More useless error messages
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@HardwareGeek said:
Well, my point was that a modern composer can't write in the style of Beethoven or Mahler today and be taken seriously by the industry (hence the term "pops"), though people who go to concerts would probably like the music.Interesting. So by that criterion, Philip Glass, e.g., would be "classical" while, John Williams would be "pops," despite the undeniable fact that Williams's music is much more in the classical tradition, while Glass's is... different. Well, it certainly fits the statement that contemporary "classical" music must be "scheduled between pieces that people actually want to listen to." You're defining "classical" in such a way that, by definition, includes only "different" music and excludes anything traditional, accessible or popular (with unspecified exceptions). Therefore, assuming people don't generally want to listen to atonal music, which is mostly true, contemporary "pieces that people actually want to listen to" are, by definition, not "classical" (with exceptions).
I don't agree with your definition. If I were forced, for some inexplicable reason, to decide whether Williams's or Glass's music was "classical," and I could only choose one, I would definitely choose Williams's. It has much more in common with unequivocally classical composers such as Beethoven or Mahler than does Glass's. Glass's music is definitely not "pops," but putting it into the same category as Mozart's requires defining that category much more broadly than is required to include Williams's, and doing so defines it broadly enough that Williams's fits, also, easily.
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@PedanticCurmudgeon said:
Well, my point was that a modern composer can't write in the style of Beethoven or Mahler today and be taken seriously by the industry (hence the term "pops"), though people who go to concerts would probably like the music.
That seems more like the industry's problem.
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@PedanticCurmudgeon said:
Well, my point was that a modern composer can't write in the style of Beethoven or Mahler today and be taken seriously by the industry (hence the term "pops"), though people who go to concerts would probably like the music.
Ah, yes. Music written in a traditional style is unoriginal; therefore, it is ignored or dismissed as "pops." Music in a non-traditional style is original; therefore, it is praised by academics and critics, but not programmed in concerts, because audiences don't like it and won't pay money to listen to it.@joe.edwards said:That seems more like the industry's problem.
This. @joe.edwards said:Filed under: Why does art shun its audience?
Why do (some) artists go out of their way to give the finger to their audience?
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@HardwareGeek said:
Why do (some) artists go out of their way to give the finger to their audience?
Because they're not in the more traditional position of an artist: needing to please the audience's taste so they continue to eat, drink and have a roof over their head. They've stopped regarding art as a job.
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@HardwareGeek said:
Ugh. You have a crap classical station.
Probably. All of Toronto radio is pretty much crap. 99% of the stations are owned by Corus, so they're slowly turning into the same demographic-hunting homogonized commercial delivery system.
(When the program director of a once ground-breaking alt-rock station says, on record, he wants it to instead be top-40s with grunge-- you're in trouble)
Yesterday (Wed 20 Nov 2013) playlist for the classical station is: http://www.classical963fm.com/what-was-that-piece/?dt=2013-11-20
To give you an idea about how they're desperately floundering, trying to "sound cool" to the younger generation (despite the fact that their commercials are 100% LITERALLY aimed directly at baby boomers--), 09:13. That's the AM for your civilian folks. "LEGEND OF ZELDA-THE WINDWALKER: DRAGON ROOST ISLAND"
Given that one day, I tried to classify them. There's Classical, which is anything that looks classical to my untrained eye-- "Mozart stuff", let's say. This number may be a few points higher. Then there were these other categories:
Movies (soundtracks), Video Game, Il Divo (they get their own category, ffs!), Traditional (Scarborough Fair, Lullabye, etc), Modern (classical-sounding stuff by modern students, or contemporary songs like Cole Porter), Covers (string covers of non-classical songs).
Breakdown (162 songs)
Classical: 136
Movie: 9
Video Game; 1
Il Divo: 3
Traditional: 6
Modern: 5
Cover: 2
Classical vs. Non-Classical: 136 : 25 (19.1% non-classical)
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@Lorne Kates said:
WINDWALKER
*Wind Waker
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@Lorne Kates said:
Copypaste.
Ok.
So they don't care about any sort of accuracy in their radio station.
