Git git git git git git git git heroku git git heroku git git git git git
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Am I in crazytown?
THE PROJECT WAS ALREADY STARTED. It wasn't just started, it was released. It was live. It was delivered to the client. There was no "getting started."
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
@boomzilla said:
Or that something as simple as following "Getting Started" instructions when you're, well, getting started, is a good idea.
I wasn't "getting started".Maybe you and I and Dhromed and Heroku disagree on what "getting started" means, but I'm not wrong when I say I was not "getting started". So stop bringing up that bullshit.
Yes, it's perfectly clear now that you were an old hand at working with Heroku.
His point is that usually getting started pages are for setting up new projects to work with things (which is an assumption that i would have probably made as well). As such, he didn't look at the getting started page because the project was already (according to his coworker) set up and thus already started.
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@blakeyrat said:
Am I in crazytown?THE PROJECT WAS ALREADY STARTED. It wasn't just started, it was released. It was live. It was delivered to the client. There was no "getting started."
OK, see we take "getting started" to be about the user getting started with the system, not the project getting started.
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@DescentJS said:
His point is that usually getting started pages are for setting up new projects to work with things (which is an assumption that i would have probably made as well). As such, he didn't look at the getting started page because the project was already (according to his coworker) set up and thus already started.
Yes, we all get that. We're pointing out that, nevertheless, HE was just getting started. Reading their stuff, it looks like there is heroku stuff to install to be able to use heroku. (Oops, are we allowed to say "install' since the project was already deployed and live?) The fact that you have to install new software tells you that you're starting a process, regardless of what others have done in the past.If you're literally logging into your coworkers machine as him and using his established environment for doing this stuff, then you're in a very different place. The point here is that this isn't like they just hand you a server and you do whatever you want with it. It sure seems like its very managed by them (and ISTR getting that impression from his previous post about heroku, and the discussion therein).
So it makes sense to someone like me, who doesn't know much about how to use this thing to poke around and find out the basics. Which I did. I very well might have tried what he did first, which is to jump right to deploying it. If it works, it works, right? Try simple things first. But when you push on the door and it's locked, maybe you should look around and see if you can understand why.
A reasonable person would at least admit, "Yeah, the information was there, but it didn't occur to me to look there while I was under pressure and frustrated." And we'd say, "Dude, we've been there." Instead, we find out that heroku is immoral for hiding information about how to get your environment set up inside the Getting Started page instead of the Deploying with Git page. It sounds very similar, though.
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@boomzilla said:
Reading their stuff, it looks like there is heroku stuff to install to be able to use heroku.
I don't know what that stuff does, since you can deploy without it.
@boomzilla said:
The fact that you have to install new software tells you that you're starting a process, regardless of what others have done in the past.
Go read the deployment instruction page again and tell me where it says I need to install software.
@boomzilla said:
But when you push on the door and it's locked, maybe you should look around and see if you can understand why.
The error was so generic it was impossible to tell if it was due to the door being locked, the door being welded shut, or the door just being a painting on the wall. The (Git, BTW) error message gave me zero useful information for completing my task. It was fortunate that various other people had encountered the same useless error message, and wrote up pages and FAQ entries listing the possible causes. (One of which definitely was "the server is down".)
If the error message had read, "the door is locked; go grab the key from the cupboard downstairs", then there would have been no problem. But of course Git wouldn't have such a clear error message, because Git is a terrible piece of software written by terrible developers.
@boomzilla said:
Instead, we find out that heroku is immoral for hiding information about how to get your environment set up inside the Getting Started page instead of the Deploying with Git page.
Why would you right a list of steps to follow but neglect to include the first step?
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@blakeyrat said:
Why would you right a list of steps to follow but neglect to include the first step?
Ah. So what's the first step? Turn on computer? Or do we need to go back further than that? Should every help page of a website tell you how to login? How to create an account?
I'm not sure why I'm still trying to argue with you when you obviously can't accept that there might be an answer that doesn't start with the assumption that blakeyrat is always infallible so his failure to read simple things is not his fault.
I'll say it again (in different words), since you seem incapable of understanding it. It's OK to make a mistake. It's less OK to blame everyone else when you ignore obvious things like getting started with a new thing. Especially when you are infamous for being unable to deal with detours that work differently than you assume.
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The user having trouble using the program is the program's fault, not the user's.
When this sinks into your skull, Boomzilla, maybe you will be a less horrible person. Now please fuck off and die, thank you.
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@blakeyrat said:
The user having trouble using the program is the program's fault, not the user's.
Maybe. Sometimes, the user is just dumber than the program.
