The iPhone is doomed, and Spain as well



  • Firefox OS $90 phone is coming out (in Spain).



    It will obviously a big success and developers will rush to build apps, especially following the feedback from the developer of one of the first apps:



    @The article said:

    “Things that are trivial in native application development such as utilizing the GPS or running parallel processes are much harder to be done efficiently in HTML5,” it says. “Just to give you an example, one of the hardest tasks we had was to play sounds at exactly the right time to match the driving directions. Something that is extremely easy when developing native applications became a challenge in HTML5.”




    The real funny part of that article is this:

    @The article said:
    BlackBerry’s low cost handsets have also traditionally done well with Spanish teens (and in emerging markets generally).




    So while the future of Firefox OS phones is unclear, at least now everybody agrees that Spain, with an economy so bad that only the Greeks can claim to be in a worse situation, is in the same bucket as India and Bangladesh as far as market segments go.



  • So this is what Mozilla's been doing instead of fixing their fucking browser. Well, good to see that their Google penis envy still hasn't abated..

    One day Ben L. is going to break into Google's house to try on her dresses and do that Silence of the Lambs bit in front of Google's bathroom mirror, only to find that Mozilla has beat him to it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    So this is what Mozilla's been doing instead of fixing their fucking browser platform.

    FTFY. You have to keep up with things.



  • @Ronald said:

    @The article said:
    “Things that are trivial in native application development such as utilizing the GPS or running parallel processes are much harder to be done efficiently in HTML5,” it says. “Just to give you an example, one of the hardest tasks we had was to play sounds at exactly the right time to match the driving directions. Something that is extremely easy when developing native applications became a challenge in HTML5.”
    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @Ronald said:

    @The article said:
    “Things that are trivial in native application development such as utilizing the GPS or running parallel processes are much harder to be done efficiently in HTML5,” it says. “Just to give you an example, one of the hardest tasks we had was to play sounds at exactly the right time to match the driving directions. Something that is extremely easy when developing native applications became a challenge in HTML5.”
    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.

    I hope it's not the true Javascript, but rather asm.js which apparently is an extraordinarily optimizable, low-level subset of JavaScript. Now THAT is a platform.



  • @Ronald said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.

    I hope it's not the true Javascript, but rather asm.js which apparently is an extraordinarily optimizable, low-level subset of JavaScript. Now THAT is a platform.

    All they've done is

    1. Automatically re-enable JS on FF23 (expected release Aug 6th) if previously disabled (I'm assuming this is a 'first-run' thing rather than on every startup)
    2. Removed the checkbox to disable JS from Preferences -> Content



      about:config -> javascript.enabled will still operate as expected.


  • @El_Heffe said:

    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.

    One the one hand, I think people who disable Javascript and complain about the web not working are like people who pour crushed glass into the motor oil of their car and complain about the engine not working.

    On the other hand, disabling JS is a useful development feature--I use it all the time when developing. But I'm sure this functionality will be restored by an extension (the usual solution when Mozilla pooches something), so for web devs it's probably no big deal.

    However here is also a small--but vocal--minority of Luddites who will form a lynch mob if you were to try and force them to use JS. And Mozilla knew that and they still decided to tempt fate, like a black guy strolling through small town Alabama in 1950 with a white girlfriend on each arm.

    Am I saying Mozilla are Civil Rights heroes? Perhaps.



  • @PJH said:

    @Ronald said:
    @El_Heffe said:
    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.

    I hope it's not the true Javascript, but rather asm.js which apparently is an extraordinarily optimizable, low-level subset of JavaScript. Now THAT is a platform.

    All they've done is

    1. Automatically re-enable JS on FF23 (expected release Aug 6th) if previously disabled (I'm assuming this is a 'first-run' thing rather than on every startup)
    2. Removed the checkbox to disable JS from Preferences -> Content



      about:config -> javascript.enabled will still operate as expected.

