Should big digressions be split to a new topic?



  • @codinghorror - can you seriously stop curating this place like it's your prize garden? Topics wander. Get used to it. It's really annoying when I'm trying to read a topic and it indicates that there are 5 new posts, but then they won't load so I have to hit refresh only to find out you're a micromanaging prick and can't deal with discussion topics being on one and only one topic. </rant>


  • mod

    @rad131304 said:

    @codinghorror - can you seriously stop curating this place like it's your prize garden? Topics wander. Get used to it. It's really annoying when I'm trying to read a topic and it indicates that there are 5 new posts, but then they won't load so I have to hit refresh only to find out you're a micromanaging prick and can't deal with discussion topics being on one and only one topic. </rant>

    :thumbsup: - Because it doesn't qualify for a heart. I really don't like what @codinghorror does with his mod powers.



  • @abarker said:

    I really don't like what @codinghorror does with his mod powers.

    Or his posting. Or really anything he has done with the forum.


  • Banned

    There are lots of places on the Internet, I hear.



  • @hungrier said:

    Or really anything he has done with the forum.

    What, don't you like the lolcats?



  • @codinghorror said:

    There are lots of places on the Internet, I hear.

    If only you could go to those places and make a mess of their community instead.

    Edit: Actually, that's not fair to the other communities. Maybe just hang out on codinghorror.com? I hear they like Discourse there.


  • Banned

    But seriously.

    I didn't think it was cool that on a "hey introduce yourself!" topic, which was going nicely, we had such a massive digression on something that had nothing to do with.. introducing yourself.

    I mean, who wants to introduce themselves on a long discussion about visible post counts and new user indicators?



  • @codinghorror said:

    There are lots of places on the Internet, I hear.

    On some of them, you're even the appointed moderater!



  • I was in two minds, really.

    The one mind was like, goddamnit Atwood this isn't your call

    The other was like, this thread is kind of my baby and it's growing up strong and happy and I guess it was for the best despite our non-interference policy



  • Wait... @codinghorror did you split this off of the split off of the original topic? I have to admit, that is actually kind of funny...


  • Banned

    I know I just met you, and this is crazy, but bear with me here. The idea that

    • meta-discussions about "when and how should we split topic digressions, if at all?" should be in its own, discoverable, properly titled topic

    versus

    • randomly buried as posts 103-146 in some topic with a completely different and totally unrelated title

    Is really important! If you care at all about other human beings being able to process and discover the conversation, anyway.



  • @codinghorror said:

    If you care at all about other human beings being able to process and discover the conversation, anyway.

    We do?

    It's not really that important... In two weeks, everybody's going to forget they had this kind of conversation anyway.



  • @rad131304 said:

    you're a micromanaging prick

    Sometimes he micromanages badly, too. One of the posts he moved from the "What have you done?" topic to the "New user indicators" topic shouldn't have been moved. I can't be bothered to find it now that I've been diverted into yet another new topic, but it was someone who has had quite a remarkably diverse variety of jobs, and was absolutely on-topic in "What have you done?" and absolutely off-topic in "New user indicators."


  • Banned

    Discussions about the governance of the forum, its moderation, and its policies are usually quite important to the most avid participants.

    In fact, I'd argue that they are the basis for most communities to even survive..


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Hmm, I wonder if that correlated with the glitch I experienced accessing the site?



  • Probably; I had one at the same time, too.



  • @codinghorror said:

    There are lots of places on the Internet, I hear.

    Um. Wow. If we had implemented that Worst of the Worst badge I was talking about earlier, I think I would have to hand it off right now.

    Seriously though. I actually have an awful lot of respect for you, Jeff. That being said, what the fuck sort of arrogance is this? This is a community that has already existed for almost a decade. Which you joined... oh look, a little over 2 weeks ago.

    ###STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO DO THINGS YOUR WAY.

    You've already acknowledged that it takes time for a community to adopt a new platform, particularly when it's been using the same software for a long time.

    If you don't like the way that we're using your toy, then TOO FUCKING BAD. We're the community, we get to decide how we play with ourselves.

    Seriously, go check out the old forums for a little while. http://forums.thedailywtf.com/Forums/. Thread drift is a way of life for us.


