The Yearning
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@blakeyrat said:
Another PhD once pitched passing data in a URL by taking a XML object, running EncodeURLComponent() on it, then putting it in a param.
Jesus. I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation. One of two things, both equally extreme: 1) start laughing uncontrollably. Serious, gut-busting, side splitting, literally unable to stand up laughing OR 2) seething, boiling, mindless rage. Red-face, pulsing neck veins, screaming at him to get out of the room before I threw something at him. Then throw something, preferably something heavy, at him.
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@blakeyrat said:
PhDs are almost always hired to give an air of "intelligence" to the company. Invariably, they have the practical knowledge of a wet paper bag.
PhDs tend to be OK once you're not too close to their specialism and they've gained a year or two of non-study experience. They're intelligent and hard-working (or they won't finish their thesis). But if you're close to what they studied and wrote about intensively for (minimum) 3 years and they've not had a year or two to break them out of the way of thinking they got into, you'll get sucked into the morass that is what they studied. (They're encouraged to study stuff that isn't too mainstream as that means that it will be easier for them to do new, unique work; trying to do new science in a hot-topic area is hard because you're so likely to get gazumped by some other researcher.)New PhDs also seem to be not very good at time management. “Get this done by next week because there's other people depending on it” is a foreign concept to them.@blakeyrat said:
When pitching a product for JavaScript A/B testing to a group of PhDs once, one of them asked me: "what RNG do you use? The one built-in to JavaScript?" Weird question. I answered yes, and he replied, "oh well it's not very good at random selection, you should include a different RNG."
Yep, guess what he studied? >sigh< You know how to deal with that? Tell them that they've yet to establish that what they're proposing would make a measurable difference greater than experimental error. (Hey, you can say that almost anything subtle in user testing. Because people are assholes.)(I don't quite grok what the URL one was doing; “data in a URL” means too many possibilities to me. But I bet I can come up with dumber ways. With wooden tables, of course.)
FWIW, I'd hate to have a new owner of a PhD in chemistry in charge of some chemical engineering task either. I don't know what they'd screw up, but I'd like to be at least 10 miles upwind — and not downstream either — before finding out.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Oddly, this only seems to apply to people with PhDs in the field (CompSci, EE, etc.) I've known some physics and chemistry PhDs who were great at software development, probably because they learned absolutely nothing about it in school.
I've worked with all of those. CS PhDs tend to be OK once they've got experience at seeing the bigger picture. None are great when newly clutching their PhD. There's no guarantee at all that holders of a chemistry or physics PhD will be able to code though; some will, some won't. (If they're biologists, you have to be lucky to find one who's reasonable at coding.)Mathematicians are usually surprisingly bad at coding. They tend to be too sloppy, leaving out critical “obvious” steps that are required to turn a nice idea into something usable by anyone else.
The real exceptions to your rule tend to be those who were professional programmers before they went back to school to get their PhD. They tend to be really good as they've learned what common sense is and why you might want to use it from time to time.
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@dkf said:
There's no guarantee at all that holders of a chemistry or physics PhD will be able to code though; some will, some won't.
Yeah, but that's just the thing: I'm not hiring people who can't code or talk cogently about software engineering. If they have a chemistry or physics PhD, then they didn't learn programming as part of their coursework. The problem with PhDs in computer-y fields is they learned most of their coding in school, so they can probably bullshit their way through an interview. Then two months later they're like "To fix these bugs in the eCommerce platform, I had to write my own search engine. It's buggy right now, but I should have stemming done by next spring."
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@blakeyrat said:
@Nagesh said:
I've put the Javascript PRNG on all the major browsers through some pretty strenuous tests, and in all cases I got excellent results. The only gripe I have is that it lacks a seed mechanism to generate a reproducible sequence.Why do you think Phd is not good?
Experience. PhDs are almost always hired to give an air of "intelligence" to the company. Invariably, they have the practical knowledge of a wet paper bag.
When pitching a product for JavaScript A/B testing to a group of PhDs once, one of them asked me: "what RNG do you use? The one built-in to JavaScript?" Weird question. I answered yes, and he replied, "oh well it's not very good at random selection, you should include a different RNG." Whaaa...? Include a gigantic chunk of RNG code in a JavaScript so we could run slightly more balanced A/B tests? With sample sizes in the hundreds of thousands? I couldn't think of a dumb suggestion if I tried.