    This is disappointing. I was hoping they'd hold the user's face down in a puddle of muddy water and periodically jam a knee into his kidneys until he accepted Javascript as his True Savior. sigh



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    One day Ben L. is going to break into Google's house to try on her dresses and do that Silence of the Lambs bit in front of Google's bathroom mirror, only to find that Mozilla has beat him to it.

    Would you compile me? I'd compile me. I'd compile me hard.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    people who disable Javascript and complain about the web not working are like people who pour crushed glass into the motor oil of their car and complain about the engine not working.

    Did you try that (the crushed glass in motor oil)? Over at the vacation house I've been running an old Chrysler without a filter for quite a while (for "performance" reasons) and I'm sure there is everything from dead squirrels to 2x4 sawdust in the motor oil and that car is still purring like a cat who just ate his fur. Crushed glass in the fuel tank would probably mess up injectors, but in the motor oil? I don't think it would really prevent the car from running. If you publish your address, car make and license plate number we could confirm this hypothesis.



  • @Ronald said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    people who disable Javascript and complain about the web not working are like people who pour crushed glass into the motor oil of their car and complain about the engine not working.

    Did you try that (the crushed glass in motor oil)? Over at the vacation house I've been running an old Chrysler without a filter for quite a while (for "performance" reasons) and I'm sure there is everything from dead squirrels to 2x4 sawdust in the motor oil and that car is still purring like a cat who just ate his fur. Crushed glass in the fuel tank would probably mess up injectors, but in the motor oil? I don't think it would really prevent the car from running. If you publish your address, car make and license plate number we could confirm this hypothesis.

    I figured if you dump it in the top, it's going to jam up the oil galleries and valve train pretty quickly.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    On the other hand, disabling JS is a useful development feature--I use it all the time when developing. But I'm sure this functionality will be restored by an extension (the usual solution when Mozilla pooches something), so for web devs it's probably no big deal.

    Is the behavior with JS completely turned off significantly different compared to just blacklisting (or failing to whitelist) your own site in NoScript? Because that extension already exists and has a lot less of a baby/bathwater problem.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @Ronald said:

    @The article said:
    “Things that are trivial in native application development such as utilizing the GPS or running parallel processes are much harder to be done efficiently in HTML5,” it says. “Just to give you an example, one of the hardest tasks we had was to play sounds at exactly the right time to match the driving directions. Something that is extremely easy when developing native applications became a challenge in HTML5.”
    Just write all apps in Javascript, now that Firefox has removed the ability to disable it.

    Here is what you should have said: Firefox 23 Dumps Dangerous Settings so Users Don't End Up Breaking the Browser. It's now obvious that for all those years if Firefox was broken it was because of the users (they were holding it wrong).



  • @arotenbe said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    On the other hand, disabling JS is a useful development feature--I use it all the time when developing. But I'm sure this functionality will be restored by an extension (the usual solution when Mozilla pooches something), so for web devs it's probably no big deal.

    Is the behavior with JS completely turned off significantly different compared to just blacklisting (or failing to whitelist) your own site in NoScript? Because that extension already exists and has a lot less of a baby/bathwater problem.

    You could just use NoScript's feature to turn on/off JS altogether, but it's still kind of dumb to have to install an extension just to get back a basic feature that's always been there. (Of course, somebody said above you can disable it in about:config, so you don't really need an extension, I guess..)



  • @Ronald said:

    Firefox OS $90 phone is coming out (in Spain).

    ///snip

    The real funny part of that article is this:
    @The article said:

    BlackBerry’s low cost handsets have also traditionally done well with Spanish teens (and in emerging markets generally).


    So while the future of Firefox OS phones is unclear, at least now everybody agrees that Spain, with an economy so bad that only the Greeks can claim to be in a worse situation, is in the same bucket as India and Bangladesh as far as market segments go.
     

    You guys might scoff but this might actually do quite well here in Spain because it is being backed by the Telefonica which pretty much have a monopoly over here. There is Orange, Vodaphone and Tuenti (their own facebook) do mobile deals as well as Telefonica / Movistar, but Telefonica is much larger.

