You want AES? Alert log errors for you!



  • Oracle provides Advanced Security in their enterprise database software package. Well, it's in all the stuff they release you just have to be sure you pay the tithe or Larry Ellison will come eat your first born child.

    This even extends to their JDBC driver, which just got support for using AES with Oracle 12c.

    For reasons only Satan and Ellison himself will understand, to use AES, you HAVE to configure the Oracle client to do checksum validation.

    The WTFs are:

    Why isn't this documented?
    Not configuring checksum validation generates an error in the alert log per connection. Only DBAs would look at this log. If they even know it exists.
    This EXACT SAME ERROR is documented by Oracle for 11g and 11gr2 services. The fix? Use 3DES168, what could go wrong?
    The connection isn't refused (which is the expected behavior if SQLNET settings don't line up).

    Luckily(?) the application I work on is a service and only polls Oracle every 5 seconds. Not like we'll run out of disk space in a few months if this went unnoticed...



  • Running out of disk space is a feature. It means the Oracle server will stop adding more data to the log file.



  • Running out of disk space means Oracle will still accept request and try to log the failure resulting in an ORA-Fuck-You-Shit-Happens-Pay-Me-Money error. Then you google http://www.dba-oracle.com/consulting_prices.htm and realize you are fucked and cry yourself to sleep.

    Or pray to the Postgres gods that maybe, just maybe you can do a clean conversion, but everyone knows there is no conversion, only PL/SQL.





  • @MathNerdCNU said:

    Satan and Ellison

    Aren't you referring twice to the same guy?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    I thought that Satan was one of Larry's VPs…



  • Yes, Larry seems to be doing well for himself. I always liked him.



  • I got three words into Ora2Pg and saw Perl. Know what Oracle uses for upgrades/security patches/installers/god-knows-what-else? Fucking Perl. Okay maybe Perl itself isn't too bad and I'm unfairly judging. Oracle's software gets its panties wadded up if environment variables aren't just oh-so-correct, x2 if it is a Perl script written by Oracle. That and I'm pretty sure the same intern that writes the Java components of their ancillary tools writes the damn Perl scripts too.

    I did know about EnterpriseDB but there are other external systems that are tied into Oracle and we can't force them to migrate. One of those systems is primarily written in VB6, so getting that into the 21st century is a bigger issue than fighting with Oracle. At least my Oracle DBA really really knows her stuff and I only have to deal with super weird outlier crap like this.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @MathNerdCNU said:

    maybe Perl itself isn't too bad

    Bwahahahahaa!

    I sometimes use Perl, and it's earning of the title of the world's most widespread write-only language is justified. (It might be a reasonable tool for the task to start out with, but maintaining it… “tmtowtdi” is a mark of trouble.)


  • BINNED

    @MathNerdCNU said:

    At least my Oracle DBA really really knows her stuff and I only have to deal with super weird outlier crap like this.

    You know, I keep seeing people referring to female Oracle DBAs. And of two Oracles DBAs I talked with, one of them is a woman. I'm cautious about calling this apparently balanced distribution among sexes a good thing though, it is Oracle after all. From what I read, no living being should be subjected to that, regardless of sex, gender and/or species.

    My working hypothesis is that using Oracle is about as painful as childbirth, so women at least know what to expect.



  • I'm trying to be fair because I haven't had to create any Perl code and/or maintain it. But on the little bit of hacking I tried to do to get around Oracle's stupidity I can see why it is a write-only language. I write/maintain a lot of InstallScript in my day-to-day duties, so my world view is pretty WTFy to being with.

    Nothing like the un-holy trifecta of C, Basic and Pascal all-in-one to make you hate life. :frowning:



  • @MathNerdCNU said:

    Fucking Perl. Okay maybe Perl itself isn't too bad and I'm unfairly judging.

    @dkf said:

    Bwahahahahaa!

    I sometimes use Perl, and it's earning of the title of the world's most widespread write-only language is justified.

