"PCs are dead and Microsoft is a goner, everyone will soon upgrade to a tablet/phone/Chromebook"



  • This rage inducing attitude that seems to have infected everyone in charge of anything related to consumer computing.

    Dear decision makers and tech press:

    • Yes, some people replace their *top with a Chromebook or tablet, the easily missable keyword being "some". Just because people who never wanted a computer in the first place because all used it for was to read mail and check the weather now have a cheaper
      option that only reads mail and checks the weather does not mean everyone
      only wants to read mail and check the weather. Good. You bought a bike instead of a car to do your grocery shopping. This means cars are outdated and dead why?
    • Just because people keep replacing their phone or tablet every year while hanging on to their *top for half a decennium doesn't mean it's a more "dynamic" market. It means it's a fashion accessory (Xiaomi once
      managed to successfully drum up a rush to buy a fashionable wireless router). This trend will continue until phones and tablets become a commodity, at which point replacement rates will drop off dramatically as people stop caring about which phone they own. I foresee that this particular star will fuse to iron in about 1-2 years, preceeded by lots of increasingly stupid gimmicks as manufacturers grasp at straws hoping to grab hold of an USP (curved phones! 3D interface! useless heartbeat sensor! three cameras for hardware blur photoshopping!).
    • Just because mobile devices have octo cores and gazillion pixel screens does not mean they are better than *tops. There is no point in either feature (other than the bullet point on a feature list and to compensate for the horribly slow Android) because it's a phone with no keyboard and a tiny screen so the most complicated thing you ever want to run on it is Google Maps Touchwiz. And low quality 3D games, but "this tablet will make the PSP obsolete provided you spend €100 on microtransactions for each game" doesn't bait as many clicks as "this tablet will make the PC obsolete".
    • Yes, you can attach a tablet to a keyboard and achieve a laptop. ("Click!") Now all we need is proper Windows instead of RT and a price drop and we might reach the tipping point where people can successfully replace their ultrabook with an ultrabook (with detachable tablet). Clearly a disruptive revolution right there. Same goes for the Ubuntu Touch dream of a dockable phone that provides desktop functionality, because for some reason the tech press figures that a hypothetical device that functions exactly like a PC when docked isn't a PC.
    • Just because Windows 8 borked the start menu does not mean people are going to jump ship to Linux or Android. Because as it turns out Linux has a different start menu and everything else (not to mention people who can't figure out how to shut down Windows 8 are apparently supposed to install Linux) and Android is just figuring out the whole multitasking thing with lots of help from Samsung and a performance burden that makes the act of running an OS seem like an unsurmountable challenge on contemporary hardware.

    Sorry, just had to get this off my chest. Reading consumer tech media is not good for my heart rate (maybe I should totally buy an S5?).



  • I stopped reading tech news back in the early 2000s when everyone was drooling over OSX, despite the fact it was obviously shitty. That was when I realized the tech media was completely run by people with the intelligence of crows who did nothing but gather piles of shiny objects.

    I briefly started reading again in the mid-2000s, until the iPhone came out and the process repeated itself, although at much more pathetic, fevered pitch.

    Today the tech press is clearly just a bunch of emotionally-stunted males living with pathological sexual repression which manifests itself in the accumulation of worthless gadgets as they desperately seek to find validation of their empty, meaningless lives by having the shiniest, most expensive toys to impress the other man-children with.


    I would just like to add: I'm on my second Android phone. It is so awful that I'm pretty sure my next phone will be a dumbphone. Seriously, I would rather use a Jitterbug than deal with Google's half-baked shit anymore.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Today the tech press is clearly just a bunch of emotionally-stunted males living with pathological sexual repression which manifests itself in the accumulation of worthless gadgets as they desperately seek to find validation of their empty, meaningless lives by having the shiniest, most expensive toys to impress the other man-children with.
     

    Today?!?

     I stopped reading tech press when I realized they never got anything right about Win95 vs. IBM OS2 competition. They were exactly alike at that time.

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I would just like to add: I'm on my second Android phone. It is so awful that I'm pretty sure my next phone will be a dumbphone. Seriously, I would rather use a Jitterbug than deal with Google's half-baked shit anymore.

    Windows Phone blows away iOS and Android right now. Blows them completely out of the water. But nobody will give the OS a chance, because it only has 47 flashlight apps instead of 47,000.



  • Every "tech magazine" wants to be the one that predicted the "next big thing". So when something new comes out, they all start making wild predictions about how it will change everything. Because if you can get it right 1 time out of 10 and there's no penalty for failing the other 9, why not?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    the tech media was completely run by people with the intelligence of crows who did nothing but gather piles of shiny objects.

    As opposed to the person in the street?



