Who needs social media?
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@joe.edwards said:
- A month later you receive a bill from the neuroradiologist, a bill from the hospital, a bill from the doctor, a bill for the staple gun and staples and antibiotics, and a bill for getting the staples removed later.
- Insurance covers half of the $3,800USD bills
I was going to ask what crappy insurance do you have, but then I figured out what mine would pay under those circumstances. If you have a high-deductible plan and haven't had any other medical expenses toward which to apply the deductible, that sounds about right, unfortunately.
The "good" news is that if you gash your head again this year, you'll only be out-of-pocket $760 (assuming 80% coverage after the deductible). The bad news is that if you wait until 1 January to gash your head, you'll be out the full $1900 again.
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@joe.edwards said:
@locallunatic said:
I'm sorry. :( Maybe if you looked in the Yellow Pages under "churches" you might be able to find one that was a fit.@drurowin said:
I hope your church or someone can help you out with the extra US$1,900 you're having to pay out of pocket.
WTF? That is the kind of thing everyone but super stretching the paycheck every single time should have stashed to cover things like that (and if you are in that category you get billed differently anyway). The amount of babying you expect people to get is sickening.
Yeah, I'm financially stable enough that it didn't break my bank; it wasn't a fun hit to take though. Also: I can't seem to find a church of atheism around.
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@morbiuswilters said:
If you're unlucky enough to be one of the, like, half-dozen people who does not have health insurance and who does not qualify for Medicaid,
In California, that includes everyone on Unemployment Insurance who formerly earned enough to receive the maximum possible amount, which is defined as "not nearly enough to live on, but $0.05 too much to qualify for Medicaid."
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@HardwareGeek said:
@joe.edwards said:
- A month later you receive a bill from the neuroradiologist, a bill from the hospital, a bill from the doctor, a bill for the staple gun and staples and antibiotics, and a bill for getting the staples removed later.
- Insurance covers half of the $3,800USD bills
I was going to ask what crappy insurance do you have, but then I figured out what mine would pay under those circumstances. If you have a high-deductible plan and haven't had any other medical expenses toward which to apply the deductible, that sounds about right, unfortunately.
The "good" news is that if you gash your head again this year, you'll only be out-of-pocket $760 (assuming 80% coverage after the deductible). The bad news is that if you wait until 1 January to gash your head, you'll be out the full $1900 again.
My employer gives me a high deductible plan and a Health Savings Account which they contribute to. The cool thing about this setup is that if I somehow manage to stay out of the hospital, I get to keep the money that went into the HSA versus just losing it to the insurance company.
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@HardwareGeek said:
@morbiuswilters said:
So you guys don't give health care to people who are on the dole! Bravo! Way to get those dole roll numbers down!If you're unlucky enough to be one of the, like, half-dozen people who does not have health insurance and who does not qualify for Medicaid,
In California, that includes everyone on Unemployment Insurance who formerly earned enough to receive the maximum possible amount, which is defined as "not nearly enough to live on, but $0.05 too much to qualify for Medicaid."
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@joe.edwards said:
My employer gives me a high deductible plan and a Health Savings Account which they contribute to. The cool thing about this setup is that if I somehow manage to stay out of the hospital, I get to keep the money that went into the HSA versus just losing it to the insurance company.
Uh, careful with those. Some the savings carries over to be used next year, others have more options for spending it on but they don't carry over. There are all kinds of little wonky bits to the health insurance set up in the states.
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@locallunatic said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@drurowin said:
Remember Benjamin Franklin's old saying. "Those that would temporarily sacrifice liberty for permanent safety deserve both."
I thought that was Thomas Jefferson. Or Winston Churchill.Really? I'm surprised that you gave him a pass on the mangling of it to fit what he is saying, I mean it's the easiest strawman ever on a silverplater.
I was trolling, as was he. Nobody is dumb enough to think that's the actual quote and drurowin knows it.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@locallunatic said:
I'm also trying not to derail any new threads this week, so I'm sticking to the classics.@morbiuswilters said:
@drurowin said:
Remember Benjamin Franklin's old saying. "Those that would temporarily sacrifice liberty for permanent safety deserve both."
I thought that was Thomas Jefferson. Or Winston Churchill.Really? I'm surprised that you gave him a pass on the mangling of it to fit what he is saying, I mean it's the easiest strawman ever on a silverplater.
I was trolling, as was he. Nobody is dumb enough to think that's the actual quote and drurowin knows it.
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@joe.edwards said:
- Insurance covers half of the $3,800USD bills
You must have crappy insurance.
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@joe.edwards said:
Yeah, I'm financially stable enough that it didn't break my bank; it wasn't a fun hit to take though.
You should have skipped the CT. They usually just do that shit as a CYA so they don't get sued if you die.
Also: you didn't fill the pain meds??? WTF is wrong with you?
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@drurowin said:
So you guys don't give health care to people who are on the dole!
Healthcare yes, but things to pay for it no. Thus those bills get written off by the hospital (meaning put into higher prices for everyone else). The big issue is that if you are in the proper section of poor your choices are basically go for super expensive ER and it gets written off or go for preventitive and get it written off after paying what you could. Meaning for many they choose the ER way as then they don't have to try.
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@drurowin said:
So you guys don't give health care to people who are on the dole! Bravo! Way to get those dole roll numbers down!
So your theory to get people off of the dole is to give them more stuff while on the dole? What if we just password protect the dole?
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@HardwareGeek said:
The "good" news is that if you gash your head again this year, you'll only be out-of-pocket $760 (assuming 80% coverage after the deductible).
