C#



  • Dose any one here use Microsoft's relatively  new language C# and if so what are your thoughts?



  • I use C#...obviously. [:$]



  • Well... I've only just started a project using it and comming from a Delphi seat it's not all that special really.

    In a nutshell the structure is very Java like, de syntax is mostly C++
    and looking at the .net framework itself, I'd say they've hired a lot
    of Borland engineers. All very VCL-isch.

    If you have Java, C++ or Delphi experience I wouldn't worry too much about having to switch.

    Like Delphi it's great for making applications and other serious stuff but I won't see them writing doom4 in it though [*-)]



    What can I say... just another language with some good things and some quirks.



    Ask me again in a few weeks [:P]




  • @austin said:

    Dose any one here use Microsoft's relatively  new language C# and if so what are your thoughts?

    It's pretty hard to separate the language (C#) from the framework (.NET). Any way you go (C#/VB.NET/J#.NET), .NET has brought development of everything from simple RAD apps to enterprise to the next level. Java/J2EE laid some of the groundwork, but .NET really takes things a step further with both tools and the technology.



  • Actually, I like Delphi and am using Delphi 2005 right now. And guess what? Borland made their version of C# (C#Builder) part of the Delphi compiler so I can now write .NET applications using C#... [:)]

    I don't do that, though. But it's an interesting concept. And Borland is planning to make their own C++ Compiler also an integral part of the Delphi compiler and thus the Delphi package becomes pretty interesting...



  • I've been a VB/VBA developer since ... well, put it this way, my second
    commercial project was written in GW-BASIC on IBM-XT computer (8086
    processor, 640k RAM, we had dual 5.25" floppies, and a 20Mb hard drive!
    Way cool.)



    Recently I decided to go to C# instead of VB.NET, and have found it
    really easy to use and develop with. I'm writing some security software
    (web services, site scanners, etc) as an exercise to help me learn, but
    enjoying it.



    I did some of the Microsoft courses (through work) and they helped to
    nail the fundamentals, but there are also heaps of great books around,
    not to mention good forums.



    Dylan.



  • I've been developing in C# / .NET for a little over a year now, and I
    must say it is the best environment that I've come across in my career
    (~15 years).  Very few gripes at all, and the ones I do have are being
    handled in the .NET 2.0 release (such as built-in FTP protocol support)



  • I've used both C# and VB.NET at work for most of the past year. Given
    that C# and VB.NET compile the same way, I still go for C#'s less
    verbose approach at things. I dunno, I guess I just like things that
    way.



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

     austin wrote:
    Dose any one here use Microsoft's relatively  new language C# and if so what are your thoughts?

    It's pretty hard to separate the language (C#) from the framework (.NET). Any way you go (C#/VB.NET/J#.NET), .NET has brought development of everything from simple RAD apps to enterprise to the next level. Java/J2EE laid some of the groundwork, but .NET really takes things a step further with both tools and the technology.



  • Oh for the love of god, this heap of poo board ate my reply.



    Lets try again without quoting.



    Anyway, it's a valid point now, a language is not special it's the
    framework around it that does the hard work. The .net framework really
    ought to be "apart" from the CLR, just look at the ISO/ECMA standards,
    they're around the CLR and the C# language, the framework is a seperate
    entity.



  • @blowdart said:

    Oh come now, you don't expect us to believe you'd actually leave your mother's basement do you?

    What's funny is that intelligentperson, austin, and user all come from 67.171.127.25. Our troll needs to go back to slashdot. IP banning isn't functioning in this beta, but I'll hard code this right in the HttpModule if needed ...

     



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    What's funny is that intelligentperson, austin, and user all come from 67.171.127.25. Our troll needs to go back to slashdot. IP banning isn't functioning in this beta, but I'll hard code this right in the HttpModule if needed ...

    Oh now you have to leave the trolls, it was amusement for me on the day when a little junior muppet tried to take over a meeting and say that his database schema where the primary key holding a database together would change because the system that is feeding the database might change in 5 years.