  • @Brother Laz said:

    This rage inducing attitude that seems to have infected everyone in charge of anything related to consumer computing.
    It's not just the tech press. The everything-is-a-phone brain worms have been running rampant through the UI development community for quite some years now. And if you bitch about the fugly and useless mess they've made of whatever it was that used to work just fine until they screwed it up? Well, you're just a "luddite" who "fears change".



  • @Gurth said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    the tech media was completely run by people with the intelligence of crows who did nothing but gather piles of shiny objects.

    As opposed to the person in the street?

    This characterization is very insulting to crows.

    "PCs are dead and Microsoft is a goner, everyone will soon upgrade to a tablet/phone/Chromebook"

    Says every guy who still types with one finger.

     

     



  • @Gurth said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    the tech media was completely run by people with the intelligence of crows who did nothing but gather piles of shiny objects.

    As opposed to the person in the street?

    No, "man on the street" opinions are [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLjxEpKZyvI"] much, much worse[/url].

    PROTIP: Watch that with CC turned on for an extra layer of unintended satire.

     

     

     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    But nobody will give the OS a chance, because it only has 47 flashlight apps instead of 47,000.
    You're being facetious (there's an app for that!) but realistically it really is the third-party apps that count. No one company can serve every single niche for software — nor should they even think of trying — but that means you've got to make sure that other specialists can fill the gaps you can't. (Everyone and his dog can do the basic applications well enough.) In a very real sense, Steve Ballmer was not far off the truth when he went on about developers (using a broad interpretation of that term).

    The best thing about Windows for a long time was just how much third party software was available for it. Yes, some was rubbish and much more was irrelevant to me, but the diversity meant it had things I did want. It's exactly the same with iOS/Android. End users don't buy an API; they buy a platform.

    I'm not exactly sure why MS failed at the smartphone/tablet market, but I suspect it was partly bad luck (their OS release cadence was just wrong), and partly that they managed to seriously annoy most phone makers and carriers just at the point where Android was becoming available. Given how important it is to get the hardware integration right and to get the device into the customers' hands, irritating the companies best placed to do it at exactly the time you need them on-side is an own-goal.

    Right now, there are two big players and they're interestingly different. Apple's iOS represents a very high level of integration and tight control; it's total control-freakery, but that does ensure a generally good product, and they've been on top of the market for quite some time now so lots of developers know how to target the platform. Google's Android takes a different approach by being very cheap for many manufacturers to put on their own devices; this reduces the quality of the integration, but does mean a heck of a lot of devices are shipping and there's a gigantic customer base building (it's a stronger effect outside the US) so expect that to be the one where developers are going to want to target first if possible (target where the customer is, duh!). Windows Phone would need an enormous advantage elsewhere to break past either of those; it might be better, but is it that much better?

    Professionally speaking, Android is most interesting as it is the simplest to get testing apps onto. This is far and away the most relevant thing, as we are getting students to develop for the platform as well, and they've got enough trouble with out One More Damn Thing in the way of deployment problems. I suspect that similar concerns are going to mean that Android will totally dominate the “corporate internal apps” market (rather like Windows is very strong in the equivalent market for desktop applications).



  • @dkf said:

    ou're being facetious (there's an app for that!) but realistically it really is the third-party apps that count. No one company can serve every single niche for software — nor should they even think of trying — but that means you've got to make sure that other specialists can fill the gaps you can't. (Everyone and his dog can do the basic applications well enough.) In a very real sense, Steve Ballmer was not far off the truth when he went on about developers (using a broad interpretation of that term).

    1. I hardly have any apps installed on my Android phone. 2) Third-party Android apps are all shitty. The only ones that have any level of quality are iPhone ports like Angry Birds. 3) I would gladly abandon the god-awful Android app marketplace for a smartphone that was good at email, web browsing and using as a phone. Android is terrible at all three.

    @dkf said:

    and they've been on top of the market for quite some time now so lots of developers know how to target the platform.

    Huh? Android has been out-selling the iPhone for years. The reason iPhone has better apps is simply because Android was targeted at poor people and the iPhone was not (although nowadays I'd say both platforms are equally-accessible for the poor.) Poor people don't shell out money so easily for apps. Hence, crappier apps.

    @dkf said:

    I suspect that similar concerns are going to mean that Android will totally dominate the “corporate internal apps” market (rather like Windows is very strong in the equivalent market for desktop applications).