    Typically most people aren't that bad off in Spain, the culture is very different over here and I paid the rent weeks late (on occasion) with nothing more than an email saying "On Holiday, promise I will pay it". Where I live (La Linea), pretty much no tax goes into the local area because everyone works in Gibraltar so it hit and miss whether the local council can pay the wages that month most of La Linea is basically Tapas bars for English work-force to drink in. It a bit of a shame.


  • @lucas said:

    Where I live (La Linea), pretty much no tax goes into the local area because everyone works in Gibraltar so it hit and miss whether the local council can pay the wages that month

    So y'all Spanish lispers go in the street and complain about the government who has to cut its spending, and you blame the Big Evil Banksters Of The West while having an established culture of tax evasion across the entire workforce.


    You guys deserve a Firefox phone.



  • @Ronald said:

    So y'all Spanish lispers go in the street and complain about the government who has to cut its spending, and you blame the Big Evil Banksters Of The West while having an established culture of tax evasion across the entire workforce.

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead. And then coming back a decade later and being like "Soo.. remember that crack I loaned you? I'd like it back."

    Meanwhile, Spain is twitching nervously, muttering to himself and picking at the scabs on his arm. "Okay, man, just listen. I'll get you your crack, but first I'm gonna need just a lil' more crack to help me think straight, you see.." And the Western countries fall for it every single time.

    Meanwhile meanwhile, the US realizes that if Spain doesn't come up with the crack, we may get to cut Spain's thumbs off, but we're also going to have to say Sayonara to our banking sector because our exposure to crack derivatives is more than even Marion Barry can spot us for. So we keep giving Spain a hit every now-and-then and desperately pray somebody invents a machine that unfucks economies between now and whenever the music stops and everyone finds out all the chairs were hawked for crack.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead.
    Somehow, I don't quite see how that description defends Spain.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead.
    Somehow, I don't quite see how that description defends Spain.

    He probably means that Spain is not the only retarded country in Europe, and I agree.



  • @Ronald said:

    So y'all Spanish lispers

    I'm am English. I can't talk Spanish very well.

    @Ronald said:

    go in the street and complain about the government who has to cut its spending, and you blame the Big Evil Banksters Of The West while having an established culture of tax evasion across the entire workforce.
     

    You can't really blame people for look after themselves first by earning quite considerably more in Gibraltar than they would working in Spain. TBH Most Spanish (that I speak to) if they even talk about it, think there is a lot of Government corruption, though I have no idea if this is commonly held belief.




  • @lucas said:

    You can't really blame people for look after themselves first by earning quite considerably more in Gibraltar than they would working in Spain.

    If they use public services in Spain but don't pay taxes, they are leeches. Like Apple.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead.
    Somehow, I don't quite see how that description defends Spain.

    Well, I'm saying if you loan crack to a crackhead expecting to get it back, then you are dumb.



  • @Ronald said:

    If they use public services in Spain but don't pay taxes, they are leeches. Like Apple.

    I think you are getting the wrong idea. Income tax is paid to the Gibraltarian Government while most people live in Spain.

    At the end of the day the only public services that I can think of is the rubbish collection and that is paid by the community tax (which is usually paid by the land-owner). Most things are run by a few massive companies and are charged individually.

    TBH this is quite a small area of Spain and it is a unusual setup.

     



  • @lucas said:

    @Ronald said:

    If they use public services in Spain but don't pay taxes, they are leeches. Like Apple.

    I think you are getting the wrong idea. Income tax is paid to the Gibraltarian Government while most people live in Spain.

    At the end of the day the only public services that I can think of is the rubbish collection and that is paid by the community tax (which is usually paid by the land-owner). Most things are run by a few massive companies and are charged individually.

    TBH this is quite a small area of Spain and it is a unusual setup.

