[post-title-7]



  • Went a Googlin' today, wondering what the going rates are for quoteunquote Wordpress developers unquotequote.  This is the top hit I came across.  I am not filled with confidence at their Wordpress developing abilities.




  • @Lorne Kates said:

    Went a Googlin' today, wondering what the going rates are for quoteunquote Wordpress developers unquotequote.  This is the top hit I came across.  I am not filled with confidence at their Wordpress developing abilities.


    If they're using Wordpress, I'd be hesitant about their abilities to finish... anything really.

    Drupal as well. Joomla I can't speak as to how good it is (for lack of trying to understand it).

    None of those are really well designed to accomplish any real website (other than blogs). People have just hamfisted everything together to make it work.





  • @Ben L. said:

    a program not working for 1/3 of its users.
    21% of support threads have been "solved"!



  •  TRWTF are wordpress developers in general. I would not even consider them programmers when their most intimate experience with code is copying and pasting from stackoverflow and crossing their fingers.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    21% of support threads have been "solved"!

    Given the number of posts on the WordPress forums, that's probably above average for a plugin. A question is only listed as "resolved" if the OP takes the time to do so, which people generally don't.



  • @Ben L. said:

    TRWTF is naming a product with a version number in the title and then never having that version of the product
     

    Holy shit!  I thought "contact-form-7" was something that would be parsed out to "Insert object of type contact form with form_id 7", and that the admin of the site just fucked up the square bracket syntax or something (hence seeing the tag rather than the form).

    But-- that's the actual fucking NAME of a product-- and it doesn't work-- and the site's admin is too fucking useless to spot and fix it. That's a whole new layer of WTF that I was not expecting. Good find, Ben.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Lorne Kates said:

    But-- that's the actual fucking NAME of a product
    Wait… what?? <searches, finds site> That's strange indeed.@Lorne Kates said:
    That's a whole new layer of WTF that I was not expecting. Good find, Ben.
    Yep.



  • @gu3st said:

    @Lorne Kates said:

    Went a Googlin' today, wondering what the going rates are for quoteunquote Wordpress developers unquotequote.  This is the top hit I came across.  I am not filled with confidence at their Wordpress developing abilities.


    If they're using Wordpress, I'd be hesitant about their abilities to finish... anything really.

    Drupal as well. Joomla I can't speak as to how good it is (for lack of trying to understand it).

    None of those are really well designed to accomplish any real website (other than blogs). People have just hamfisted everything together to make it work.

    Joomla is horrible. It has become less horrible over the last few years but it's still pretty awful. It is leaps and bounds better at all things than Wordpress, though. With both platforms the problem is rarely the CMS itself, it's the inept 3rd party extension developers who try to roll their own everything for no reason other than to flex their programming skills.

    All PHP-based CMS' are designed to be really good for end users who don't know any kind of code.



  •  So, what IS the going rate for WordPress developers?



  • $20, same as in town.



  • @gu3st said:

    @Lorne Kates said:

    Went a Googlin'
    today, wondering what the going rates are for quoteunquote Wordpress
    developers unquotequote.  This is the top hit I came across.  I am not
    filled with confidence at their Wordpress developing abilities.


    If
    they're using Wordpress, I'd be hesitant about their abilities to
    finish... anything really.

    Drupal as well. Joomla I can't speak as to how good it is (for lack of
    trying to understand it).

    None of those are really well designed to accomplish any real website
    (other than blogs). People have just hamfisted everything together to
    make it work.

     


     

     Can't speak for Joomla but you clearly had a bad run in with a shitty Drupal developer. If the dev knows what they're doing then Drupal can run circles around any other CMS out there. And it's definitely not 'just for blogs'.



  • @captainpants said:

    @gu3st said:

    @Lorne Kates said:

    Went a Googlin'
    today, wondering what the going rates are for quoteunquote Wordpress
    developers unquotequote.  This is the top hit I came across.  I am not
    filled with confidence at their Wordpress developing abilities.


    If
    they're using Wordpress, I'd be hesitant about their abilities to
    finish... anything really.

    Drupal as well. Joomla I can't speak as to how good it is (for lack of
    trying to understand it).

    None of those are really well designed to accomplish any real website
    (other than blogs). People have just hamfisted everything together to
    make it work.

     


     

     Can't speak for Joomla but you clearly had a bad run in with a shitty Drupal developer. If the dev knows what they're doing then Drupal can run circles around any other CMS out there. And it's definitely not 'just for blogs'.

