.


    Filed under: FILE_NOT_FOUND


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    No option for 'I don't like it but I don't exactly have much choice in the matter so fuck it'.

    I don't think Discourse is bad for its intended purpose. I think it is bad for this particular community's needs and wants.


  • mod

    @Arantor said:

    No option for 'I don't like it but I don't exactly have much choice in the matter so fuck it'.

    So don't vote, or use FILE_NOT_FOUND.



  • Discourse is still better than Disqus



  • @Arantor said:

    I don't think Discourse is bad for its intended purpose.

    I do.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I already voted FILE_NOT_FOUND, I just wanted to make it clear that that was my real feeling on the subject at hand, which wasn't an option on the poll but what I would have voted for if it were an option - and I'm sure I'm not alone.



  • All joking aside, it's actually pretty good. Bugs are getting fixed, and you'll forget all about stupid pagination once they implement topic timeline / scrollbar replacement. Which is, IMO, all that is needed for infiniscroll to start paying back the investment.

    PhpBB and other traditional forums might be less buggy and more feature rich ATM, but they will never become more than the blind alleys they are. Discourse at least has a chance.

    If nothing else, it did nudge me out of lurekerdome, so you got that going for you, which is nice.


  • mod

    @Arantor said:

    I already voted FILE_NOT_FOUND, I just wanted to make it clear that that was my real feeling on the subject at hand, which wasn't an option on the poll but what I would have voted for if it were an option - and I'm sure I'm not alone.

    Actually, after reviewing the options I provided, I think that "No, I still dislike Discourse" best fits your view point, thought "loathe" would be a better word in your case.


  • mod

    @cartman82 said:

    All joking aside, it's actually pretty good. Bugs are getting fixed, and you'll forget all about stupid pagination once they implement topic timeline / scrollbar replacement. Which is, IMO, all that is needed for infiniscroll to start paying back the investment.

    PhpBB and other traditional forums might be less buggy and more feature rich ATM, but they will never become more than the blind alleys they are. Discourse at least has a chance.

    If nothing else, it did nudge me out of lurekerdome, so you got that going for you, which is nice.

    Oh my, a full blown case of Discourse Syndrome.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Actually, I forgot all about pagination as soon as I kept up with topics, meaning that with the occasional exception I was only ever seeing a few posts per topic.

    Loathe's too harsh. I dislike it and am resigned to the fact that if I want to be a part of this community, that most of the WTFs I perceive are never going to be fixed.



  • I'm still finding things that I don't like. With longer topics, it's becoming even more apparent that infinite scrolling is a horrible, horrible choice.



  • @Arantor said:

    I don't think Discourse is bad for its intended purpose. I think it is bad for this particular community's needs and wants.

    This. Very very this.



  • No, I still dislike Discurse, but not as much as I did at first. It's possible this might eventually develop into actual Discurse Syndrome. However, I will continue to ridicule it by calling it Discurse.



  • I like Discourse because it apparently replaced the users in the forum with friendlier ones.


  • mod

    @anonymous234 said:

    I like Discourse because it apparently replaced the users in the forum with friendlier ones.

    You haven't been in the right topics.



  • Well the one about feminism is staying unread, thank you very much.

    The likes thread has 1200 posts... wtf are people doing in there? I don't want to know. But there's an average of 15 likes per post so it must be working.

    I think those 2 have over 50% of the posts, so you might be right.


  • mod

    @anonymous234 said:

    The likes thread has 1200 posts... wtf are people doing in there?

    Mention bombing, talking about random stuff, like farming ... you know. Stuff.

    @anonymous234 said:

    15 likes per post so it must be working.

    That has more to do with the topic rules than the actual content. The topic was started on the premise that you must like every post in that topic.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    The ones about feminism started out about feminism and wove their way into capitalism and economic theory and lots of inanity around the subject from person or persons who may or may not have any clue WTF is going on.



  • @Arantor said:

    The ones about feminism started out about feminism and wove their way into capitalism and economic theory and lots of inanity around the subject from person or persons who may or may not have any clue WTF is going on.

    Like the CS topics of old...


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Quite so. The software's changed but the hearts and minds of the people that abuse it have, largely, not.



  • Love? Here was me after installing discourse..."oh, that was easy. wow, neat interface, oh that's cool", then it was, ""I AM Going to overthrow every stock trade message board and forum with Discourse, fuck those old rag tag shitty stock trading boards, fuck yahoo message boards FUCK SHITTER (I mean twitter)...Complete annihilation is the only option....AGHHG where are my stock tickers TAGs...I Need TAGSSSSS. Hack, cough Golum! Golum!"

    Then my discourse instance broke on update 0.9.9.6. I drank heavily and many times I raised my fists and shook them at the sky. I cursed the gods and mighty Apollo for stealing my power and throwing me in the gutter like a dying wet rat. Then a battle ensued (something something) spears...(something else). Xerces. (Some gayness...) a weird orgy with a deformed humpback.