Another PhD once pitched passing data in a URL by taking a XML object, running EncodeURLComponent() on it, then putting it in a param. Whaaa...? I can't think of a dumber way of doing that.
Anyway, I admit maybe it's more my own personal dislike, but.
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@morbiuswilters said:
The problem with PhDs in computer-y fields is they learned most of their coding in school, so they can probably bullshit their way through an interview. Then two months later they're like "To fix these bugs in the eCommerce platform, I had to write my own search engine. It's buggy right now, but I should have stemming done by next spring."
I'm sorry you've never encountered any who were actually good. We've got several where I work, and they're a mixed bunch (well, they're all good since we're pretty choosy about who we hire). One of the best ones is better described as the Demon Tester, as he's got the ability to nit-pick his way through a complex GUI and find nearly everything that's wrong with it. Super-useful for delivering high-quality products, but occasionally rather frustrating.Only an incompetent writes their own search engine. There's some seriously good existing ones. (Or they could use Solr instead, which is… not exactly the poster-child for unstructured search.)
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@joe.edwards said:
The only gripe I have is that it lacks a seed mechanism to generate a reproducible sequence.
Why are you using a random number generator if you wanted a reproducible sequence? If you wanted that, you'd use a reproducible number sequence generator, not a random number generator.
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@dkf said:
One of the best ones is better described as the Demon Tester, as he's got the ability to nit-pick his way through a complex GUI and find nearly everything that's wrong with it. Super-useful for delivering high-quality products, but occasionally rather frustrating.
Well shucks, I ain't got no book-learnin' and I can do that.
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@blakeyrat said:
Well shucks, I ain't got no book-learnin' and I can do that.
It seems to depend on personality type more than anything else. You have to enjoy breaking other people's stuff (For Great Justice!) and pressing every button that can be pressed and jamming things in where they shouldn't go. I don't know if that's you, but that's certainly him.It is worrying when he uncovers a major bug in the base engine of the software half a day before before release. Still, better found by him than a real user.
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@dkf said:
@joe.edwards said:
The only gripe I have is that it lacks a seed mechanism to generate a reproducible sequence.
Why are you using a random number generator if you wanted a reproducible sequence? If you wanted that, you'd use a reproducible number sequence generator, not a random number generator.
Also known as a pseudorandom number generator. I'm too lazy to respond to your troll, read up.
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Damn, I'm disappointed this conversation went from talking about "meaningful work" to the pedantic definitions of various incarnations of number sequence generators. Generally I don't care about conversation drift, but this one just seems sad.
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@too_many_usernames said:
Generally I don't care about conversation drift, but this one just seems sad.
your mom is sad
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@too_many_usernames said:
It's just that I've always wondered about what's the point of the contortions that people go through for Monte Carlo simulation. They say they want random numbers, but they also say they want an even spread and for things to be totally reproducible too. Which is to say they don't want random; they just want a sampling function that is unlikely to be fazed by any inherent periodicity in the underlying data, and it's better to make those by applying a random perturbation sampling to some sort of simple parameter space sweep…Damn, I'm disappointed this conversation went from talking about "meaningful work" to the pedantic definitions of various incarnations of number sequence generators. Generally I don't care about conversation drift, but this one just seems sad.
It's more worrying when someone tries to publish a paper that says their MC method works with some random seeds and not others. Sometimes working with scientists is very frustrating.
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@dkf said:
It's just that I've always wondered about what's the point of the contortions that people go through for Monte Carlo simulation.
I think you mean Monte Hall, and in that case you need a properly distributed data set to prove the correct results of choosing to switch doors.
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@Lorne Kates said:
@dkf said:
It's just that I've always wondered about what's the point of the contortions that people go through for Monte Carlo simulation.
I think you mean Monte Hall, and in that case you need a properly distributed data set to prove the correct results of choosing to switch doors.
My favorite thing about TDWTF is that thread boundaries are nonexistent.
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@Ben L. said:
@Lorne Kates said:
@dkf said:
It's just that I've always wondered about what's the point of the contortions that people go through for Monte Carlo simulation.
I think you mean Monte Hall, and in that case you need a properly distributed data set to prove the correct results of choosing to switch doors.