     

    Great, so the Spain government offers no police, no firefighters, no roads, no army, no postal service, no welfare, no healthcare, no education? That makes Sierra Leone look like a socialist state.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @HardwareGeek said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead.
    Somehow, I don't quite see how that description defends Spain.

    Well, I'm saying if you loan crack to a crackhead expecting to get it back, then you are dumb.

    Agreed, certainly, and lending money to Spain was not exactly wise, but comparing Spain to a crackhead seems, rather than defending Spain, even more insulting than the comment you were "defending" them against. Not saying your comparison is wrong, just questioning the "[i]n defense of Spain" part.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    Agreed, certainly, and lending money to Spain was not exactly wise, but comparing Spain to a crackhead seems, rather than defending Spain, even more insulting than the comment you were "defending" them against.

    [thatsthejoke.jpg]



  • @Ronald said:

    Great, so the Spain government offers no police, no firefighters, no roads, no army, no postal service, no welfare, no healthcare, no education? That makes Sierra Leone look like a socialist state.

    As you are being a dick and pretending to miss the overrall point:

    • Healthcare and other things is covered by the country that you pay national insurace in, so if I had treatment in spain as long as I had my EU healthcard ... the NHS covers it. So I have already paid for any treatment.
    • Correos (Postal Service) is Privatised.
    • As for Emergency Services and Law Enforcement over here, it depends which one. There are quite a few and I doubt they all come from the same kitty. I am not even going to pretend to know about that. However I expect there are quite a few taxes that my landlord pays that I have no idea that they exist.
    • Roads are pretty shabby around here.

    Lets pretend you aren't stupid enough to mis-understanding the overrall point, that Spain is relatively expensive if you work in Spain and for those that live around Gibraltar it an easy commute to a better paying (albeit small) province. It doesn't matter how much time you spend calling names, most people won't pay for something if they don't have to and if people are paying better money only a few miles away they are going to work there.

    Also I am sure you are one of these people that have never exploited the loop hole to get something for a lot less than you would have otherwise got.

    Also I think you are neglecting that because there are a lot of English people in the area, there is a lot of jobs created in restaurants, bars, construction and quite a few other services that might not otherwise exist and they are all paying taxes that are indirectly funded by people working in Gib.

    In other words, the world isn't perfect ... get over it.

     



  • @Ronald said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    people who disable Javascript and complain about the web not working are like people who pour crushed glass into the motor oil of their car and complain about the engine not working.

    Did you try that (the crushed glass in motor oil)?

    That crushed-glass-in-motor-oil analogy is a bit off anyway. Putting something that might be harmful into something that is required for smooth operation - that would be more an analogy for injecting malicious JS snippets yourself into every page you visit.

    I guess a better analogy would be to just refuse putting any oil into the engine (due to some ass-backward reasoning that is probably based on a complete misunderstanding of how engines work, or some past anecdote of how some dick put broken glass in your oil once so you don't want to expose yourself to that vulnerability anymore) and then complaining that the engine won't run.



  • @Ronald said:

    So y'all Spanish lispers go in the street and complain about the government who has to cut its spending, and you blame the Big Evil Banksters Of The West while having an established culture of tax evasion across the entire workforce.

    Actually, no. Most people blame Spanish politicians (even more corrupt than the man on the street) and Spanish bankers (who have shown themselves eager to buttonhole easily confused elderly people visiting their branch and persuade them to spend their life savings on financial instruments which they don't understand) rather than "The West".



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    In defense of Spain, loaning money to the PIIGS was like loaning crack to a crackhead. And then coming back a decade later and being like "Soo.. remember that crack I loaned you? I'd like it back."

    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I hate that we get lumped in with the southern countries that have that culture of tax evasion and massive wasteful public sector budgets.

    We pay our taxes, admittedly do have some crappy state companies but were living within our means (Government budget surplus in 2006, before crazy global collapse), and have a young, educated workforce producing high tech valuable products like software and pharmaceuticals for export.