    Doubt it. Executives almost exclusively use iPhones and iPads. Android has the stench of being for poor people, and that ain't gonna change. If the boss-man uses iOS, then the company is going to use iOS.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I would gladly abandon the god-awful Android app marketplace for a smartphone that was good at email, web browsing and using as a phone.
    cough BlackBerry 10 cough



  • @lolwhat said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I would gladly abandon the god-awful Android app marketplace for a smartphone that was good at email, web browsing and using as a phone.
    cough BlackBerry 10 cough

    Was that a joke?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Seriously, I would rather use a Jitterbug than deal with Google's half-baked shit anymore.
    I just read this line, and now "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" is stuck in my head. Thanks.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Was that a joke?
    Actually, no. Despite all the bullshit you'll hear on Arse Technica and the other iOS/Android fanboi / "BlackBerry is teh ghey" sites, BB10 is for people who want a device that, you know, lets you get shit done on it without getting in the fucking way.



  • @dkf said:

    Professionally speaking, Android is most interesting as it is the simplest to get testing apps onto.
    Build (essentially) a Windows 8.1 Metro app. Go to Project Properties, Target Frameworks, check the "phone" box. Connect your phone and hit F5. Done.@dkf said:
    This is far and away the most relevant thing, as we are getting students to develop for the platform as well, and they've got enough trouble with out One More Damn Thing in the way of deployment problems.
    Under Microsoft policies, students can ship 100 free apps or unlimited paid apps, annually, with no restrictions beyond "isn't porn" and "doesn't crash or use native APIs", for free. Since 2006. Sideloading for testing (or porn apps or native API apps) is as easy as making sure your device is on the LAN and clicking "Deploy". Apple definitely can't say that. Google can only sort of say that.@dkf said:
    I suspect that similar concerns are going to mean that Android will totally dominate the “corporate internal apps” market (rather like Windows is very strong in the equivalent market for desktop applications).
    Microsoft has better tooling and nomenclature for their "page-based" model than Google's "activity-based" model, and actually gives meaningful stack traces when things don't go according to plan. While people familiar with the Android ecosystem are probably going to be able to develop at a faster tempo on Android, the developer base for corporate internal apps is going to have a much easier time developing for Windows Phone, especially with the ability to make apps that compile for Windows and Windows Phone in a single project from the same source files, and that will keep the "corporate internal apps" market on Windows Phone.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Build (essentially) a Windows 8.1 Metro app. Go to Project Properties, Target Frameworks, check the "phone" box. Connect your phone and hit F5. Done.
    But the students don't have a Windows Phone. Or at least I've not seen a student with one in recent history.

    This is, of course, totally unfair. True though.



  • I don't disagree with anything you've said.



    @Brother Laz said:

    • Just because mobile devices have octo cores and gazillion pixel screens does not mean they are better than *tops. There is no point in either feature (other than the bullet point on a feature list and to compensate for the horribly slow Android) because it's a phone with no keyboard and a tiny screen so the most complicated thing you ever want to run on it is Google Maps Touchwiz. And low quality 3D games, but "this tablet will make the PSP obsolete provided you spend €100 on microtransactions for each game" doesn't bait as many clicks as "this tablet will make the PC obsolete".
    • Yes, you can attach a tablet to a keyboard and achieve a laptop. ("Click!") Now all we need is proper Windows instead of RT and a price drop and we might reach the tipping point where people can successfully replace their ultrabook with an ultrabook (with detachable tablet). Clearly a disruptive revolution right there. Same goes for the Ubuntu Touch dream of a dockable phone that provides desktop functionality, because for some reason the tech press figures that a hypothetical device that functions exactly like a PC when docked isn't a PC.





    Especially these two. I had a got a great Asus laptop a few years back. It was small, portable, had a 7200RPM drive, and a decent 9800GT video card (at the time, this was great). I loved the hell out of that laptop. For some reason I decided to help a relative out and loaned it to them, only to have it get 'stolen', leaving me stuck with an Android Tablet. Before, when I had the laptop, I liked the tablet. It did great tablet-y things, like web surfing from anywhere. But once I had to rely on it to take over the laptop duties, love turned to loathing. By the time the charging port broke for the second time, I'd made up my mind to dump some money into a replacement. Ended up getting an Asus T100, with a real version of Windows 8.1 on it, not RT, and it's been the best laptop/tablet purchase I've ever made. Sure, I wish it had a bit more CPU power, the 3D performance is absolute shite, and it's really quite limited on storage space. That said, it's a tablet when I want it, but also a laptop, and I'm OK with that. Hopefully manufacturers won't buy into the 'Laptops are dead, everyone make pure tablets now because they are the way of the future" and will make more devices like this.



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    Microsoft has better tooling and nomenclature for their "page-based" model than Google's "activity-based" model, and actually gives meaningful stack traces when things don't go according to plan. While people familiar with the Android ecosystem are probably going to be able to develop at a faster tempo on Android, the developer base for corporate internal apps is going to have a much easier time developing for Windows Phone, especially with the ability to make apps that compile for Windows and Windows Phone in a single project from the same source files, and that will keep the "corporate internal apps" market on Windows Phone.