My favorite thing about TDWTF is that thread boundaries are nonexistent.
It's like having an alcoholic uncle.
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@Ben L. said:
@morbiuswilters said:
My favorite thing about TDWTF is that thread boundaries are nonexistent.
It's like having an alcoholic uncle.
It's like being your own drunk uncle.
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@Lorne Kates said:
@Ben L. said:
@morbiuswilters said:
My favorite thing about TDWTF is that thread boundaries are nonexistent.
It's like having an alcoholic uncle.
It's like being your own drunk uncle.
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Late to the party but I'll take a moment out of my weekend drinking to comment on Morb's original topic and make too_many_usernames feel better. It took me longer to reach that angsty what-am-i-doing-here point because I was comfily tucked into legacy programming for a couple decades, but a few years ago I bailed out and joined the dark side (business analyst). I found my passion elsewhere, so my career is now just a means and no longer the end for me. My passion is in animal rescue, to the point where it's an unpaid part time job for me, but it gives me fulfillment and a new identity. A better one, too. So few of us will ever go down in history like Linus Torvald, so making my mark on the world will happen by saving lives not bytes.
A friend of mine surprised me by getting fed up with the industry a decade sooner than I did, quit and is now going to Veterinary school. I admire and envy him because I wish I'd thought of it first. My first career idea was to be a vet but I got a CS degree instead. Talk about irony. Anyway, my point is that there is a rich and fulfilling life outside of IT.
And addressing Morb's idea of being a rancher: there is a place for small farms with the whole locavore thing. Read up on a place called Polyface Farms in Virginia for an inspiring example of the extreme of excellence that can be achieved. That dude is not just running a farm, he's running a farm that is self-sustaining and using biological food chains the way they should be used. He rotates his species from pasture to pasture - after the cattle have eaten a healthy percentage of the grass and left their cowpies, he moves them to a new pasture. The old pasture is left fallow for a week or so while the bugs and flies go to town on the cowpies, then he moves the chickens in to eat all the bugs and flies. He slaughters when it's time, with his own hands, giving them quick and clean endings. He has no need for antibiotics or to fatten his cattle on corn, because they are healthy to begin with. He's got a fan base. If he was anywhere near me, I would totally buy my meat from him.
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@jetcitywoman said:
Polyface
Polyface does some interesting things, but it warrants mentioning that it's not self-sustaining. They bring in a considerable amount of feed - primarily for the chickens, though I believe the pigs also receive feed in their diet. In Polyface's defense, I don't think they market themselves as sustainable.
Amore salient question, though, is this: Omnivore's Dilemma came out eight years ago, touting the methods of Polyface; so where are the copycats? Why aren't there dozens of Polyfaces yet? Are there papers examining the science behind Polyface? I've seen stuff on pasture cropping, for example, and I've read od many farms that do it. So what's the catch with Polyface? Surely other farmers want to be able to sell pork tenderloin for fifteen dollars per pound?
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@jetcitywoman said:
He has no need for antibiotics or to fatten his cattle on corn, because they are healthy to begin with.
No drugs? No corn? That's Unamerican!He'd do OK in Europe though.
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@jetcitywoman said:
My passion is in animal rescue, to the point where it's an unpaid part time job for me, but it gives me fulfillment and a new identity.
Good!
@jetcitywoman said:
So few of us will ever go down in history like Linus Torvald...
Thank God..
@jetcitywoman said:
My first career idea was to be a vet but I got a CS degree instead.
My little sis is a few days from graduating from vet school.
@jetcitywoman said:
And addressing Morb's idea of being a rancher: there is a place for small farms with the whole locavore thing. Read up on a place called Polyface Farms in Virginia for an inspiring example of the extreme of excellence that can be achieved. That dude is not just running a farm, he's running a farm that is self-sustaining and using biological food chains the way they should be used. He rotates his species from pasture to pasture - after the cattle have eaten a healthy percentage of the grass and left their cowpies, he moves them to a new pasture. The old pasture is left fallow for a week or so while the bugs and flies go to town on the cowpies, then he moves the chickens in to eat all the bugs and flies. He slaughters when it's time, with his own hands, giving them quick and clean endings. He has no need for antibiotics or to fatten his cattle on corn, because they are healthy to begin with.