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@Lorne Kates said:
Yesterday (Wed 20 Nov 2013) playlist for the classical station is: http://www.classical963fm.com/what-was-that-piece/?dt=2013-11-20
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista Pergolesi@Lorne Kates said:
09:13. "LEGEND OF ZELDA-THE WINDWALKER: DRAGON ROOST ISLAND"
They played it at 09:12 the day before. Apparently someone has a thing for Legend of Zelda at 9 AM.
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@El_Heffe said:
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)
09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista PergolesiHaha what a bunch of morons, everybody knows that Bach is Baroque, not Classical.
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@HardwareGeek said:
@PedanticCurmudgeon said:
Well, my point was that a modern composer can't write in the style of Beethoven or Mahler today and be taken seriously by the industry (hence the term "pops"), though people who go to concerts would probably like the music.
Ah, yes. Music written in a traditional style is unoriginal; therefore, it is ignored or dismissed as "pops." Music in a non-traditional style is original; therefore, it is praised by academics and critics, but not programmed in concerts, because audiences don't like it and won't pay money
to listen to it.
Exactly. What's worse is that people who like classical are waiting for the next Beethoven or Mahler, but the industry's attitude has made the next Beethoven and next Mahler impossible.
@HardwareGeek said:@joe.edwards said:
It's actually more along the lines of "Eat your brussels sprouts (that have been boiled into mush). They're good for you."That seems more like the industry's problem.
This.
@joe.edwards said:Filed under: Why does art shun its audience?
Why do (some) artists go out of their way to give the finger to their audience?
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I really love the direction this thread has taken. It went from people (rightly) mocking me for blaming Windows for something that wasn't it's fault, straight into a (semi) civilized discussion of various genres of classical (et. al.) music.
This forum is the best, you are all the best, and I can't pick the best of the best because you're ALL the best.
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@Lorne Kates said:
@HardwareGeek said:
Ugh. You have a crap classical station.
Probably. All of Toronto radio is pretty much crap.
I blame Rob Ford.
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@mikeTheLiar said:
I really love the direction this thread has taken. It went from people (rightly) mocking me for blaming Windows for something that wasn't it's fault, straight into a (semi) civilized discussion of various genres of classical (et. al.) music.
This forum is the best, you are all the best, and I can't pick the best of the best because you're ALL the best.
You're welcome.
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@Ronald said:
@El_Heffe said:
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)
09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista PergolesiHaha what a bunch of morons, everybody knows that Bach is Baroque, not Classical.
So were Barrière1 and Pergolesi, and Beethoven is arguably Romantic, not Classical.
Clearly, Grainger is the least like the others. I suppose compositions in a classical (broadly defined) style based on folk tunes would fit, by the criteria used in this thread, into "pops."
1 There is a contemporary composer also named Jean-Baptiste Barrière, but since (from my limited ability to read French Wikipedia) he seems to write mostly electronic music, I assume the Baroque composer is the one referred to here. I had never, that I can recall, heard of either before today.
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@HardwareGeek said:
@Ronald said:
@El_Heffe said:
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)
09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista PergolesiHaha what a bunch of morons, everybody knows that Bach is Baroque, not Classical.
Clearly, Grainger is the least like the others.
I guess your answer is ironic, so I reply with this ironic image:
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@Ronald said:
@HardwareGeek said:
@Ronald said:
@El_Heffe said:
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)
09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista PergolesiHaha what a bunch of morons, everybody knows that Bach is Baroque, not Classical.
Clearly, Grainger is the least like the others.
I guess your answer is ironic, so I reply with this ironic image:
FTFY
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@Ben L. said:
@Ronald said:
@HardwareGeek said:
@Ronald said:
@El_Heffe said:
Today: (one of these things is not like the others)
09:21 SONATA FOR 2 CELLOS: ALLEGRO PRESTISSIMO Jean Barriere
09:12 SEPTET IN Eb OP.20: TEMPO DI MENUETTO Ludwig Van Beethoven
09:07 MOLLY ON THE SHORE Percy Grainger
08:53 OBOE D'AMORE CONCERTO IN A: FINALE Johann Sebastian Bach
08:42 FLUTE CONCERTO IN G: ALLEGRO SPIRITOSO Giovanni Battista PergolesiHaha what a bunch of morons, everybody knows that Bach is Baroque, not Classical.
Clearly, Grainger is the least like the others.
I guess your answer is ironic, so I reply with this ironic image:
FTFYMCTFY