    Our housing bubble bursting and banking bailout were catastrophic but we were growing at a very high clip for many years before that, and despite high unemployment and recession, we still do have a high tech, export orientated economy that can hopefully get back to growth soon. I don't see any similar way out for Spain or Greece for example.

    I do wish we had let our banks fail like Iceland tho, rather then begging billions off the EU... but I doubt the rest of the EU would have let us do that. Single currency for many countries can be kind of a bitch :/



  • @KillaCoda said:


    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I guess by "lame" you mean that you'll skip the usual unstable car bombs and shooting people in the back.



  • @KillaCoda said:

    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland?

    As long as you stand on a table and deliver it in the form of a drunken, slurred folk song.

    @KillaCoda said:

    We pay our taxes, admittedly do have some crappy state companies but were living within our means (Government budget surplus in 2006, before crazy global collapse), and have a young, educated workforce producing high tech valuable products like software and pharmaceuticals for export.

    I don't know why you think this will make a difference. You will be sacrificed to keep the Euro going, to keep America going. Long, painful, counter-productive wealth destruction is the name of the game now. America deserves a much harder ass-pounding than she's received in all of this, but it's not gonna happen (at least, not before she has built a raft from the lashed-together corpses of EU countries and tried to sail away from trouble.)

    @KillaCoda said:

    Our housing bubble bursting and banking bailout were catastrophic but we were growing at a very high clip for many years before that, and despite high unemployment and recession, we still do have a high tech, export orientated economy that can hopefully get back to growth soon.

    You sound like America, except for the exports thing. But America's decided it wants nothing to do actually improving things: it's cheap iPhones; "free" health care, food and housing; endless bailouts; playing World's Policeman; and generally just trying to milk the system for all she's worth until the wheels come off.

    @KillaCoda said:

    I don't see any similar way out for Spain or Greece for example.

    Say "fuck off" to the EU; default on their debts; let the banks go; and issue their own currency which is difficult to depreciate. It would be hard for a while, but it's already hard and I don't see it getting any better without getting out of the abusive monetary relationship they are in.

    @KillaCoda said:

    I do wish we had let our banks fail like Iceland tho, rather then begging billions off the EU... but I doubt the rest of the EU would have let us do that. Single currency for many countries can be kind of a bitch :/

    Of course not, that's kind of the point of the Euro: you aren't allowed to make decisions like that. But you still should have told the currency to "fuck off" and let your banks fail. Now, the problem wasn't the Euro in-and-of itself, but instead people confusing massive credit expansion for wealth creation. Don't worry, the rest of the world fell for this one, too. Japan seems to periodically fall for it every few years for the last two decades. America's still falling for it, two decades in and after numerous bubbles have blown up in our faces.



  • @Ronald said:

    @KillaCoda said:


    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I guess by "lame" you mean that you'll skip the usual unstable car bombs and shooting people in the back.

    I think Ireland is my second-favorite country. And I'm not even Irish, I'm Dutch (and German (and probably some British in there, too.))



  • @Ronald said:

    @KillaCoda said:


    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I guess by "lame" you mean that you'll skip the usual unstable car bombs and shooting people in the back.


    Of course! We don't do that to non-Irish. Just fellow citizens who are the wrong kind of Christrian :D



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I don't know why you think this will make a difference. You will be sacrificed to keep the Euro going, to keep America going. Long, painful, counter-productive wealth destruction is the name of the game now. America deserves a much harder ass-pounding than she's received in all of this, but it's not gonna happen (at least, not before she has built a raft from the lashed-together corpses of EU countries and tried to sail away from trouble.)


    The whole EU (and global I guess) mess and bailout paybacks ensure we won't be VERY successful. But I do think we'll do better then the rest of the PIIGS in recovering. Being small, educated, high tech and export orientated is a big help. Looking at Spain, with over half it's young people unemployed, who are basically sitting around waiting for tourism/construction to resume, I think it could be much worse.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    You sound like America, except for the exports thing. But America's decided it wants nothing to do actually improving things: it's cheap iPhones; "free" health care, food and housing; endless bailouts; playing World's Policeman; and generally just trying to milk the system for all she's worth until the wheels come off.