    The problem there is that, like Blackberry, having a solid lock on the 'corporate internal app' market doesn't help shit if you don't also have decent marketshare on the home and consumer market. Which, for a wide variety of reasons, Windows Phone does not.

    Look, Android right now is in pretty much the same position that Windows was in the late nineties. You can bemoan this and complain about shitty java based FOSS-tard software all you want, but that's how it is. Is it possible for Microsoft to turn things around? Maybe, I dunno. They do have a history of entering marketspaces late, figuring out their initial mistakes and turning into the market leader. See I.E. and Xbox360. But they also have a history of not really understanding non-PC style consumer markets. Who here owns a Zune, hmm? And like it or not, the phone market is NOT the same as the PC market.

    See, the thing that makes the phone market so trend-based isn't the "newness" of smartphones. They've been available for almost a decade now (even longer if you consider PDAs to be their predecessor). The real factor is that the wireless carriers have built the market around 1 to 2 year contracts. Which means that every single consumer is geared toward replacing their phone on a very fast cycle. Which in turn is an incentive for buyers to stay current with fashion trends, since they'll be getting a new phone anyway and it won't cost them anything to get "the new thing." As long as the 2 year contract is in place, phones will never become commodities.



  • @Snooder said:

    They do have a history of entering marketspaces late, figuring out their initial mistakes and turning into the market leader. See I.E. and Xbox360. But they also have a history of not really understanding non-PC style consumer markets. Who here owns a Zune, hmm?

    The original Xbox and Zune were really, really, good products though. People who owned them inevitably loved them.

    I think a lot of Microsoft's problem is that it's "ok" to make fun of Microsoft products you haven't used, and no journalist ever got fired for slamming a MS product. As a result their already-weak marketing department is always digging them out of a hole. And it's not even a hole they made themselves.

    Meanwhile, the press is neutral at worst about Samsung, HTC and other phone vendors, and practically trip over each other to try to write the best free marketing for Apple possible every time they release a new product.



  • Is windows phone open? Can I LOOK at the internals of that phone software?  Most likely not. Android is step in that direction of open source powered phones. Of course Android is also not full open powered. For that we might have to wait another 20 years, but right now it is closest to open than the iPhone and Windows phone.

    @blakeyrat said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    I would just like to add: I'm on my second Android phone. It is so awful that I'm pretty sure my next phone will be a dumbphone. Seriously, I would rather use a Jitterbug than deal with Google's half-baked shit anymore.

    Windows Phone blows away iOS and Android right now. Blows them completely out of the water. But nobody will give the OS a chance, because it only has 47 flashlight apps instead of 47,000.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The original Xbox and Zune were really, really, good products though. People who owned them inevitably loved them.

    I think a lot of Microsoft's problem is that it's "ok" to make fun of Microsoft products you haven't used, and no journalist ever got fired for slamming a MS product. As a result their already-weak marketing department is always digging them out of a hole. And it's not even a hole they made themselves.

    Meanwhile, the press is neutral at worst about Samsung, HTC and other phone vendors, and practically trip over each other to try to write the best free marketing for Apple possible every time they release a new product.



    Are you actually serious with this shit? Do you really think there's some vast conspiracy of journalists keeping the news of Microsoft's glorious products away from consumers?

    Goddamn.

     



  • @Snooder said:

    Are you actually serious with this shit?

    Yes.

    @Snooder said:

    Do you really think there's some vast conspiracy of journalists keeping the news of Microsoft's glorious products away from consumers?

    No.

    I am saying however that if you net up press coverage, Apple coverage is almost 100% positive (regardless of product) and Microsoft coverage is something like 80% negative (regardless of product). Both companies have pundits talking about products they've never used, but in Apple's case those articles are almost always positive, and in Microsoft's case those articles are almost always negative.

    In a lot of cases, people seem to stretch to find *something* to bitch about-- using the original Xbox as an example, remember the mocking it got because it was physically large? Even though it was smaller than virtually any stereo receiver you could buy? Even though the physical size of the console has approximately jack shit to do with its quality? Remember how the Xbox "lost" the Japanese market because the box was so physically large it wouldn't fit in their tiny apartments? Remember how fucking ridiculous that argument was?

    The same happens on forums and other discussions. How many of the people making fun of Vista's crappiness had never even used Vista? (Hint: an extremely high proportion.) How many of those people mocking the Zune had never held one on their hands? Hell, Zune's become such a tired joke that that recent Schwarzenegger tank charity spot used one, even though Arnold literally and admittedly didn't even know what it was?

    Imagine how much Apple's marketing budget would have to be if they didn't get billions in free advertising from every newspaper, TV station, and website in existence. (Additional exercise: imagine the same value but for Disney.)



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The original Xbox and Zune were really, really, good products though. People who owned them inevitably loved them.