    I've seen some terrible software built in Drupal and had to deal with taking that content to our own stuff.

    Maybe done by someone a bit better it might be less crazy, but from what I've seen, Drupal really doesn't encourage you to do things in a correct manner by making the worst way possible the easiest way.



  • @Ben L. said:

    TRWTF is naming a product with a version number in the title and then never having that version of the product

    If I counted correctly... at the time of introduction there were 6 different "Contact Form" plug-ins posted on the WordPress site.... so (AIAC) it is not a version number at all.... 



  • @gu3st said:

    Maybe done by someone a bit better it might be less crazy, but from what I've seen, Drupal really doesn't encourage you to do things in a correct manner by making the worst way possible the easiest way.

    I don't understand Drupal's success at all. It's far too heavyweight for a personal website, but it seems to be actively designed not to work well with change control and dev/staging/live deployment, which makes it unsuitable for professional use.



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    Holy shit!  I thought "contact-form-7" was something that would be parsed out to "Insert object of type contact form with form_id 7", and that the admin of the site just fucked up the square bracket syntax or something (hence seeing the tag rather than the form).

    But-- that's the actual fucking NAME of a product

    Sort of like Motel 6 or Formula 409.

     



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    But-- that's the actual fucking NAME of a product
    Upcoming horror movie: Contact from Lifeform 7even


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @pjt33 said:

    I don't understand Drupal's success at all. It's far too heavyweight for a personal website, but it seems to be actively designed not to work well with change control and dev/staging/live deployment, which makes it unsuitable for professional use.
    What part of "web developer using a PHP CMS" led you to infer "professional"?



  • @Weng said:

    @pjt33 said:

    I don't understand Drupal's success at all. It's far too heavyweight for a personal website, but it seems to be actively designed not to work well with change control and dev/staging/live deployment, which makes it unsuitable for professional use.
    What part of "web developer using a PHP CMS" led you to infer "professional"?

     

     

    I will admit that pushing configuration changes upstream to dev/test/live is a huge pain in the ass but Drupal's upcoming major release is going to rectify that... however I'm not sure how well.

    And I bet that you think that  www.princeofwales.gov.uk or eurocentres.com are 'unprofessional'...Give me a break. Drupal can run circles around any asp.net or java based CMS.

     



  • @captainpants said:

    I will admit that pushing configuration changes upstream to dev/test/live is a huge pain in the ass but Drupal's upcoming major release is going to rectify that... however I'm not sure how well.

    And I bet that you think that  www.princeofwales.gov.uk or eurocentres.com are 'unprofessional'...Give me a break. Drupal can run circles around any asp.net or java based CMS.  

    I was in agreement with you until the last sentance.....There are definately CMS systems written in either ASP.Net or Java that can do many things that Drupal is poorly suited for. Absolute statements such as yours are almost invariably wrong, and TRWTF in alot of cases.

     



  • Hi Lorne -

    Thanks for catching that little error. I am the owner of Sumy Designs, LLC and we recently ran into problems with our contact form plugin (Contact Form 7) not functioning properly. I upgraded the forms on my site to the more feature rich Gravity Forms, and thought I had caught all instances of the old forms when I completed it, but clearly, I missed one.

    While I am happy that I was alerted to this issue so I could fix it, please remember that I am a real person with real feelings, and that public shaming me over a minor error perhaps isn't the most production option. Linking to my site ensures that I am going to see this post, so I'm not sure what you had hoped my response would be, but here it is.

    I have over 120 active sites in my portfolio, so if you have doubts about my ability to complete a project, then I would start there. Also, more than 50 clients have voluntarily left glowing testimonials about my work on my website.

    I'm not someone who won't own a mistake, and I made one on that page on my site. It wasn't my first, and it won't be my last. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I did fix it, so feel free to visit that page and see how it is supposed to function now.

    Sincerely,

    Amy Masson, owner
    Sumy Designs, LLC


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    Absolute statements such as yours are almost invariably wrong
    You can boil that down to a deeper truth:

    Absolute Statements Are Always Wrong.



  • @dkf said:

    @TheCPUWizard said:
    Absolute statements such as yours are almost invariably wrong
    You can boil that down to a deeper truth:

    Absolute Statements Are Always Wrong.