That's pretty much how we raised our cows, except without moving chickens in to eat the bugs--there are plenty of birds to do that for you. We didn't slaughter our own cows (I don't even think it was legal to do so, we had to use a slaughterhouse, but it was a slaughterhouse my family had been using for decades..)
You still do sometimes need antibiotics. Not as many as when the cows are crammed in side-by-side, but trying to farm without antibiotics isn't really all that fun. Also, we did use corn sometimes, during the winter. Their winter diet was mostly hay we made ourselves, but there's nothing wrong with giving them corn. They can't eat grass in the winter, unless you live somewhere it never frosts.
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@bstorer said:
fifteen dollars per pound?
Goddamn, my family got fucked. We just lived through the decades of crippling small farm depression where things were slowly sold off until the bank foreclosed.
The only reason we even kept farming (or were able to) was because a dying family farm is like music to the Federal Government's ears. It was like the Solyndra of the 70s, 80s and 90s.
We'd get money all the time for no reason ("We got a check from the government for $2000 if we don't sell any cows this spring." "We don't have any cows to sell this spring." "Well, now we can afford to pay off the credit card and get the septic tank pumped so the boys won't have to go outside to pee, in the middle of the night, in the dead of winter..") And income taxes? Dude, the tax credits are awesome.
Of course, my family didn't have the savvy to market to rich yuppies. Our beef was organic (well, as organic as any of that shit is), grass-fed and constantly enduring somewhat amusing/lethal injuries due to the bull trying to fuck them on the edge of a cliff. Unfortunately, I think we mostly sold it for under a buck a pound, which is a shame.
Oh, and what the hell is with this "sustainable" bullshit? You know what's sustainable? Pesticides. You know what's fucking not? Organic farming.
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@dkf said:
@jetcitywoman said:
He has no need for antibiotics or to fatten his cattle on corn, because they are healthy to begin with.
No drugs? No corn? That's Unamerican!He'd do OK in Europe though.
It's so funny to listen to stupid people talk about stuff they don't understand.
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@morbiuswilters said:
It's so funny to listen to stupid people talk about stuff they don't understand.
You keep on telling yourself that.
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@dkf said:
@morbiuswilters said:
It's so funny to listen to stupid people talk about stuff they don't understand.
You keep on telling yourself that.Well, not "ha ha" funny, more "Oh God, why am I trapped on this planet with these fucking idiots? Please let there be a superbug that kills them all."
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@morbiuswilters said:
@bstorer said:
@morbiuswilters said:fifteen dollars per pound?
Goddamn, my family got fucked.
Of course, my family didn't have the savvy to market to rich yuppies.
I suspect there simply wasn't a critical mass of hipster foodies back then or there. The Polyface guys are close enough to be able to sell to Northern Virginia where, thanks to your tax dollars, there are lots of people with more money than sense.
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@morbiuswilters said:
We'd get money all the time for no reason ("We got a check from the government for $2000 if we don't sell any cows this spring." "We don't have any cows to sell this spring." "Well, now we can afford to pay off the credit card and get the septic tank pumped so the boys won't have to go outside to pee, in the middle of the night, in the dead of winter..") And income taxes? Dude, the tax credits are awesome.
To this day, my brother-in-law's family keeps cows for the sole purpose of being paid by the government not to sell them.
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@bstorer said:
@morbiuswilters said:
We'd get money all the time for no reason ("We got a check from the government for $2000 if we don't sell any cows this spring." "We don't have any cows to sell this spring." "Well, now we can afford to pay off the credit card and get the septic tank pumped so the boys won't have to go outside to pee, in the middle of the night, in the dead of winter..") And income taxes? Dude, the tax credits are awesome.
To this day, my brother-in-law's family keeps cows for the sole purpose of being paid by the government not to sell them.Yeah, it's awesome. I mean, it's stupid, but it's awesome.
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@bstorer said:
To this day, my brother-in-law's family keeps cows for the sole purpose of being paid by the government not to sell them.
..h..how
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@dhromed said:
@bstorer said:
To this day, my brother-in-law's family keeps cows for the sole purpose of being paid by the government not to sell them.