    <rant>

    Ok, tired of the knee jerk Perl bashing

    • Perl is the most stable, fastest, and stress-tested scripting language. Bar none. (I may be willing to waffle on the "fastest" qualifier, but not when compared to python, ruby, or java.).
    • It has the largest collection of additional modules of any of them. Many stress tested by the community.
    • It is the oldest (general purpose language), but old ≠ busted, just as new ≠ (improved or good or better).
    • You can do "write only" in any gods-be-damned language.
      • See PBP(Perl Best Practices), and Modern Perl for how to not to do "write only" perl.
      • Perl is one of the best languages for "one off" and or "one liner" scripts because of it's rich vocabulary of built in variables: the so-called "line noise" ones like $!, $?, $_, @_, $| and the like. However writing an application in the same way as a "one off" is neither maintainable, or smart.
    • Re timtowtdi: so every one complains that they get a complete set of tools? Perl is like realizing you have every Craftsman™ tool in existence tucked inside Hermione's purse. The fact you can't figure out which bits to use is not ever a reflection on the tools.
    • Perl's user community is the least snooty, least hostile, most helpful of all the scripting languages. See Perl Monks.

    </rant>

    The language I like least? The one that triggers my acid reflux?

    Python

    The reasons?

    • The "One True Way", "You're Doing It WRONG", "Why Would You Want THAT": all phrases I've heard on Python sites with the additional sense they're tacking "(you asshat)" on the end. Where have we heard those (or similar) phrases recently ⸮
    • White space. Really. White space is for semantic, and esthetic use. Using it for syntax‽ You should die, die, die! Because:
      • It is so much easier to read when the only punctuation for sentences is spaces  See two spaces bring the end of a sentence  One cannot even imagine why this would be hard to read for anyone  The only way it could, maybe, be harder is "f ll wrds wr dsmvwld, thn tht mght b cncdrd rthr bt hrdr t ndrstnd thn jst rmvng prds frm sntncs"  Now let's go for three spaces for separating paragraphs, are you game
      • Because of the above, I've not found any refactoring tools for Python that won't completely fuck up the syntactic white space. Refactoring in Python is at least three times as hard as necessary.

    Other than that I can, have, and probably will again use Python where necessary. When it comes to computational languages, they are both like and unlike religions: you can find plenty to detest in each ( like religion ); if you want to be a programmer, you must choose at least one ( unlike religion ).

    @Onyx said:

    My working hypothesis is that using Oracle is about as painful as childbirth, so women at least know what to expect.

    QFT

    @MathNerdCNU said:

    I'm trying to be fair… Perl code… But on the little bit of hacking I tried to do to get around Oracle's stupidity I can see why it is a write-only language.

    TWTF: basing an evaluation of anything on the poor, traumatized, rocking in the corner with a blank stare, wreck left behind after Oracle's "had it's way with it" (insert imaginary purple dildo, covered in ground glass and PolyGrip™ here). Really, this is a company whose own installers/updaters/add ons/utilities for Java, Oracle DB, really any of their products; have repeatedly been subjected to public ridicule and shame here at DWTF for years.


  • SockDev

    And no language I know is quite as generous about odd but oddly decorative source code as Perl...



  • Yeah, JAPHs are decorative, and fun; and obfus aren't just for Perl (Wikipedia).

    But you sneak that sort of crap into my code base and:



  • IKEA makes cluebats?



  • Where do you think I got mine1:wink:


  • SockDev

    Obfuscation on its own can be a WTF, decorative obfuscation is another matter entirely and while it is certainly possible in other languages, it seems to be so much easier in Perl.


  • Banned

    @M_Adams said:

    White space

    I do agree that in my experience using white space for control leads to tears and suffering. We see this with YAML, and Markdown too. Invisible characters of arbitrary importance are hard to see and understand, who'd a thunk it?



  • @Arantor said:

    decorative obfuscation… it seems to be so much easier in Perl.

    That, I'll have to give you. It is seemingly a part of the design philosophy 'Making Easy Things Easy & Hard Things Possible' , along w/ timtowtdi.



  • Agreed, haven't we all suffered enough from make files and tabs, were no lessons really learned :crying_cat_face: ?


  • SockDev

    One does not simply criticise the work of the Blessed RMS and His Progeny the GNU.



  • And here I thought his progeny were the various skin tabs he eats for sustenance.