    Yes, the 4 peoples that bought a Zune loved it.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    The original Xbox and Zune were really, really, good products though. People who owned them inevitably loved them.

    Yes, the 4 peoples that bought a Zune loved it.

    Right. I loved mine. I still use the Zune software to manage my music, even though the hardware is dead. That's not the measure of a successful product, of course, but I think it's one of the measures of a good product.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @TimeBandit said:
    @blakeyrat said:
    The original Xbox and Zune were really, really, good products though. People who owned them inevitably loved them.

    Yes, the 4 peoples that bought a Zune loved it.

    Right. I loved mine. I still use the Zune software to manage my music, even though the hardware is dead. That's not the measure of a successful product, of course, but I think it's one of the measures of a good product.


    I don't believe the measure of a good product would include this :
    [url=http://gizmodo.com/5121311/30gb-zunes-failing-everywhere-all-at-once]30GB Zunes Failing Everywhere, All At Once[/url]

    But it is on par with that : [url=http://www.wired.com/2012/03/azure-leap-year-bug/]Microsoft Azure Was Downed By Leap-Year Bug[/url]


    Glad you love your Zune software.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    I don't believe the measure of a good product would include this :
    30GB Zunes Failing Everywhere, All At Once

    But it is on par with that : Microsoft Azure Was Downed By Leap-Year Bug

    The exact same thing happened to Sony with the PS3. Do you have that factoid in your little mental database ready to call up at a moment's notice? No? Why is that? What about this little gem from Apple just a few years ago?

    Is it because you only keep this little mental database of "haha this company sux!!!" for Microsoft specifically? Are you worried at all that your posts here are demonstrating my exact point?

    Serious question: have you ever used a Zune, or the Zune software?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    @TimeBandit said:
    I don't believe the measure of a good product would include this :
    30GB Zunes Failing Everywhere, All At Once

    But it is on par with that : Microsoft Azure Was Downed By Leap-Year Bug

    The exact same thing happened to Sony with the PS3. Do you have that factoid in your little mental database ready to call up at a moment's notice? No? Why is that? What about this little gem from Apple just a few years ago?


    OK, you're comparing a bricking bug in the Zune to a bug in the alarm clock of the iPhone?
    @blakeyrat said:

    Is it because you only keep this little mental database of "haha this company sux!!!" for Microsoft specifically?


    I don't see how you can characterize a company worth ~$80 billion as some kind of persecuted underdog.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    OK, you're comparing a bricking bug in the Zune to a bug in the alarm clock of the iPhone?

    Sorry; I didn't get the memo that the word "bricking" now means something other than bricking. The link to the "fix" (wait until tomorrow, exactly the same "fix" as with the PS3) is RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO. Idiot. But this little aside misses the point of my question to TimeBandit.

    @joe.edwards said:

    I don't see how you can characterize a company worth ~$80 billion as some kind of persecuted underdog.

    Because I'm comparing it to Apple, a company in the same basic business with a larger market-cap. And yet somehow Apple get tons of free positive press, and Microsoft does not.

    I don't care, except:
    1) Hypocrisy bugs me
    2) I don't get why a content company whose bread-and-butter is selling advertising space would give away free advertising for what is potentially their largest client

    I'm not saying that Microsoft is a persecuted underdog, but I *am* saying that if they had the kind of free positive advertising that Apple has, the IT world would be a very different place. You may not consider it a *better* place, but you can't deny it would be a *different* one.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    Sorry; I didn't get the memo that the word "bricking" now means something other than bricking.

    It means being unstartable, and unusable for any purpose except being a paperweight, thus having the value of a brick. Which is exactly what happened until the issue was resolved.
    @blakeyrat said:
    RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO. Idiot.

    I wasn't aware of having linked to any article.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    I don't see how you can characterize a company worth ~$80 billion as some kind of persecuted underdog.

    That's because Jobs' RDF hasn't completely faded from your reality yet.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I am saying however that if you net up press coverage, Apple coverage is almost 100% positive (regardless of product) and Microsoft coverage is something like 80% negative (regardless of product). Both companies have pundits talking about products they've never used, but in Apple's case those articles are almost always positive, and in Microsoft's case those articles are almost always negative.


    And that's fucking horseshit. Apple gets just as much flack for fucking up shit as Microsoft does. And Microsoft gets plenty of praise for shit they shouldn't. You're just cherry-picking because you can't understand why people honestly don't like some microsoft products, or why someone could possibly prefer an alternative.

    @blakeyrat said:

    In a lot of cases, people seem to stretch to find something to bitch about-- using the original Xbox as an example, remember the mocking it got because it was physically large? Even though it was smaller than virtually any stereo receiver you could buy? Even though the physical size of the console has approximately jack shit to do with its quality? Remember how the Xbox "lost" the Japanese market because the box was so physically large it wouldn't fit in their tiny apartments? Remember how fucking ridiculous that argument was?