..h..how
Because the US Government pays people not to sell cattle or not to farm land in order to keep food prices high. Then they spend billions a month giving people food stamps so they can "afford" food. (Most of these people just use the food stamps to buy junk food, booze, cigs, lap dances, etc. The vast majority could afford food if they learned how to cook and bought cheap foods like rice, beans and veggies. But food stamps give them a way to buy premium foods--I've known several people who use it to buy lobster, "kobe" beef, all sorts of hyper-expensive "organic" crap, or what-have-you. That or cigs, booze and lap dances..)
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@morbiuswilters said:
@dhromed said:
They should optimise and just borrow the cows for when you've got someone in to inspect how many cows they've got. Like that they won't need to spend so much on feed…@bstorer said:
Because the US Government pays people not to sell cattle or not to farm land in order to keep food prices high.To this day, my brother-in-law's family keeps cows for the sole purpose of being paid by the government not to sell them.
..h..how
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@dkf said:
They should optimise and just borrow the cows for when you've got someone in to inspect how many cows they've got.
I don't think anyone ever inspected our cows. But it's been over a decade since I had cows, so maybe the Obamacare mandates it or something.
@dkf said:
Like that they won't need to spend so much on feed…
Was that supposed to be a sentence?
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@morbiuswilters said:
At least TN has the entire base of Morbs' Hierarchy of Needs: cheap liquor, lots of guns and illiterate women with poor impulse control.
Texas also has all 3 of those things.
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@morbiuswilters said:
In my searching, I found a Go job. I almost applied.
Seek professional help.
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@morbiuswilters said:
But it's been over a decade since I had cows, so maybe the Obamacare mandates it or something.
I know you're smart enough to know there's no correlation between the Affordable Care Act and cattle ranching. So the joke here is that right-wingers just sling feces from the same small bucket of talking points over and over regardless of relevance? And, if so, why are you mocking a group to which you yourself belong?
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@joe.edwards said:
I know you're smart enough to know there's no correlation between the Affordable Care Act and cattle ranching.
I suspect (but don't know) that you know that someone could find a correlation between Obamacare and cattle ranching. I was going to make a joke about whether or not you'd read it, but I'm pretty sure you didn't, since I found an explicit mention of ranching, not a correlation:
@ACA said:(B) TYPES.—øAs amended by section 10104(h)¿ Enti-
ties described in subparagraph (A) may include trade, in-
dustry, and professional associations, commercial fishing
industry organizations, ranching and farming organiza-
tions, community and consumer-focused nonprofit groups,
chambers of commerce, unions, resource partners of the
Small Business Administration, other licensed insurance
agents and brokers, and other entities that—@joe.edwards said:
So the joke here is that right-wingers just sling feces from the same small bucket of talking points over and over regardless of relevance?
TRWTF is that anyone still offers even such weak defense of the law as this.
@joe.edwards said:
And, if so, why are you mocking a group to which you yourself belong?
Those are the best groups to mock.
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@boomzilla said:
I was going to make a joke about whether or not you'd read it, but I'm pretty sure you didn't
Yup, I just love reading 1,000 page legal documents every night, right before bed.
@boomzilla said:@ACA said:
Let's add some context. So, this paragraph is defining a term used in subparagraph (A). So, let's look at subparagraph (A). @Subparagraph (a) said:
(B) TYPES.—øAs amended by section 10104(h)¿ Enti-
ties described in subparagraph (A) may include trade, in-
dustry, and professional associations, commercial fishing
industry organizations, ranching and farming organiza-
tions, community and consumer-focused nonprofit groups,
chambers of commerce, unions, resource partners of the
Small Business Administration, other licensed insurance
agents and brokers, and other entities that—
@Paragraph (1) said:(A) IN GENERAL.—To be eligible to receive a grant under paragraph (1), an entity shall demonstrate to the Exchange involved that the entity has existing relationships, or could readily establish relationships, with employers and employees, consumers (including uninsured and underinsured consumers), or self-employed individuals likely to be qualified to enroll in a qualified health plan.
@Paragraph (3) said:(1) IN GENERAL.—An Exchange shall establish a program under which it awards grants to entities described in paragraph (2) to carry out the duties described in paragraph (3).