     

    Except that if that statement is true, then it is false; but if it is false, then there must be one absolute statement that is correct. Hence the phrasing of my post.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    @dkf said:

    @TheCPUWizard said:
    Absolute statements such as yours are almost invariably wrong
    You can boil that down to a deeper truth:

    Absolute Statements Are Always Wrong.

     

    Except that if that statement is true, then it is false; but if it is false, then there must be one absolute statement that is correct. Hence the phrasing of my post.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    Thanks for catching that little error.
     

    Oh, right, the OP. Yeah, we've moved on to mocking contact-form-7. (Or as we refer to it in these parts, "TRWTF")

    @sumydesigns said:

    but clearly, I missed one.

    Clearly. It was the one on your "rates" page. Where you tell people how much to pay you to make Wordpress sites.

    @sumydesigns said:

    While I am happy that I was alerted to this issue so I could fix it, please remember that I am a real person with real feelings, and that public shaming me over a minor error perhaps isn't the most production option.

    Publicly shaming me over publicly shaming you isn't productive, either. Finding things to post on a humor forum, however, is productive.  Because-- umm-- okay, no, it's actually a timesink for every one involved in any capacity. But it is on task.

    @sumydesigns said:

    Linking to my site ensures that I am going to see this post, so I'm not sure what you had hoped my response would be, but here it is.

    You'd be surprised about that "ensured" thing. No one from Community Server's come around yet. Or Mozilla. Or Microsoft. We did have someone who was having a love affair with Lotus Notes though. Not sure what happened to him. I think he ended up winning an Oscar for "Her".

    @sumydesigns said:

    I have over 120 active sites in my portfolio, so if you have doubts about my ability to complete a project, then I would start there.

    Well, you see-- I started by typing "Wordpress developer rates" into Google. And your site came up first. With the screenshot in the OP. So, again, you see-- that's kinda what a potential client is going to do to. And see also. And-- again, follow me on this one-- did see for however long that was up.  Which was, if my math is correct-- at least nine days (OP on the 15th, today is the 24th).  It could be longer, I can't tell because Wayback doesn't have snapshots of your site past 2013.

    So you DO see how that would lead one into doubt, right? Yes?

    @sumydesigns said:

    I'm not someone who won't own a mistake, and I made one on that page on my site. It wasn't my first, and it won't be my last. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I did fix it, so feel free to visit that page and see how it is supposed to function now.

    Yes, that is indeed working now. (For now? The Aristocrats Wordpress).  So the score as of now is:

    - minus points for using your chosen tool to put up a broken "pay me" page
    + points for knowing how to read a traffic log
    + points for being able to format your post correctly on Community Server on your first try

    Congratulations, Amy, you're ahead of the game.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    I did fix it, so feel free to visit that page and see how it is supposed to function now.

    How much for the logo desig? I'll take 10, and side of copywriting.

    And a sprinkle of spellcheck.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    I upgraded the forms on my site to the more feature rich Gravity Forms, and thought I had caught all instances of the old forms when I completed it, but clearly, I missed one.

    @Your About Page said:

    Amy is our resident code monkey and technical expert. HTML, CSS, CMS, PHP and more, she is fluent in many Internet languages.

    Hi Amy,

    I, for one, always appreciate people owning their mistakes. However, I have a few remarks here. You're posting on a forum where literally everyone who posts is a software developer of some sort. It's safe to say that at least 95% of us are familiar with web development, which of course comprises a large portion of software development work these days. I'd say many of us are fluent in at least a few of those Internet languages.

    Owning up to a mistake is awesome and I think more people should be doing that, and I'd like to thank you for that. However, telling us you build web sites for a living, and you tried to find all instances of a given plugin in your site, but somehow missed one, is not making you look that much more rock solid as a technical expert right now.



  • @toon said:

    ...not making you look that much more rock solid as a technical expert right now

    Not to mention the fact that you lump in "CMS" like it's a programming/markup language of some sort, and you switched to a "more feature rich" form system that in this day and age still doesn't have client-side validation.

    The original WTF was really not all that embarrassing, but by voluntarily joining this forum and posting in Side Bar WTF you have become eligible for the same beating as the rest of us, and the more you talk about and link to your website the higher this page will get in Google searches for "Sumy Designs".



  • I refuse to participate in a flame war on this forum. There will always be someone better, someone more experienced, and someone who thinks I don't know anything. And that's okay. I'm good at what I do, and the fact that my site is coming up #1 in searches proves that I'm doing something right. So maybe I'm not as good as you, or you, or I don't know as much as that guy. That's okay because my clients are not developers and programmers, they are regular people who need the services that I provide and are quite happy that I am there to do it for them.