    Again, this is selection bias. Yes, some people had bullshit criticisms of the first Xbox. People have bullshit criticisms of EVERY console. The Playstation had it's share. N64 was for "people with three hands" and Gamecube was "too colorful and clearly the fisher-price console". Dreamcast got shit on for having the cord come out of the wrong end of the controller. Sane and objective people understand that every company gets these criticisms. Only fanboys or crazy conspiracy theorists start to see it is as a concerted effort against a single company.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Imagine how much Apple's marketing budget would have to be if they didn't get billions in free advertising from every newspaper, TV station, and website in existence. (Additional exercise: imagine the same value but for Disney.)


    That shit isn't free man. You want to know why Apple gets the kind of coverage it does? Because they spent a lot of time and effort on trying to look cool. Which means that the sort of young fashion-forward people who read those magazines and watch those tv news channels actually give a fuck about the new Apple release. Or what, you thought Steve Jobs turtlenecks were free?

    Microsoft can't do that, and shouldn't bother. They don't need to try to chase the fickle fashion market. Nobody is going to cover the "new release of Microsoft Server 2015" and that's a good thing. They just need to not fuck up so that people who already own Server 2010 will choose to upgrade because it has more features that they want. 

    Edit: To clarify my point. People care about the "new apple release" because they expect there to be a radically new apple product every few months. Just like they expect to have a new fall fashion, or to have the latest novel release. People do not expect the same out of Microsoft. They like windows and office well enough already and expect it to be basically the same, but slightly better.



  • @Snooder said:

    Apple gets just as much flack for fucking up shit as Microsoft does.

    What publications are you reading?

    @Snooder said:

    Again, this is selection bias.

    I concede the possibility of selection bias.

    @Snooder said:

    N64 was for "people with three hands"

    Did you actually use one of those awful controllers? That criticism was pretty accurate. Controller certainly wasn't designed for humans.

    @Snooder said:

    You want to know why Apple gets the kind of coverage it does? Because they spent a lot of time and effort on trying to look cool.

    So does Sony. But Sony doesn't get the free press. Why is that?

    @Snooder said:

    Microsoft can't do that, and shouldn't bother. They don't need to try to chase the fickle fashion market.

    Which is fine. But it still doesn't answer my underlying confusion about why Apple gets free positive press when Microsoft does not.

    @Snooder said:

    Nobody is going to cover the "new release of Microsoft Server 2015" and that's a good thing.

    Well derp. But why would you use Server as an example and not a consumer product? Guess what: even Apple's non-consumer products (like the Mac Pro) barely get a whisper of coverage, positive or otherwise.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Windows Phone blows away iOS and Android right now. Blows them completely out of the water. But nobody will give the OS a chance, because it only has 47 flashlight apps instead of 47,000.
    Give me something Lumia 620-sized (or maybe a bit smaller) with a better battery, and I'll make the switch away from S60 (why are nearly all modern phones so large?).



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Which is fine. But it still doesn't answer my underlying confusion about why Apple gets free positive press when Microsoft does not.


    My point is that Apple doesn't get free positive press. That's the selection bias helping you ignore articles like http://www.businessinsider.com/why-i-hate-my-brand-new-mac-2012-3.

    See, I remember when the iPhone5 came out with the lightning connector. There was LOTS of flack from the press about apple shitting on their consumers with yet another proprietary data connector. I also remember the whole Foxconn thing and people saying that Apple was somehow responsible for some dude killing himself in a factory in China. I've read plenty of articles calling the iPad a useless and expensive paperweight. Every comedian who wants to make a quick dig at yuppies slides in a "Cult of Apple" joke right after the obligatory "haha IKEA, right?".

    And those are just the bullshit negativity. On the serious criticism side, there are plenty of people in the press unhappy about Apple's dictatorial policies on the AppStore. And there was plenty of press coverage of the collusion scandal with ebook publishers to force the price of ebooks higher.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    I don't see how you can characterize a company worth ~$80 billion as some kind of persecuted underdog.

    What does their market cap have to do with them being persecuted? In fact, I'd say their market cap results in them being persecuted.

    As for underdog: isn't that what brought this up in the first place? Sure, when it comes to enterprise software, office apps and desktop OSes, Microsoft is king. When it comes to phones, they are the underdog, are they not?



  • @Snooder said:

    And that's fucking horseshit. Apple gets just as much flack for fucking up shit as Microsoft does. And Microsoft gets plenty of praise for shit they shouldn't. You're just cherry-picking because you can't understand why people honestly don't like some microsoft products, or why someone could possibly prefer an alternative.