    You know, normal stuff.

    While all that action was going on...I saw Jeff tweet something. It was upsetting to read. Obviously some people were being nasty...I decided to investigate and it lead me to this site (right lead? wrong lead? not sure.)...And I watched the carnage and listened to the howls of pain, loathing and misery (as if a millions voice cried out...and were suddenly silenced....)

    So I created an account and ran through this site hearting posts...then made a post here on pagination improvements.

    And there you have it. Now I WTF along with everyone else. So I guess I'm ok. I still love discourse and its misunderstood.

    With all that said: I have hiJnks.com back online as of 5 minutes ago. I am now at 0.9.9.10 (lol) I thought that was a joke on meta.discourse by the ARS Technica guy.



  • I think of discourse more as a mentally disabled child than a form software. Nursing such a life form isn't exactly my dream job. So yeah, I still dislike it.

    By the way, this is my posting experience on my phone:



  • @cartman82 said:

    you'll forget all about stupid pagination once they implement topic timeline / scrollbar replacement. Which is, IMO, all that is needed for infiniscroll to start paying back the investment.

    Frankly, I'll believe it when I see it. At present, I don't think the problem is with the implementation, but with the concept itself. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but won't hold my breath.



  • @chubertdev said:

    With longer topics, it's becoming even more apparent that infinite scrolling is a horrible, horrible choice.

    My sentiments exactly.



  • @FILE_NOT_FOUND said:

    By the way, this is my posting experience on my phone:

    Maybe if Discourse was given more than 12 pixels of vertical space, it would have a better experience for you. What's with the empty space between the top of the keys and the top of the keyboard? And why is the address bar not automatically hidden in cases like this?



  • The black space above the keys is for word completion. You have to scroll up for the address bar to disappear, which for some reason doesn't work in the editor. This is stock Chrome on CyanogenMod 11.



  • @FILE_NOT_FOUND said:


    It's obvious that you are doing it wrongtm!



  • @Arantor said:

    No option for 'I don't like it but I don't exactly have much choice in the matter so fuck it'.

    +1

    What I dislike most about Discourse is that its intended purpose is to be a forum software that has learned from all the mistakes other forum software makes.

    And yet currently Discourse is a well of wtfs; Discourse ist for me a good example of how not to build a forum software in 2014.

    That starts with the editor and its formatting mess and doesn't end with infinite scrolling. And that Discourse is close to unusable on a smartphone is, in 2014, a joke in itself.



  • @chubertdev said:

    With longer topics, it's becoming even more apparent that infinite scrolling is a horrible, horrible choice.

    Discourse is for the new generation of internet user. The ones who have threads maybe 30 posts long if they try. Also, you're supposed to use the 'Reply as new topic' and suchlike to create new threads, instead of replying in the same thread if your reply is on a tangent to the OP. That's @codinghorror's intent for it, anyway.


    Filed under: Tabs


  • Banned

    @faoileag said:

    And that Discourse is close to unusable on a smartphone is, in 2014, a joke in itself.

    The mobile phone interface is fine for consumption, where it has issues is around content production. TRWTF is the mess position fixed is on mobile across all vendors.



  • @sam said:

    where [the mobile phone interface] has issues is around content production.

    For a forum software content production could be regarded as a core feature.

    Yes, I can post from my mobile phone. And I can reply. But I can't quote and in fast-filling threads the ability to quote is essential for understanding.

    So I take my mobile phone, load the forum (without wlan that in itself is no fun) and read the latest posts. And then I go back to my desktop machine to reply.

    I don't outright hate Discourse and you guys have done a lot in the past few weeks to improve usability, but it is glitches like that that make me consider Discourse as an example of how not do it right now.

    There is an adage: you only have one chance to make a first impression. The first impression Discourse created in this community was not good.

    Discourse is improving, but some restrictions (like no easy way to create nested quotes) that go against what the user wants (at least in this community) will always irk people. Or outright alienate them.

    I might eventually come to the point where I call Discourse "a great piece of software". But it will not be before Discourse offers one-click-nested-quotes, real pagination and a good user experience on the smartphone.


  • Banned

    I am curious do you know of any, non native, mobile phone websites that are great at content production?



  • @sam said:

    I am curious do you know of any, non native, mobile phone websites that are great at content production?

    Actually, yes: the forum of www.heise.de. I can quote and I see the full editor window above the virtual keyboard.

    And if you look at the mobile experience of that forum, it is clear why: that forum knows when it is displayed / used on a smartphone and changes the layout accordingly.

    Edit: I hope by "non native" you don't mean: "a website where no extra work has been done to render a useful experience on mobile". Because not going that extra mile in 2014 would be a wtf in itself.


  • Banned

    When you offer 50px of usable vertical space in landscape orientation, I would say Android is the real wtf here.