    [8o|]



  • <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">Out of all the CLR languages I tend to favour C# unless I know I am going to be constantly interopping with unmanaged code, in which case I will go C++. I use C# mainly because it gives me a little more flexibility than the others while keeping a familiar syntax. Cool things like unchecked and unsafe blocks for example.</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">The framework definitely has a VCL feel to it, which is a good thing. I loved delphi, and hardly used the MFC crap. RAD should be rapid, not fooling around with HRESULTS and handles :P</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">C# is also quite fast. Benchmarking it unoptimised its about 85% the speed of the MS C compiler, and significantly faster than gcc. When they bring out fully optimised JIT I imagine it is going to kick a fair bit of ass.</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">Also the IDE is good and going to be a hell of a lot better when Team System comes out (but $$$). One of my home projects is a plugin allowing graphical design of business layers and workflow. Sort of a poor mans version of Biztalk.</FONT>



  • @KoFFiE said:

     phx wrote:
    ...
    C# is also quite fast. Benchmarking it unoptimised its about 85% the speed of the MS C compiler, and significantly faster than gcc. When they bring out fully optimised JIT I imagine it is going to kick a fair bit of ass.


    That the *native* MS C compiler is a lot faster than gcc - that's true, but Mono's jit and runtime are a lot faster than the one in the .NET framework. What are you trying to prove?

    That C# is faster than gcc-compiled code is bullshit. This may be true for certain code-parts and synthetic benchmarks, but in those, it will also be (a bit less ofcourse) faster than the MS compiler, since a JIT for bytecode languages can generate incredibly optimal code for mathematical calculations, in a much simpler way than what classical native compilers have to pull off. In normal application flow however, native code beats the hell out of any interpreted language in terms of execution speed.

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">

    </FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">Dont forget thats with 'special' optimizations off (SSE etc). Flicking the switches on MS C and GCC pushes them up about 4 times faster (a lot of FFTs and prime finders). As I said though, the JIT  at present doesnt optimise for the platform.</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">MSIL != bytecode. Bytecode is, well, assembly for a virtual chip. MSIL is lower level than C#, sure, but it is a real language, with real features and happy thoughts. Things like foreach. It compiles down to real binaries which run on your real CPU. The only reason its slower than it could be is the aforementioned optimizations not done yet. So it isnt utilizing your SSE2 :P</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">Microsofts site has the ECMA specs hosted somewhere. They'll describe how the JITed code gets wired up and cached. Its pretty much like me giving you the source code and letting you compile it -O4 etc.</FONT>

    <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef">I put in gcc because it surprised me and is a good demo that C# is compiled and run on your CPU and is not slow. Not Hippy bashing - although I do like to get in a bit of Hippy Bashing every once in a while. Theres no doubt that gcc is faster with full optimizations on, however.</FONT>



  • This part of the MSDN describes the process.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpguide/html/cpconMicrosoftIntermediateLanguageMSIL.asp

    At execution time the MSIL it is JITted method by method into native code and cached.

    The 'sandbox' is simulated by sanity checks when the MSIL is compiled. These checks can be quite complex, enabling you to switch off disk access / network etc. Some specific things like unmanaged code / COM interop require full permissions.

    The whole CLR is quite amazing in some of the cool things it can do. It pays to look closely - you'll find some fun stuff ;)

     



  • .



  • @fbmac Holy fuck stop.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @fbmac Yo dawg....


  • area_deu



  • I've been trying to learn this new-fangled language and it feels a lot like Java. But dad-gum does that Silverlight feature look cool, it looks like it has a bright future to it. I'm really excited for this and that music player they are developing.



  • @theBread said in C#:

    I've been trying to learn this new-fangled language and it feels a lot like Java. But dad-gum does that Silverlight feature look cool, it looks like it has a bright future to it. I'm really excited for this and that music player they are developing.

    I bet they'll start publishing the new Strong Bad Emails in Silverlight instead of Flash. Right around the time he gets rid of his Compy 386.



  • @apapadimoulis said in C#:

    What's funny is that intelligentperson, austin, and user all come from 67.171.127.25. Our troll needs to go back to slashdot. IP banning isn't functioning in this beta, but I'll hard code this right in the HttpModule if needed ...

    How far our trolls have come.

    Also:

    =(


    Filed under: Should I do that thing people do and redact the username of my local pc account?



