Another unappreciated dev



  • Another classic from notalwaysworking.com.

    The fact that he doesn't think he needs a reference from the company shows a high level of WTF in my opinion. I'm assuming he literally trusts nobody else in said company and must dislike his co-workers a great deal. Particularly if he's been hired as a developer in spite of the fact that apparently you don't need training to do that job.

    While not IT-related, I worked as a temp lorry loader once a while back. The place of work was dirty, smelly, noisy maltings with equipment that had the potential to cut off my fingers or make me deaf, and was managed stereotypically by people who claimed myself and the other temps were lazy when we weren't given any instructions. I'm guessing, as unskilled temps, we were supposed to wonder around and find things to do ourselves, in the place of potentially dangerous machinery which we didn't reliably know about, because we were temps who the management didn't know. When fighting to squeeze a bag into a small hole (betcha can't make an innuendo out of that) I had to defend myself for struggling to do it, and was told the job I was doing was the "f*cking easiest job in the world". He didn't try doing it himself or even instruct me on how to do it better. I know now that this manager had not done sufficient research to back up his claim, as every single job I have done since has been easier, safer and better paid.

    In conclusion, I'm tempted to believe that the WTF here is failing to appreciate why you're hiring someone. It doesn't stand to reason that their ability to do it would be belittled, unless management are trying to pull a fast one with morale and manipulation.



  • The question is, would you want a reference from a company full of people who consider your college education (in the field they hired you to do no less) a waste of time and money as a reference? The tone of the story suggests this has been going on for awhile, and to just blurt something like that out suggests an atmosphere where such comments would not be considered uncommon.


    Based on the little information at hand, I wouldn't want one either, really. That said, I wouldn't have totally ignored the pleas for help...that's what consulting rates are for. ;)



  • When I leave my current job I won't be asking for a reference. I've got some now-former employees who can vouch for me, one being the senior developer, so I couldn't care less what the company thinks of me. I'd rather have references from people who I made a personal connection with, not from the company just because I worked there.



  • @aapis said:

    When I leave my current job I won't be asking for a reference. I've got some now-former employees who can vouch for me, one being the senior developer, so I couldn't care less what the company thinks of me. I'd rather have references from people who I made a personal connection with, not from the company just because I worked there.

    I could vouch for you if only you could spell API properly.



  • @Shoreline said:

    When fighting to squeeze a bag into a small hole (betcha can't make an innuendo out of that) I had to defend myself for struggling to do it, and was told the job I was doing was the "f*cking easiest job in the world". He didn't try doing it himself or even instruct me on how to do it better. I know now that this manager had not done sufficient research to back up his claim, as every single job I have done since has been easier, safer and better paid.
    You did all the innuendo already.



  •  In many locations [e.g. New York State, USA] a company may only answer two questions for a reference:

     1) Did the person work there from xxxx to xxxx in the position of xxxxx?

     2) Would you Hire them again?

    CURRENT employees of the company are likely to (officially) be under the same constraint or risk their own positions.... FORMER employees are usually free to do more...



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

     In many locations [e.g. New York State, USA] a company may only answer two questions for a reference:

     1) Did the person work there from xxxx to xxxx in the position of xxxxx?

     2) Would you Hire them again?

    CURRENT employees of the company are likely to (officially) be under the same constraint or risk their own positions.... FORMER employees are usually free to do more...

    In the UK, you would be on shaky ground with the second question. We're really only allowed to (well, "recommended to", rather than "allowed to") verify job title, length of tenure and salary. Anything subjective is open to a whole world of legal butt-hurt.



  • @Zecc said:

    @Shoreline said:

    When fighting to squeeze a bag into a small hole (betcha can't make an innuendo out of that) I had to defend myself for struggling to do it, and was told the job I was doing was the "f*cking easiest job in the world". He didn't try doing it himself or even instruct me on how to do it better. I know now that this manager had not done sufficient research to back up his claim, as every single job I have done since has been easier, safer and better paid.
    You did all the innuendo already.

    Lol. I didn't even see that. Good spot. :)

    (That's what she said?)



  • @skotl said:

    Anything subjective is open to a whole world of legal butt-hurt.
    Innuendo often results in butt-hurt.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @skotl said:

    Anything subjective is open to a whole world of legal butt-hurt.
    Innuendo often results in butt-hurt.



  • @skotl said:

    In the UK, you would be on shaky ground with the second question. We're really only allowed to (well, "recommended to", rather than "allowed to") verify job title, length of tenure and salary. Anything subjective is open to a whole world of legal butt-hurt.
     

    A former boss - when asked for a reference, stated "legally I can't say anything that will jepordise their employment chances.. so I'm reserving my right to refuse providing a reference".

    It worked.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Cassidy said:

    A former boss - when asked for a reference, stated "legally I can't say anything that will jepordise their employment chances.. so I'm reserving my right to refuse providing a reference".
    That's an awfully long winded way of saying "no" when asked to give a reference.



  • @PJH said:

    @Cassidy said:
    A former boss - when asked for a reference, stated "legally I can't say anything that will jepordise their employment chances.. so I'm reserving my right to refuse providing a reference".
    That's an awfully long winded way of saying "no" when asked to give a reference.

    It's also illegal by the logic presented in the statement.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Ben L. said:

    @PJH said:
    @Cassidy said:
    A former boss - when asked for a reference, stated "legally I can't say anything that will jepordise their employment chances.. so I'm reserving my right to refuse providing a reference".
    That's an awfully long winded way of saying "no" when asked to give a reference.

    It's also illegal by the logic presented in the statement.
    As, technically, is not replying at all, or not answering some of the questions.



  • @Cassidy said:

    @skotl said:

    In the UK, you would be on shaky ground with the second question. We're really only allowed to (well, "recommended to", rather than "allowed to") verify job title, length of tenure and salary. Anything subjective is open to a whole world of legal butt-hurt.
     

    A former boss - when asked for a reference, stated "legally I can't say anything that will jepordise their employment chances.. so I'm reserving my right to refuse providing a reference".

    It worked.

    This is nothing but legal counsel laziness at work. It's very hard to sue someone for giving a bad reference because 1) you need evidence that they actually badmouthed you, 2) you have to prove that the reference is not based on facts and is either inaccurate or offensive, and 3) you have to bring the spooked employer in the mix because you can't win a lawsuit on hearsay.

    So when your legal department says not to give bad references, they just try to tweak in their favor the odds of not being disturbed by pointless legal noise. That's the equivalent of a department store clerk asking for receipts when you return shit you don't want, it's just a way keep some of the riff-raff away.



  • @PJH said:

    As, technically, is not replying at all, or not answering some of the questions.
     

    Therefore, the solution is to ask to meet the potential employer in person. Seduce and/or drug them. Move them unseen to a remote location and murder them. Then dispose of/eat the body.

    If this becomes a repeat incident, you may want to consider doing the same to the former employee.


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