    It's kind of like, "Hey, when I make my browser window really small, I can barely use your site. Your site is broken."

    That or, you know, rotate your phone.



  • @codinghorror said:

    I would say Android is the real wtf here.

    So I quote an example of good user experience on an Android phone in portrait mode, contrast that with Discourse's usability, and you say Android is the real wtf?

    Sorry Jeff, get real. It is your job to deliver a good user experience on mobile.

    To tell the users that their device is TRWTF is extremely lame.



  • @faoileag said:

    To tell the users that their device is TRWTF is extremely lame.

    You're holding it wrong.


    Filed under: Steve Jobs


  • Banned

    Well, look at the screenshot. How many px of usable space do you see there? This is completely worthy of a WTF entry in its own right. Android is still pretty bad, and I say this as a daily Nexus 5 user. Have I mentioned that Android Chrome has crippling performance problems unique to the platform as well?



  • @codinghorror said:

    Well, look at the screenshot. How many px of usable space do you see there?

    First, that looks suspiciously like landscape mode to me. Turn your phone by 90° and you will have more vertical real estate to display the editor in. In other words: if you insist on holding your phone in landscape mode, you are doing it wrong.

    Second, I see plenty of unused space where, e.g. the quote button could go, on the right side of the "cancel" button.

    Third, if you insist that the editor should also be usable in landscape mode (as would be your right as a user of Discourse), then give the box a special "landscape-mode" layout: putting the buttons on the left will give you at least one more line in landscape-mode.

    Finally: less padding will also give you more room for the main functionality. What the heck, why not go to extremes (as Apple did when they went from skeuomorph to extremely-reduced-flat) and simply make the editor window take the entire window (1 pixel border) with a "hamburger" somewhere for quote, cancel, reply, upload...?

    It's up to you how you do it. Just do it.


  • Banned

    Speaking of doing it wrong, do you really feel it is necessary to manually quote the image directly under the post above, which contains the very same image, literally 100px above? What does this redundant duplication achieve other than needlessly pushing your reply text down?



  • @codinghorror said:

    Well, look at the screenshot. How many px of usable space do you see there? This is completely worthy of a WTF entry in its own right. Android is still pretty bad, and I say this as a daily Nexus 5 user. Have I mentioned that Android Chrome has crippling performance problems unique to the platform as well?

    @faoileag said:

    First, that looks suspiciously like landscape mode to me. Turn your phone by 90° and you will have more vertical real estate to display the editor in. In other words: if you insist on holding your phone in landscape mode, you are doing it wrong.

    Second, I see plenty of unused space where, e.g. the quote button could go, on the right side of the "cancel" button.

    Third, if you insist that the editor should also be usable in landscape mode (as would be your right as a user of Discourse), then give the box a special "landscape-mode" layout: putting the buttons on the left will give you at least one more line in landscape-mode.

    Finally: less padding will also give you more room for the main functionality. What the heck, why not go to extremes (as Apple did when they went from skeuomorph to extremely-reduced-flat) and simply make the editor window take the entire window (1 pixel border) with a "hamburger" somewhere for quote, cancel, reply, upload...?

    It's up to you how you do it. Just do it.

    @codinghorror said:

    Speaking of doing it wrong, do you really feel it is necessary to manually quote the image directly under the post above, which contains the very same image, literally 100px above? What does this redundant duplication achieve other than needlessly pushing your reply text down?

    I agree with @codinghorror, that's really annoying.



  • @faoileag said:

    Just do it.

    I hope you got at least a pair of Nike's out of that sponsor deal.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Speaking of doing it wrong, do you really feel it is necessary to manually quote the image directly under the post above, which contains the very same image, literally 100px above?

    No, that was just reflex - it was in the quote, html tags are escaped in quotes and I unescape them out of habit, because all formatting is supressed in quotes. And I want to quote what was originally said, emphasis and all.

    Hmm... perhaps a small button and display media files rolled-in per default when they are in quotes, but you can still rol them out by pressing the button?



  • @Luhmann said:

    @faoileag said:
    Just do it.

    I hope you got at least a pair of Nike's out of that sponsor deal.

    No, a simple mention of the slogan doesn't even merit half a pair of laces.


  • Banned

    The further apart the reply from the post, I agree with you, the more context is needed. But in this case your reply was directly under mine. In any case, the in reply to expansion and selective quote expansion can provide necessary context on demand without needlessly and redundantly pushing your reply text down so far.

    Filed under: barriers to reading are a barrier to reading



  • @faoileag said:

    mention

    So that should have been @JustDoIt then
    Somebody cares to take that name and receive the mentions? You just might get a pair of Nike shoe laces.



  • 50px might not be a lot, but you can definitely work with it.


  • Banned

    @FILE_NOT_FOUND said:

    you can definitely work with it.

    Indeed you can. Or you can rotate the device.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Indeed you can. Or you can rotate the device.

    See @faoileag, I told you you was holding it wrong.


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