    You lie. Apple gets 100x the undeserved positive press Microsoft does. Seriously, how the fuck can you sit there and be so stupid? If the press was in any way unbiased and not-shitty, Apple would be out of business for selling absolute garbage, Google would fending off lynch mobs and Microsoft would be worth even more than it is.

    @Snooder said:

    Again, this is selection bias. Yes, some people had bullshit criticisms of the first Xbox. People have bullshit criticisms of EVERY console. The Playstation had it's share. N64 was for "people with three hands" and Gamecube was "too colorful and clearly the fisher-price console". Dreamcast got shit on for having the cord come out of the wrong end of the controller. Sane and objective people understand that every company gets these criticisms. Only fanboys or crazy conspiracy theorists start to see it is as a concerted effort against a single company.

    Again: you are lying. I'm not in any way a Microsoft fanboy, but I can clearly see that companies like Apple, Nintendo and Google (and idiotic religions like FOSS) get their fuck-ups airbrushed out while Microsoft gets hounded.

    @Snooder said:

    That shit isn't free man. You want to know why Apple gets the kind of coverage it does? Because they spent a lot of time and effort on trying to look cool. Which means that the sort of young fashion-forward people who read those magazines and watch those tv news channels actually give a fuck about the new Apple release. Or what, you thought Steve Jobs turtlenecks were free?

    I want to quote this so that when you later on realize how retarded you sound and try to go back and delete it, we have a record. "The tech media isn't biased and doesn't give free coverage to Apple because Steve Jobs had to buy his turtlenecks."

    @Snooder said:

    People care about the "new apple release" because they expect there to be a radically new apple product every few months

    Once again: what the fuck? Apple has been selling the same polished turd to "fashion-conscious" people for the last 15 years, whereas Microsoft has actually innovated and released new and different products. I mean, shit, I think Win8 has some serious mis-steps, but at least they're not just updating the fucking icon set and calling it a new release like those cousin-fuckers in Cupertino.



  • I would like to point out the last "innovation" in OS X was making the scrollbars work the wrong way around.

    EDIT: can you imagine the kind of press outcry there would have been had *Microsoft* switched the scrollbars around in Windows first? It would have been deafening.



  • @ender said:

    (why are nearly all modern phones so large?).

    Yeah, I dunno, I assume it's because "gadgets" have become representative of some deep-seated phallic issues. My current phone is a Moto Razr M because it was pretty much the only Android phone I could find that was actually meant to fit into a pocket.


    Attention Android hardware manufacturers: I am quite satisfied with my penis size. Please stop trying to get me to shove a small television set down my pants; I am not interested in a surrogate "bulge".



  • My HTC Titan II is the perfect size (although I wager some people think it's too big). My problem is Windows 8 phones come in either "much larger" or "much smaller" than it... I need to upgrade my phone, but options are much more limited now than Nokia took over than market than before.

    Handy credit card size comparison page



  • @Snooder said:

    My point is that Apple doesn't get free positive press. That's the selection bias helping you ignore articles like http://www.businessinsider.com/why-i-hate-my-brand-new-mac-2012-3.

    Um.. there's a difference between "free positive press" and "no bad press whatsoever". Did Blakey say that nobody has ever criticized Apple? Where did you read that? Was it the voices in your head who told you that?

    The point is Apple churns out shitty products and if the press was unbiased they would hardly get any good press. Instead they get 95% good press, whereas Microsoft is lucky to get 50%.

    @Snooder said:

    I also remember the whole Foxconn thing and people saying that Apple was somehow responsible for some dude killing himself in a factory in China.

    Right, because Apple isn't responsible for the conditions of its workers. It was especially galling because it was Apple: The company for mindless, feel-good, liberal dipshitery. It's less offensive when a company like LG uses slave labour, because they don't pretend to be a "good corporate citizen". Slavery is part of the allure of a company like LG: you know there's a chance some orphan chained to a soldering station died while assembling your TV, but you're gonna save $100 and get a quality displa--oh shit, it caught fire again.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    I would just like to add: I'm on my second Android phone. It is so awful that I'm pretty sure my next phone will be a dumbphone. Seriously, I would rather use a Jitterbug than deal with Google's half-baked shit anymore.

    Windows Phone blows away iOS and Android right now. Blows them completely out of the water. But nobody will give the OS a chance, because it only has 47 flashlight apps instead of 47,000.

    I don't know if WP is really a good OS or not, but I kinda wish they hadn't killed Meego/Harmattan for it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    The point is Apple churns out shitty products and if the press was unbiased they would hardly get any good press. Instead they get 95% good press, whereas Microsoft is lucky to get 50%.

    I think it's also not just about the explicit stories in the tech press (or any other press). You get tv hosts and anchors talking about their phones or whatever, which is basically substance free good press that makes impressions on a deeper level than a serious analysis of feature sets or benchmarks or whatever. Apple and MS both do explicit product placement in shows, but I only see the "voluntary" sort on behalf of Apple. Again, because the perception is that Apple is cool and MS (or BB or generic Android) is not, so there's no point in bragging about it.