    I am going to leave you with this final note - a link to a video of the keynote speech by Chris Lema (who is all kinds of awesome) at a conference I attended last year where he addresses this need for developers/programmers to attack each other. I really encourage you to watch it - he's a very engaging speaker and the message is one that is relevant for anyone who works in technology.

    http://wordpress.tv/2014/03/17/chris-lema-wordcamp-las-vegas-2013-opening-keynote/

    Clearly I should not have come here to address my error, but as with anything, it's a lesson I've learned and will take with me for the future. With that, I will bid you all farewell and sincerely wish you all good luck in your endeavors.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    I refuse to participate in a flame war on this forum.

    You're missing the point of the forum, then.

    @sumydesigns said:

    Clearly I should not have come here to address my error, but as with anything, it's a lesson I've learned and will take with me for the future.

    This particular forum isn't really a constructive sort of place.


  • :belt_onion:

    @boomzilla said:

    this post is bossy

    I literally, by complete accident, stumbled upon the idiocy that you're referencing with that right now.

    Now I kinda want to make it a link and see if we can get any trackbacks from that too.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    I refuse to participate in a flame war on this forum.
     

    A few thoughts.

    1) You started it.

    2) If this is what you think a flamewar is, you have a very low autoignition point.

    3) I will give you this, you are very diplomatic.

    @sumydesigns said:

    http://wordpress.tv/2014/03/17/chris-lema-wordcamp-las-vegas-2013-opening-keynote/

    Will watch.

     



  • @jmap said:

    How much for the logo desig? I'll take 10, and side of copywriting.

    And a sprinkle of spellcheck.

     

    Why are you asking her here? There is a (now) perfectly functional (presumably) "get a quote" form.  There is even a "Where did you hear about us" freetext.

     



  • @Onyx said:

    @boomzilla said:
    this post is bossy

    I literally, by complete accident, stumbled upon the idiocy that you're referencing with that right now.

    Now I kinda want to make it a link and see if we can get any trackbacks from that too.

    Oh do tell.


  •  @mikeTheLiar said:

    @Onyx said:
    @boomzilla said:
    this post is bossy

    I literally, by complete accident, stumbled upon the idiocy that you're referencing with that right now.

    Now I kinda want to make it a link and see if we can get any trackbacks from that too.

    Oh do tell.

     

    Specifically, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dynbzMlCcw

     

     

    Also, you guys are definitely giving the owner of that site a hard time. 



  • @Sutherlands said:

    Also, you guys are definitely giving the owner of that site a hard time. 

    To be fair, that's kinda this place's MO. Remember, this is the site that coined the phrase TDEMSYR.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @mikeTheLiar said:

    @Sutherlands said:
    Also, you guys are definitely giving the owner of that site a hard time. 

    To be fair, that's kinda this place's MO. Remember, this is the site that coined the phrase TDEMSYR.

    Filed under: wretched hive of scum and villainy

    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.



  •  @joe.edwards said:

    @mikeTheLiar said:
    @Sutherlands said:
    Also, you guys are definitely giving the owner of that site a hard time. 

    To be fair, that's kinda this place's MO. Remember, this is the site that coined the phrase TDEMSYR.

    Filed under: wretched hive of scum and villainy

     

    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.

     

    Sure, but 4chan isn't much of a yardstick.  It's fun to rib each other, but when someone from outside the site comes and says they made a mistake, no reason to flame them.  And she definitely didn't start it.


  • @Sutherlands said:

    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.

    I visit 4chan fairly rarely these days. Frankly, it got boring after a while. Sometimes /x/ is worth checking out. /wg/ is also worth dropping in on once in a while. /b/ is worse than Facebook these days.

    @Sutherlands said:
    It's fun to rib each other, but when someone from outside the site comes and says they made a mistake, no reason to flame them. 

    There's the rub. Remember when that TWL guy showed up? Granted he was a bit of a TWL himself, but he got no quarter and no mercy either. Note: I'm not condoning or defending this behaviour - I try to be as reasonable as possible (worst of the worst notwithstanding). But that seems to be the way it goes around here.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    It's fun to rib each other, but when someone from outside the site comes and says they made a mistake, no reason to flame them.  And she definitely didn't start it.

    No one's really flaming her. And Lorne was very tame by our standards, let alone whatever 4chan does.