  • Banned

    @HardwareGeek said:

    One of the posts he moved from the "What have you done?" topic to the "New user indicators" topic shouldn't have been moved

    Ooops, you're right. I moved that one back. Sorry about that. Obligatory:

    Filed under: apparently posting an image is trolling now?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @codinghorror said:

    apparently posting an image is trolling now?

    It can be. It's not usually a substitute for an argument though. And they're down the hall.



  • @codinghorror said:

    In fact, I'd argue that they are the basis for most communities to even survive..

    So, for you, the basis for the community's existence is not actual content, but the discussion about the community itself.

    We call that "circlejerk".


  • Banned

    @mikeTheLiar said:

    Seriously, go check out the old forums for a little while. http://forums.thedailywtf.com/Forums/. Thread drift is a way of life for us.

    Which is totally fine, except when they drift into things I'm responsible for, e.g. this software.

    I can't process information buried in unrelated topics. I can't be responsible for handling feedback about the software we wrote that I can't find.

    So if you don't want me to split topics, then keep the meta discussion in meta.


  • Banned

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    basis for the community's existence

    Basis for survival, not reason to exist. Same reason we have roads, laws, firemen, policemen, jails, libraries, sewers, etc.

    There's a certain amount of public infrastructure / government you have to evolve to survive as a community.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Well, we already have policemen and sewers…



  • @codinghorror said:

    Basis for survival, not reason to exist. Same reason we have roads, laws, systems of justice, firemen, policemen, jails, libraries, sewers, etc.

    There's a certain amount of public infrastructure / government you have to evolve to survive as a community.

    That's not true. A decent communication tool is a convenience, but not a necessity. A strong community can very well live with little to none infrastructure.

    Unless you're the kind of person that has weekly meetings with an agenda with your friends, instead of just gathering people up and heading to the nearest pub. But then, you're beyond help.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Which is totally fine, except when they drift into things I'm responsible for, e.g. this software.

    I can't process information buried in unrelated topics. I can't be responsible for handling feedback about the software we wrote that I can't find.

    So if you don't want me to split topics, then keep the meta discussion in meta.

    The irony here is that you're all about "barriers to reading". And by sweeping all of the discussions about "things that [you're] responsible for", you're actively creating barriers for the community, in order to make it easier for you.

    Of course we're going to discuss this software, that's [in theory at least] THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF THE EXISTENCE OF THIS FORUM - DISCUSSING SOFTWARE. Just because it's your software doesn't exclude it from our discussion.


  • Banned

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    A strong community can very well live with little to none infrastructure.

    Perhaps, but new visitors will come to your town and wonder why your roads are all dirt, why criminals run amok, and periodic fires burn down half the town.

    Then they'll leave as quickly as they can.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    A strong community can very well live with little to none infrastructure.

    Let me introduce you to the era of mankind before paved roads.

    It was fucked.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    That's not true. A decent communication tool is a convenience, but not a necessity. A strong community can very well live with little to none infrastructure.

    The software is the infrastructure. The mods are the police. If things are working well, you smoothly use the infrastructure without thinking about it a whole lot, and the police's efforts don't disrupt anything significantly.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Perhaps, but new visitors will come to your town and wonder why your roads are all dirt, why criminals run amok, and periodic fires burn down half the town.

    That's actually pretty apt for TDWTF forums.

    @codinghorror said:

    Then they'll leave as quickly as they can.

    Or they realize that they've finally come home.



  • @dkf said:

    If things are working well, you smoothly use the infrastructure without thinking about it a whole lot

    Do you think Discourse is like solar panel roads?


  • Banned

    @mikeTheLiar said:

    actively creating barriers for the community

    Do you honestly think a meta topic that correctly describes its contents is a barrier for the community? That having important discussions about how things work in Discourse should be buried in posts 136-164 of some completely unrelated topic?

    I only moderate meta content about Discourse, because I'm held responsible for Discourse. It is literally my job.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Which is totally fine, except when they drift into things I'm responsible for, e.g. this software.

    Recommended reading:

    There are more around but this will do for now.



  • @mikeTheLiar said:

    That's actually pretty apt for TDWTF forums.

    It actually just a front.

    Behind the carboard cutouts of adobe huts, we're putting the cartridge in our nescafe machines, like civilized people

    product placement aye


  • :belt_onion:

    @codinghorror said:

    In fact, I'd argue that they are the basis for most communities to even survive..