    It's like any other bit of fashion.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Attention Android hardware manufacturers: I am quite satisfied with my penis size. Please stop trying to get me to shove a small television set down my pants; I am not interested in a surrogate "bulge".


    I have a Galaxy Note 3. With the case, it is literally bigger than my hand. It does fit in the pocket of every pair of slacks I own. Although generally I prefer to put it in the pocket of a jacket. It's pretty decent excuse to break out the blazer/sportcoat.

    I like the Note. It's much better for browsing the internet, usually if I put it in landscape i don't even have to zoom in to read most non-mobile sites. With the rubber case, I can use it perfectly fine one-handed too. About the only 'problem' is that I can't wear slim fit pants. And that's less of a bug and more of a feature.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Snooder said:
    I also remember the whole Foxconn thing and people saying that Apple was somehow responsible for some dude killing himself in a factory in China.

    Right, because Apple isn't responsible for the conditions of its workers. It was especially galling because it was Apple: The company for mindless, feel-good, liberal dipshitery.


    Technically speaking Snooder is right here, those aren't Apple employees. They are employees of another firm hired to do something basic for Apple, kinda like how my company treats the people handling some of Apple's tech support line like crap. They aren't employees of Apple, just suckers working for the BPO company that cashes Apple checks.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    It's less offensive when a company like LG uses slave labour, because they don't pretend to be a "good corporate citizen". Slavery is part of the allure of a company like LG: you know there's a chance some orphan chained to a soldering station died while assembling your TV, but you're gonna save $100 and get a quality displa--oh shit, it caught fire again.


    Naw, LG is still fairly pricey. You gotta go all the down to a Changhong special (50" for $399) for the dead orphan guarantee.



  • @locallunatic said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    @Snooder said:
    I also remember the whole Foxconn thing and people saying that Apple was somehow responsible for some dude killing himself in a factory in China.

    Right, because Apple isn't responsible for the conditions of its workers. It was especially galling because it was Apple: The company for mindless, feel-good, liberal dipshitery.


    Technically speaking Snooder is right here, those aren't Apple employees. They are employees of another firm hired to do something basic for Apple, kinda like how my company treats the people handling some of Apple's tech support line like crap. They aren't employees of Apple, just suckers working for the BPO company that cashes Apple checks.

    They're not legally Apple employees, but they're doing work on behalf of Apple so it's incumbent on Apple to be sure they're not buying slave labor. It's not like this would have been hard to verify or like Apple didn't know, they just didn't care.



  • @Snooder said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    It's less offensive when a company like LG uses slave labour, because they don't pretend to be a "good corporate citizen". Slavery is part of the allure of a company like LG: you know there's a chance some orphan chained to a soldering station died while assembling your TV, but you're gonna save $100 and get a quality displa--oh shit, it caught fire again.


    Naw, LG is still fairly pricey. You gotta go all the down to a Changhong special (50" for $399) for the dead orphan guarantee.

    Technically I said "like LG". That's how I avoid being sued.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    They're not legally Apple employees, but they're doing work on behalf of Apple so it's incumbent on Apple to be sure they're not buying slave labor. It's not like this would have been hard to verify or like Apple didn't know, they just didn't care.


    Well, it wasn't really so much slave labor, as it was extremely heavy-handed security. Basically, there was a leak of the "new" iPhone4 and the guys at FoxConn basically took one of the employees into a back-room for an "investigation." He died later. The official (and most charitable) explanation is that the stress caused him to kill himself. The conspiracy theories floating around was that he was tortured to death by FoxConn security in order to keep on Apple's good side. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @locallunatic said:
    @morbiuswilters said:
    @Snooder said:
    I also remember the whole Foxconn thing and people saying that Apple was somehow responsible for some dude killing himself in a factory in China.

    Right, because Apple isn't responsible for the conditions of its workers. It was especially galling because it was Apple: The company for mindless, feel-good, liberal dipshitery.


    Technically speaking Snooder is right here, those aren't Apple employees. They are employees of another firm hired to do something basic for Apple, kinda like how my company treats the people handling some of Apple's tech support line like crap. They aren't employees of Apple, just suckers working for the BPO company that cashes Apple checks.

    They're not legally Apple employees, but they're doing work on behalf of Apple so it's incumbent on Apple to be sure they're not buying slave labor. It's not like this would have been hard to verify or like Apple didn't know, they just didn't care.


    My guess is that they do care; they want it to happen because it saves a few bucks. Just like any other company that outsources something central (or at least close) to what they do, the insurance companies that my section works with certainly don't care about how things are done (except when legally mandated that they care).


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