    Well I'm obviously not from there but you are still the richest, you are still growing, and you are generally doing better then most of the basket cases in the world. The best of a very bad bunch at the moment I would think? Btw we are essentially America, especially in the tech center: it's all your multinationals, MS, Apple, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Oracle, Dell, Intel, EA, etc are all here. Don't screw the system too badly, we are leeching off your success ;)

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Say "fuck off" to the EU; default on their debts; let the banks go; and issue their own currency which is difficult to depreciate. It would be hard for a while, but it's already hard and I don't see it getting any better without getting out of the abusive monetary relationship they are in.


    Yeah that'd work but won't ever happen. I meant in the context of staying in EU, they have no way out.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Of course not, that's kind of the point of the Euro: you aren't allowed to make decisions like that. But you still should have told the currency to "fuck off" and let your banks fail. Now, the problem wasn't the Euro in-and-of itself, but instead people confusing massive credit expansion for wealth creation. Don't worry, the rest of the world fell for this one, too. Japan seems to periodically fall for it every few years for the last two decades. America's still falling for it, two decades in and after numerous bubbles have blown up in our faces.

    Yeah I wish we would have done. But I don't think any politicians are bothered with that, except un-electable fringe parties.



  • @KillaCoda said:

    Well I'm obviously not from there but you are still the richest, you are still growing

    I think we're just good at making it look like we're growing. And maybe some areas are growing while other, core, actually important areas are collapsing.

    @KillaCoda said:

    Btw we are essentially America, especially in the tech center: it's all your multinationals, MS, Apple, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Oracle, Dell, Intel, EA, etc are all here. Don't screw the system too badly, we are leeching off your success ;)

    Hey, it's not my idea. I'd rather we took the painful hit and got back to having an economy that runs on a quasi-rational basis rather than unicorn farts. Right now the reasoning seems to be "Did we lose slightly fewer jobs than expected? Buy Apple! Did we lose more jobs than we expected? Buy Apple again!" It's wonderful when people who believe market economies make unsound decisions find themselves in charge of one and prove it.

    @KillaCoda said:

    Yeah I wish we would have done. But I don't think any politicians are bothered with that, except un-electable fringe parties.

    Being grown up and taking your lumps is not an electable message right now. So instead they pander, as they always do, and tell us that no matter how far off the cliff we've run, it's best to not look down and to just keep running, because then it will almost be like we're still running on solid ground. Of course, gravity kicks in eventually, but by then the politicians and their cronies will have fled with the loot and will be safely out of pitchforks-and-car-bombs range.



  • @lucas said:

    However I expect there are quite a few taxes that my landlord pays that I have no idea that they exist.

    This is often overlooked. It's especially amusing in the case of, say Starbucks, where they pay so much of their potential profit into exorbitant urban rent, much of which in turn ends up paid as taxes. In the US, at least, residential renters really get screwed, since their rent has to cover property taxes and any other taxes the landlord pays. And they don't get the tax benefits from things like interest payments.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @KillaCoda said:
    Well I'm obviously not from there but you are still the richest, you are still growing

    I think we're just good at making it look like we're growing. And maybe some areas are growing while other, core, actually important areas are collapsing.

    There's a lot to kill, and some of the plots (e.g., Obamacare, War On Climate Change, QE87) are still practically in their infancy. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day, you know.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    it's already hard and I don't see it getting any better
    Is that what she said?



  • @KillaCoda said:

    @Ronald said:
    @KillaCoda said:


    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I guess by "lame" you mean that you'll skip the usual unstable car bombs and shooting people in the back.