  • @M_Adams said:

    skin tabs

    I prefer skin spaces.


  • SockDev

    Probably, but he did spunk out the GNU at some point.


  • BINNED

    @M_Adams said:

    White space. Really. White space is for semantic, and esthetic use. Using it for syntax‽ You should die, die, die!

    Ramen to that. First time I checked out Python after hearing all the praise I gave up as soon as I saw the first control structure. Though process was something like:

    - No brackets? Man, I hate that whole if - endif crap. Or is it if - fi? Don't tell me it also uses elif... or esac.

    - Wait... No closing keywords? How, then, do you... NO! NO! NONONONONON ^W



  • @ben_lubar said:

    I prefer skin spaces.

    Three skin spaces to a skin tab.



  • @dhromed said:

    Three skin spaces to a skin tab.

    That does sound devious enough to be an Oracle setting.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @M_Adams said:

    Perl is the most stable, fastest, and stress-tested scripting language. Bar none. (I may be willing to waffle on the "fastest" qualifier, but not when compared to python, ruby, or java.).

    I would disagree with stable and stress-tested. There are languages even more so than that. (“Scripting” is a foolish misnomer. Accept that and you'll be happier.)

    Java is faster, except for startup. Perl and Java are used in very different ways.

    (And for the record I don't like Python or Ruby either; Python because it gets a number of weird things wrong, and Ruby because it completely fucks up encodings under the covers when things get tricky.)



  • @dkf said:

    (And for the record I don't like Python or Ruby either; Python because it gets a number of weird things wrong, and Ruby because it completely fucks up encodings under the covers when things get tricky.)

    Dang it. Are we supposed to read the fine print around here now?


  • BINNED

    <small> tags are a barrier to reading and should be removed



  • @dkf said:

    Bwahahahahaa!

    I sometimes use Perl, and it's earning of the title of the world's most widespread write-only language is justified. (It might be a reasonable tool for the task to start out with, but maintaining it… “tmtowtdi” is a mark of trouble.)

    The best thing that I've ever done with Perl is replace it with Python.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @chubertdev said:

    The best thing that I've ever done with Perl is replace it with Python.

    Remove Perl from Premises.



  • I was kind'a lumping (pun intended) GNU in with "skin tags".



  • @dkf said:

    "Scripting” is a foolish misnomer. Accept that and you'll be happier.

    I consider "scripting" to be where you skip the compile phase. Perl, Java, Ruby, Python all compile the "script" down to some form of bytecode, whether it gets saved from run to run (Java .class files, Perl under perl -MO=Bytecode=... and use ByteLoader;) or not.

    @dkf said:

    Java is faster, except for startup.

    Obligatory benchmark whoring...

    @dkf said:

    Ruby because it completely fucks up encodings under the covers when things get tricky.

    Truth in Advertising: Unicode in Perl fucks up ithreads —used to emulate fork() on windows ( utf8 + ithreads = sigsegv !)— and is marked basically WONTFIX.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @M_Adams said:

    I consider "scripting" to be where you skip the compile phase. Perl, Java, Ruby, Python all compile the "script" down to some form of bytecode, whether it gets saved from run to run (Java .class files, Perl under perl -MO=Bytecode=... and use ByteLoader;) or not.

    The boundary is very fuzzy indeed, as a lot of modern Java code does runtime bytecode generation under the covers. There's even a fairly reasonable REPL for Java (though the last version of it that I tried is quite a lot slower than compiled Java code).

    Just call them all “programming languages”; it stops you worrying about a proved-silly distinction.



  • @dkf said:

    Just call them all “programming languages”; it stops you worrying about a proved-silly distinction.

    Agreed. Sigh… really hate it when someone points out an inconsistency in my own thought processes.
    And I'll have to give beanshell2 a whirl, I played with the original beanshell (haven't yet found a use for it 'tho).


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @M_Adams said:

    And I'll have to give beanshell2 a whirl, I played with the original beanshell (haven't yet found a use for it 'tho).

    We use it extensively in one of our products. It's by no means the most WTFy thing in there; it does what it says on the tin. (The worst of the worst would be our custom class loader system. I promise I'll write it up one of these days.)



  • This post is deleted!

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