  •  @mikeTheLiar said:

    @Sutherlands said:
    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.
    LIAR! LIAR!



  • @Sutherlands said:

     @mikeTheLiar said:

    @Sutherlands said:
    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.
    LIAR! LIAR!


    Did you mean to quote more of that post? I are confused.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    @mikeTheLiar said:
    @Sutherlands said:
    Also, you guys are definitely giving the owner of that site a hard time. 

    To be fair, that's kinda this place's MO. Remember, this is the site that coined the phrase TDEMSYR.

    Filed under: wretched hive of scum and villainy

    I'd say we're fairly tame compared to, say, 4chan.

    Filed under: Code or GTFO
    Actually, that was explained to me recently. (as well as "there are no girls on the internet".)

    It has roughly the same meaning as "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog". It's 4chan's way of saying that your gender shouldn't matter, and by announcing yours, you're making a fool of yourself. It's just that females tend to be the majority of those who announce their gender on 4chan, possibly because 4chan is stereotypically male.



  • @sumydesigns said:

    the keynote speech by Chris Lema (who is all kinds of awesome) at a conference I attended last year where he addresses this need for developers/programmers to attack each other. I really encourage you to watch it - he's a very engaging speaker
    Being an engaging speaker doesn't make you right.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Ben L. said:

    "there are no girls on the internet"

    I always saw this as a cautionary note for would-be white knights. On EverQuest [the original] I had a much easier life as an attractive female character than as any male character, because for some strange reason everyone was much more generous and accommodating. I'm sure there are no real-world parallels.



  • @sumydesigns said:


    I am going to leave you with this final note - a link to a video of the keynote speech by Chris Lema (who is all kinds of awesome) at a conference I attended last year where he addresses this need for developers/programmers to attack each other. I really encourage you to watch it - he's a very engaging speaker and the message is one that is relevant for anyone who works in technology.

    The "attack people" is really human nature. Of course, the speech talked about people doing that in inappropriate ways and places (mainly as a pep talk to beta wordpress monkeys). To come to a place devoted to the purpose of pointing out stupid things and scold the people who point out stupid things is stupid. Probably bossy, too.

    The smart / work hard story was interesting, though.



  • @Ben L. said:

    Actually, that was explained to me recently. (as well as "there are no girls on the internet".)

    It has roughly the same meaning as "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog". It's 4chan's way of saying that your gender shouldn't matter, and by announcing yours, you're making a fool of yourself. It's just that females tend to be the majority of those who announce their gender on 4chan, possibly because 4chan is stereotypically male.

     

    Oh, for fuck's sake, no. That is a horrible 'explaination'. Or, I should say, that's a horrific reason. "If you self-identify as a particular non-majority group, you deserve to be mocked for being part of that group, you idiot."  Jesus fucking Tiān Gōng!  I mean I know we're talking about /b/ here, but for fuck's sake!

     



  • @boomzilla said:

    (mainly as a pep talk to beta wordpress monkeys)

    Cool story bro.



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    @Ben L. said:


    Actually, that was explained to me recently. (as well as "there are no girls on the internet".)

    It has roughly the same meaning as "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog". It's 4chan's way of saying that your gender shouldn't matter, and by announcing yours, you're making a fool of yourself. It's just that females tend to be the majority of those who announce their gender on 4chan, possibly because 4chan is stereotypically male.

    Oh, for fuck's sake, no. That is a horrible 'explaination'. Or, I should say, that's a horrific reason. "If you self-identify as a particular non-majority group, you deserve to be mocked for being part of that group, you idiot."  Jesus fucking Tiān Gōng!  I mean I know we're talking about /b/ here, but for fuck's sake!

    The Internet: where men are men, and 14 year old girls are FBI agents.

    Seriously, in the beginning, there were only techies and people looking for porn on the internet. Right or wrong, this population is overwhelmingly male. We've added people looking for Grumpy Cat, and that's where most of the chicks are.



  • @boomzilla said:

    The Internet: where men are men, and 14 year old girls are FBI agents.

    Seriously, in the beginning, there were only techies and people looking for porn on the internet. Right or wrong, this population is overwhelmingly male. We've added people looking for Grumpy Cat, and that's where most of the chicks are.

    Don't you watch the news? Only teenagers use the internet, and then only to bully other teenagers on the faceboooks and talk to sexual predators/teachers in Florida on teh googles.


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