    Of course! We don't do that to non-Irish. Just fellow citizens who are the wrong kind of Christrian :D

    Which kind are you? Or to use the standard test: do you prefer U2 or The Police?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I'm Dutch
     

    GASP



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Being grown up and taking your lumps is not an electable message right now. So instead they pander, as they always do, and tell us that no matter how far off the cliff we've run, it's best to not look down and to just keep running, because then it will almost be like we're still running on solid ground. Of course, gravity kicks in eventually, but by then the politicians and their cronies will have fled with the loot and will be safely out of pitchforks-and-car-bombs range.


    You know, whenever I hear people talking about how America is shit lately, or how politicians have just run the country over the cliff, I wonder if they've ever been to a country that's actually been run over a cliff. I dunno about you, but I have a job. Everyone who graduated with me, even in the horrific nightmare of 2008, also has a job. It may not be the job I really want, but it pays the bills and I can't really blame the economy for my own mistakes. Unlike let's say, Mexico, I didn't wake up to see severed heads and dead bodies in the streets.



  •  @Ronald said:

    So while the future of Firefox OS phones is unclear, at least now everybody agrees that Spain, with an economy so bad that only the Greeks can claim to be in a worse situation, is in the same bucket as India and Bangladesh as far as market segments go.

    Well, ignoring the discussion on the economic status of the country (towards which I can only contribute "WTF guys?"), you should know that Spain's smartphone penetration level is currently not only the highest of the European Union but also higher than that of the United States. That is, there are more of those smartphones per capita in Spain than in most other developed countries. At more than 65%, it does not exactly compare favourably to India's 4% or Bangladesh' who-knows% . 

    No wonder it makes for an interesting market... even if going by absolute numbers it still means India has more smartphones than Spain has people.



  • @Snooder said:

    You know, whenever I hear people talking about how America is shit lately, or how politicians have just run the country over the cliff, I wonder if they've ever been to a country that's actually been run over a cliff.

    Yes, we're far too rich and free for the real shit to have happened yet. Somehow, we managed to largely (better than everyone else, at least) shake off fascism and socialism after Wilson and his protégé, Roosevelt. A lot of things are obviously a lot better than they were previously. Right now it's mostly about direction. Even though we've grown fabulously rich by historical standards, we should be saddened and angered by the attempts to halt and reverse this fact. Just because your neighbor died in a car crash, doesn't mean you should be happy that you only lost a foot.

    @Snooder said:

    Unlike let's say, Mexico, I didn't wake up to see severed heads and dead bodies in the streets.

    Been to Chicago or Detroit lately?



  • @boomzilla said:

    Right now it's mostly about direction.

    Sure, but it's far too early to be issuing dire warnings about direction when the changes are really, really minor. You can say you don't like the way the country is going, or say that you personally don't agree with current policy trends without claiming that the country suffering some catastrophic calamity. And the honesty would actually probably help when trying to convince people who (a) don't already agree with you, and (b) aren't gullible idiots.

    @boomzilla said:

    Just because your neighbor died in a car crash, doesn't mean you should be happy that you only lost a foot.

    Actually, yes, it does. If a guy rear-ends me, and the only damage something minor like a crumpled bumper, I'll be pretty happy.And I would be an asshole if I instead spent forever whining about it or made up some bullshit claim like whiplash.

    @boomzilla said:

    @Snooder said:
    Unlike let's say, Mexico, I didn't wake up to see severed heads and dead bodies in the streets.

    Been to Chicago or Detroit lately?



    See, that's the bullshit I'm talking about. Yeah, some cities in the rust belt have a higher crime rate due to a weakened local economy. But trying to pretend that it's anywhere near as bad as what's happening in Mexico is just fucking wow. Seriously, wow.



  • @Ronald said:

    @KillaCoda said:
    @Ronald said:
    @KillaCoda said:


    Can do a lame "patriotic" defense of Ireland? I can? Cool!

    I guess by "lame" you mean that you'll skip the usual unstable car bombs and shooting people in the back.