  • @Lorne-Kates said in C#:

    @apapadimoulis said in C#:

    What's funny is that intelligentperson, austin, and user all come from 67.171.127.25. Our troll needs to go back to slashdot. IP banning isn't functioning in this beta, but I'll hard code this right in the HttpModule if needed ...

    How far our trolls have come.

    Aren't the trolls one of the primary parts of the forum now?



  • @JazzyJosh said in C#:

    @fbmac Holy fuck stop.

    Why? I am curious what @blakeyrat thinks about this newfangled language. I think he is an expert and thus should be an early adopter.



  • @SnipeZ said in C#:

    Like Delphi it's great for making applications and other serious stuff but I won't see them writing doom4 in it though [*-)]

    0_1465518551693_upload-a6c375e0-91e3-47ee-b334-11b4cd5cba89

    Awww... that would have been so great. Guess they still need those "down to the metal" optimizations.

    Someone bump this thread in 11 years to see if the "AAA games" are finally using C#.



  • @anonymous234 the engines are c++, but someone here said the games themselves are already using c#


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @drurowin said in C#:

    Aren't the trolls one of the primary parts of the forum now?

    The lunatics took over this asylum long ago.



  • @Lorne-Kates said in C#:

    Would you expect anyone else from a consumer account? The spirits say Comcast Cable, Salt Lake City.



  • @anonymous234 What sets the bar for 'AAA', because anything made in Unity uses C#, and I'm sure backends are written in C#



  • @theBread GTA and call of duty are AAA. unity games aren't



  • @fbmac The Final Fantasy 9 re-release was made in Unity. Does that count as AAA?



  • This post is deleted!


  • @fbmac There have been a few cases where the unity version of a game was far superior than than one produced by a AAA studio. Case in point: SimCity vs Cities:Skylines.



  • @MechanicalPen close, but if it's a rerelease of an old game, no cigar



  • Too bad we don't still have badges. Because I'd award a badge under the following circumstances:

    • You are the OP
    • You haven't posted in 10 years
    • @fbmac necros your thread
    • You respond


  • @Lorne-Kates there is too few active users with older than 10 year accounts, I think.



  • @fbmac said in C#:

    @Lorne-Kates there is too few active users with older than 10 year accounts, I think.

    That's why it will be a very special badge.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @fbmac said in C#:

    @theBread GTA and call of duty are AAA.

    Marketing budget then. There's no other true determinant, and the current tools used by acknowledged AAA games are mostly a matter of what a small number of development houses are already using.



  • @dkf said in C#:

    Marketing budget then.

    the total budget, in my opinion. but the marketing one is easier to perceive.

    example of non AAA game with big marketing budget: bubble witch saga


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @fbmac You underestimate just how much marketing the AAA games have thrown at them. All those TV adverts don't come cheap.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @fbmac said in C#:

    there is too few active users with older than 10 year accounts, I think.

    *raises hand*



  • @FrostCat but you took 5 years to create a topic, so still can't take that badge



  • @Lorne-Kates said in C#:

    You haven't posted in 10 years

    Not me. I didn't join until :disco: :horse: But I was reading for many years before that...



  • C# will never be used for any sort of real time application like games because it's garbage-collected and therefore slow.



  • Shots fired.

    :popcorn:



  • 0_1465781515713_upload-f5cc5048-43e4-42f2-9628-dd06b6cc9565

    Edit: Pasting images in edit is broken.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Cursorkeys said in C#:

    0_1465781515713_upload-f5cc5048-43e4-42f2-9628-dd06b6cc9565

    Edit: Pasting images in edit is broken.

    Low quality hoit? What is a hoit?



  • @Tsaukpaetra said in C#:

    Low quality hoit? What is a hoit?

    You use it to catch hish.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Cursorkeys said in C#:

    @Tsaukpaetra said in C#:

    Low quality hoit? What is a hoit?

    You use it to catch hish.

    I'm calling :whoosh: ! 📞
    0_1465783880081_Screenshot_20160612-191025.png
    Yo !



  • @Tsaukpaetra Definitely a whoosh. That explains 'hoity-toity' then.


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