@blakeyrat said:
When this sinks into your skull, Boomzilla, maybe you will be a less horrible person. Now please fuck off and die, thank you.
LOL. The rationalizations never stop.
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@blakeyrat said:
The user having trouble using the program is the program's fault, not the user's.
What if the program is a Palm and the user calls it a Palm Pilot? WHO IS AT FAULT NOW?
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@Lorne Kates said:
@blakeyrat said:
The user having trouble using the program is the program's fault, not the user's.
What if the program is a Palm and the user calls it a Palm Pilot? WHO IS AT FAULT NOW?
Well, technically not a program, so I dunno.. the Canadian public education system?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@flabdablet said:
oth files need to be in the same folder, which can be anywhere you like
No they don't. You only need the private key to authenticate. I usually don't even keep public keys on my laptop.
Sometimes it's best to tell harmless lies to children and let them work it out when they grow up.
If blakey has it as a matter of dogma that he always needs to keep his private and public keys together, we won't ever need to hear the usual tedious tirade about some fucking broken fucking service wanting him to upload a fucking public key when the only fucking copy is on his fucking desktop and he's on the fucking road and why the fuck can't these fucking immoral open source fucks just fucking make fucking stuff that just fucking works and put every fucking thing in the fucking same fucking file and FUCK!
I mean it's amusing to watch and all, but I'm sure there's genuine suffering there.
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@flabdablet said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@flabdablet said:
oth files need to be in the same folder, which can be anywhere you like
No they don't. You only need the private key to authenticate. I usually don't even keep public keys on my laptop.
Sometimes it's best to tell harmless lies to children and let them work it out when they grow up.
If blakey has it as a matter of dogma that he always needs to keep his private and public keys together, we won't ever need to hear the usual tedious tirade about some fucking broken fucking service wanting him to upload a fucking public key when the only fucking copy is on his fucking desktop and he's on the fucking road and why the fuck can't these fucking immoral open source fucks just fucking make fucking stuff that just fucking works and put every fucking thing in the fucking same fucking file and FUCK!
I mean it's amusing to watch and all, but I'm sure there's genuine suffering there.
My bullshit detector just went off
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Re: putting together bikes
@boomzilla said:
I like to joke about putting together bikes and stuff that the first thing you do is throw away the instructions, but I didn't think there were actually people dumb enough to believe that.
1. Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind.
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@morbiuswilters said:
If someone has the server's private key, you're probably fucked anyway.
It's all about being fucked in depth. The more layers of fucked you have, the more fucked you are.
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@blakeyrat said:
Am I in crazytown?
It's possible. Your messages frequently appear to come from there.
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@flabdablet said:
we won't ever need to hear the usual tedious tirade about some fucking broken fucking service wanting him to upload a fucking public key when the only fucking copy is on his fucking desktop
Well presuming he has the private key (otherwise why the problem) then it's not beyond the wit of man to re-generate the public key from it.
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@blakeyrat said:
@boomzilla said:
Empirical evidence from past posts would tend to indicate that you are not in the group you describe as "the majority of people" even though you apparently think you are.I get that this is how you feel. Not everyone can pick things up quickly, and it takes different amounts of effort to become proficient in different things.
That is true; and it's the job of the software developer to ensure that the majority of people can learn and use their software effectively.
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
I LOLed. Out loud.@boomzilla said:
Eh...maybe I didn't at the time I typed that. The way you think and talk about things is so unintuitive, it's practically immoral for you to be sharing your thoughts.
"Oh my God, he's not part of the group-think! Quick mock him! Dismiss his ideas!"Fuck you. I don't know what kind of commie shithole you grew up in, but I'm an American, and in our country we value the open and free exchange of ideas.
You don't even remember your own posts well enough to know when they're being parodied.
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@PJH said:
presuming he has the private key (otherwise why the problem) then it's not beyond the wit of man to re-generate the public key
Ah, but that would require that the man involved exercise two skills:
1. Google
and
either of which, history suggests, is enough to trigger a tedious tirade on its own - especially given Google's tendency to second-guess the search terms.
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@flabdablet said:
@PJH said:
You're being very cynical today...presuming he has the private key (otherwise why the problem) then it's not beyond the wit of man to re-generate the public key
Ah, but that would require that the man involved exercise two skills:
1. Google
and
either of which, history suggests, is enough to trigger a tedious tirade on its own - especially given Google's tendency to second-guess the search terms.
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@PJH said:
Empirical evidence from past posts would tend to indicate that you are not in the group you describe as "the majority of people" even though you apparently think you are.
Since "the majority of people" could be arbitrarily defined as "blakeyrat, plus any selection of at least 50% of the remaining people", I'd say that he is in [b]that[/b] majority of people.