Oh, so it has nothing to do with paying ranchers to not sell cattle, but rather (predictably) has to do with their healthcare duties? It's almost as if you pulled up the text, typed "ranch" in the search box, and blindly pasted the first thing you saw that regarded ranchers. Of course you wouldn't do that. You've read and committed to memory all 955 pages.(3) DUTIES.—An entity that serves as a navigator under a grant under this subsection shall— (A) conduct public education activities to raise awareness of the availability of qualified health plans; (B) distribute fair and impartial information concerning enrollment in qualified health plans, and the availability of premium tax credits under section 36B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and cost-sharing reductions under section 1402; (C) facilitate enrollment in qualified health plans; (D) provide referrals to any applicable office of health insurance consumer assistance or health insurance ombudsman established under section 2793 of the Public Health Service Act, or any other appropriate State agency or agencies, for any enrollee with a grievance, complaint, or question regarding their health plan, coverage, or a determination under such plan or coverage; and (E) provide information in a manner that is culturally and linguistically appropriate to the needs of the population being served by the Exchange or Exchanges.
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@joe.edwards said:
Oh, so it has nothing to do with paying ranchers to not sell cattle, but rather (predictably) has to do with their healthcare duties?
Well, you didn't ask for that. In any case, this is just the statute. I understand that there's a lot more once you start looking at the regulations.
@joe.edwards said:
It's almost as if you pulled up the text, typed "ranch" in the search box, and blindly pasted the first thing you saw that regarded ranchers. Of course you wouldn't do that. You've read and committed to memory all 955 pages.
I read more of it than did most of the people who voted for it. But that's actually not terribly important, since we've learned that the Executive doesn't really need to worry about what the statue says, so long as his pen and phone still work.
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@PedanticCurmudgeon said:
@morbiuswilters said:
At least TN has the entire base of Morbs' Hierarchy of Needs: cheap liquor, lots of guns and illiterate women with poor impulse control.
Texas also has all 3 of those things.True, but Texas is also hot.
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@joe.edwards said:
I know you're smart enough to know there's no correlation between the Affordable Care Act and cattle ranching.
Prove it.
@joe.edwards said:
So the joke here is that right-wingers just sling feces from the same small bucket of talking points over and over regardless of relevance?
It was more a mockery of an overly-broad, fascistic law.
@joe.edwards said:
And, if so, why are you mocking a group to which you yourself belong?
I do that all the time. Only a humorless left-wing cunt takes everything SUPER SRSLY YOU GUYS.
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@boomzilla said:
I object: that photo is wildly inaccurate!
Our fuhrer of health has unconstitutionally delayed the law a few more times since then.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@boomzilla said:
I object: that photo is wildly inaccurate!
Our fuhrer of health has unconstitutionally delayed the law a few more times since then.
I'm sorry? Why would Barack Obama delay Obamacare? It has Obama right in the name!
Oh, right, you were referring to the republican party.
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@Ben L. said:
I'm sorry? Why would Barack Obama delay Obamacare? It has Obama right in the name!
Oh, right, you were referring to the republican party.
What in the fuck are you talking about? Jesus, Ben, how much of an aspie retard are you?
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@Ben L. said:
I'm sorry? Why would Barack Obama delay Obamacare?
I thought it was pretty obvious. He's been slowly coming to realize that the Republicans were often correct about it, and he's trying to push consequences off as far as he can. The funny bit is how politically dense he was about it. He could have compromised back in October to get some of the delays he unconstitutionally made and could have gotten people to believe the Republicans were the problem. That probably would have saved the Senate for the Democrats. The real question is whether he was just too focused on the short term message of the shut down or really didn't have an inkling about how terribly the roll out of his signature "accomplishment" was going.
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@boomzilla said:
The funny bit is how politically dense he was about it.
And transparent. "Um.. um.. let's delay it until the day after I leave office.. yes, that's the ticket.. nervously taps finger tips together"
But that's what all Great Presidents do. Remember when Thomas Jefferson delayed the Louisiana Purchase until after he was out of office?
And who can forget the New Deal, which didn't go into effect until after Walt Disney's makeup artists were no longer able to make FDR's long-decayed remains look convincingly human?
I gotta say, the way Obama's approaching the implementation of his law reminds me of when I am struck by the need to take a really catastrophic dump at somebody's fancy dinner party: you try time it so you're in the car and rapidly accelerating away before your hapless hosts inadvertently walk into the solid wall of olfactory-singing ass-stench you've left in their guest bathroom.
"Dear God, I don't want to live like this! It's like our house is inside a truck stop Arby's!!"