    Of course! We don't do that to non-Irish. Just fellow citizens who are the wrong kind of Christrian :D

    Which kind are you? Or to use the standard test: do you prefer U2 or The Police?


    Neither these days! I did wear a Celtic soccer jersey as a kid tho if that helps...



  • @Snooder said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Right now it's mostly about direction.

    Sure, but it's far too early to be issuing dire warnings about direction when the changes are really, really minor. You can say you don't like the way the country is going, or say that you personally don't agree with current policy trends without claiming that the country suffering some catastrophic calamity. And the honesty would actually probably help when trying to convince people who (a) don't already agree with you, and (b) aren't gullible idiots.

    I admit that I didn't lay it all out in this thread. But that's no excuse for Pollyannaism.

    @Snooder said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Just because your neighbor died in a car crash, doesn't mean you should be happy that you only lost a foot.

    Actually, yes, it does. If a guy rear-ends me, and the only damage something minor like a crumpled bumper, I'll be pretty happy.And I would be an asshole if I instead spent forever whining about it or made up some bullshit claim like whiplash.

    WTF? That's not the worst car analogy ever, but it's still a non sequitur. Here's a better one. He drank a bottle of whiskey and drove into a tree, killing himself. You had a few beers and killed a kid on a bike. And people like you are saying that it's OK because we have another six pack in the fridge at home.

    @Snooder said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @Snooder said:
    Unlike let's say, Mexico, I didn't wake up to see severed heads and dead bodies in the streets.

    Been to Chicago or Detroit lately?


    See, that's the bullshit I'm talking about. Yeah, some cities in the rust belt have a higher crime rate due to a weakened local economy. But trying to pretend that it's anywhere near as bad as what's happening in Mexico is just fucking wow. Seriously, wow.

    Perhaps. But another thing Detroit and Mexico have in common is that people are trying desperately to get out. Plus, it's fun to make fun of Detroit.



  • @javispedro said:

     @Ronald said:

    So while the future of Firefox OS phones is unclear, at least now everybody agrees that Spain, with an economy so bad that only the Greeks can claim to be in a worse situation, is in the same bucket as India and Bangladesh as far as market segments go.

    Well, ignoring the discussion on the economic status of the country (towards which I can only contribute "WTF guys?"), you should know that Spain's smartphone penetration level is currently not only the highest of the European Union but also higher than that of the United States. That is, there are more of those smartphones per capita in Spain than in most other developed countries. At more than 65%, it does not exactly compare favourably to India's 4% or Bangladesh' who-knows% . 

    No wonder it makes for an interesting market... even if going by absolute numbers it still means India has more smartphones than Spain has people.

    The Starbucks next door has a higher smartphone penetration rate than Spain. See how percentages are meaningful?



  • @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I'm Dutch
     

    GASP

    Of Dutch extraction, at the very least. It's the only heritage of mine anyone bothered keeping track of, although I'm probably only 1/4th Pure Dutch Blood.

    I shit you not, my mom has a pair of wooden shoes. They were more decorative than functional, but I think you could wear them if you really hated your feet.



  • @Snooder said:

    You know, whenever I hear people talking about how America is shit lately, or how politicians have just run the country over the cliff, I wonder if they've ever been to a country that's actually been run over a cliff.

    Clearly you haven't traveled very much within the US, then. There are areas where unemployment is simply absurd.

    @Snooder said:

    I dunno about you, but I have a job. Everyone who graduated with me, even in the horrific nightmare of 2008, also has a job.

    I have a great job, but most of the people I know either don't have a job or are in financial peril.

    @Snooder said:

    ...I can't really blame the economy for my own mistakes.

    Unlike you, I don't have any mistakes to blame on the economy. I've just been repeatedly fucked-over by the economic situation.

    @Snooder said:

    Unlike let's say, Mexico, I didn't wake up to see severed heads and dead bodies in the streets.

    Oh, hey, at least we're not Mexico! Man, you really set your sights high, eh?


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