    How ever did this place manage to keep forum users for the last 8 years. Bizarre, that.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @mikeTheLiar said:

    That's actually pretty apt for TDWTF forums.

    Heh, but no. There's quite a bit of stamping out of real problems going on (notably spam at the moment). The cops keep moving the shady salesmen on and whitewashing over their ads, but they still can't actually deal with the problem at source.

    I really want an RFC for a Simple Punch-in-the-Face Transport Protocol (SPFTP).


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dhromed said:

    Do you think Discourse is like solar panel roads?

    Of course not. It exists. It is used.



  • @mikeTheLiar said:

    We're the community, we get to decide how we play with ourselves.

    True enough, but I'm bloody well not going to discuss that on a public forum.


  • :belt_onion:

    @codinghorror said:

    Filed under: apparently posting an image is trolling now?

    The last place I saw people tack semi-related images on the end of every single post was 4-chan (where it's a requirement to even post).
    So I'd say yes, mostly trolling.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Perhaps, but new visitors will come to your town and wonder why your roads are all dirt, why criminals run amok, and periodic fires burn down half the town.

    Then they'll leave as quickly as they can.

    But if your imaginary town has a lot of events, points of interest and nice peoplehot chicks to meet, people will come there even if the roads are covered with horseshit and sometimes an old lady with a shovel cuts off the power to the whole district.

    It's not like anybody lives there.


    Filed under: that's why this analogy sucks


  • Banned

    What you describe sounds suspiciously like this.



  • I feel strangely drawn towards it



  • @rad131304 said:

    Topics wander.

    That's not quite right. Topics wander in other forums. On TDWTF they fly around the globe, then usually explore the nearby celestial bodies.



  • ALSO that other CS thread about TWL:

    @Maciemasj said:

    "Disrupting the way you consume."

    Like, tase you when you eat lunch.



  • @ender said:

    That's not quite right. Topics wander in other forums. On TDWTF they fly around the globe, then usually explore the nearby celestial bodies.

    I remember several instances where the topic had sproinged off into the mists immediately after the first post.



  • @codinghorror said:

    Which is totally fine, except when they drift into things I'm responsible for, e.g. this software.

    I can't process information buried in unrelated topics. I can't be responsible for handling feedback about the software we wrote that I can't find.

    So if you don't want me to split topics, then keep the meta discussion in meta.

    If this is a community, that means we should all get a vote on what you're responsible for. I vote that you don't get thread splitting powers because you wield them like Edward Scissor-hands drunk at an all male orgy. Please. Just. Stop.

    If you and only you get to decide what you are responsible for, that's a dictatorship, not a community. Pick one, please.


  • BINNED

    @codinghorror said:

    And it's unclear to me how you want to treat new users here. The usual derision and sneering? But without some influx of new users, eventually your community will die.

    @codinghorror said:

    There are lots of places on the Internet, I hear.

    Quoted for headspinning.


  • mod

    @codinghorror said:

    Discussions about the governance of the forum, its moderation, and its policies are usually quite important to the most avid participants.

    In fact, I'd argue that they are the basis for most communities to even survive..

    Except TDWTF has a proud history of topics/threads that digress. We're used to it, and it can even be fun. And hey, TDWTF has been around for years, so I'd say it's survived quite well without following your idea of how a forum should be.



  • @codinghorror said:

    What you describe sounds suspiciously like this.

    And surprise - somehow they managed to get to the 15th one.

    @dhromed said:

    Maciemasj said:

    Disrupting the way you consume.

    Uh... I did? I honestly can't remember, but it sure sounds funny.


    Filed under: drohomed


  • mod

    @codinghorror said:

    Which is totally fine, except when they drift into things I'm responsible for, e.g. this software.

    I can't process information buried in unrelated topics. I can't be responsible for handling feedback about the software we wrote that I can't find.

    So if you don't want me to split topics, then keep the meta discussion in meta.

    You could try using the search feature you guys think is so great. After all, it will even search the entire forum for you!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @ender said:

    That's not quite right. Topics wander in other forums. On TDWTF they fly around the globe, then usually explore the nearby celestial bodies.

    I'm semi-OK with the splitting being done when it's a real bug in Discourse (or the deployment here of it) that has been found. Given that they're tracking bugs with this thing ( :-( ) splitting them out makes sense. But it oughtn't be done otherwise; digressions are part of our soul. A large, irrelevant part that… oooh, did you see that?


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