That's a rather simple assumption, unfortunately. Does anybody even have a real 80/20 plan any more? For example, my insurance company pushes back on any bills they get for me, so they only end up paying 50-75% of what the doctor asks. Then they have schedules for common things like doctor's visits, staples, stitches, whatever, so what I owe is often completely random, but definitely less than 20% of the total. For example, for something like Joe had, I probably would have paid something like $157.93 out-of-pocket. (Then consider that that would have gone onto my flex account, which itself involves tons of paperwork just to keep a bit of money away from my depraved government.)
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@drurowin said:
So you guys don't give health care to people who are on the dole! Bravo! Way to get those dole roll numbers down!
Actually, the unemployment numbers are sickening, plus most employees can just continue whatever insurance they had. Also, as we've already pointed out numerous times, they can still get health care, they just don't get it off the backs of working people. The real shame is a lot of people on Medicaid don't even qualify for "the dole", because they never worked in their lives.
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@boomzilla said:
@drurowin said:
Time-limit it, but what if someone on the dole who's receiving £100 a week has a child that takes sick? You're saying that they should just take the child to the ER, rack up £35,300 in medical bills, and just ignore them til the baliffs come round, instead of just providing them fucking health-care?So you guys don't give health care to people who are on the dole! Bravo! Way to get those dole roll numbers down!
So your theory to get people off of the dole is to give them more stuff while on the dole? What if we just password protect the dole?
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@locallunatic said:
The big issue is that if you are in the proper section of poor your choices are basically go for super expensive ER and it gets written off or go for preventitive and get it written off after paying what you could. Meaning for many they choose the ER way as then they don't have to try.
Of course, the people on Medicaid just go to the ER, too. Some fat, lazy cunt who's never worked a day in her life: "MAH DAUGHTER HAS HEADACHE. GIVE HER MEDICINE." So after the MRI the doctors tack on because: 1) it's free money for them; and 2) they don't want to get sued if the kid dies because this bitch forgot to mention the reason her kid has a headache is because her boyfriend hit the kid in the head with a two-by-four, the bill for taxpayers is $5k. And the woman walks out with a prescription for ibuprofen.
Then there's the fact that for a lot of this stuff, preventative care is usually just a waste of money (doesn't improve health in any measurable way.) Largely it's just a way to piss away money from hard-working people, and to build a permanent voting bloc of welfare-sucking parasites and parasitic doctors and hospitals.
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@morbiuswilters said:
That's a rather simple assumption, unfortunately. Does anybody even have a real 80/20 plan any more?
Yes. This year, our plan switched to high deductible with 80/20 after the deductible (taking into account their negotiated write off). Like joe.edwards, we have a health savings account as well as a flexible spending account. I've maxed both of those out, and combined with premiums, it's just a little bit more than what I paid last year, except I have the incentive of rolling over and possibly investing my HSA. And exhausting both my HSA and FSA would put me around the limit for annual out of pocket expenses. I say "around" because some of the FSA will go towards other stuff like glasses and possibly dental.
@morbiuswilters said:
Then consider that that would have gone onto my flex account, which itself involves tons of paperwork just to keep a bit of money away from my depraved government.
That's a bad provider, then. I have a debit card that I can use. Sometimes the charges aren't pre-approved, but then I just upload the pdf explanation of benefits from my insurance company and they check it off.
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@drurowin said:
Time-limit it, but what if someone on the dole who's receiving £100 a week has a child that takes sick?
Their kid would have coverage. Once again, why the fuck do you think you should be opining about things you are fucking clueless about?
@drurowin said:
You're saying that they should just take the child to the ER, rack up £35,300 in medical bills, and just ignore them til the baliffs come round, instead of just providing them fucking health-care?
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They're going to take their kid to the ER anyway and rack up those bills. It's just a question of whether hard-working people get ass-fucked up-front or after-the-fact.
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Baliffs? Look, we don't live in a fucking police state like you. I know it's hard to understand, but people here basically don't pay their medical bills. Hospitals will make a token effort to collect, then just write it off if the person can't pay. If they can pay, then they probably have insurance in the first place. And even if they don't, there are still plenty of ways to exploit your fellow man and weasel out of your debts in the good 'ol USA, so don't worry about them.
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@drurowin said:
Time-limit it, but what if someone on the dole who's receiving £100 a week has a child that takes sick? You're saying that they should just take the child to the ER, rack up £35,300 in medical bills, and just ignore them til the baliffs come round, instead of just providing them fucking health-care?
The hell? Do you guys still have debtor prisons? Fuck, emigrate to a sane country, like the US already. Er..wait, no.
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@morbiuswilters said:
preventative care is usually just a waste of money
Depends. For something like a flu shot for normal people it's a not needed thing cause they are "oh noes, I'll call in sick one day"; but for ER is free people with nothing better to do? Then hell yes it would be cheaper to just say "you are getting this".
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@locallunatic said:
Plus you can embed a virus that causes sterility in the flu jabs given to the welfare recipients.@morbiuswilters said:
preventative care is usually just a waste of money
Depends. For something like a flu shot for normal people it's a not needed thing cause they are "oh noes, I'll call in sick one day"; but for ER is free people with nothing better to do? Then hell yes it would be cheaper to just say "you are getting this".
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@boomzilla said:
Yes. This year, our plan switched to high deductible with 80/20 after the deductible (taking into account their negotiated write off).
Really? I'm surprised those are still legal under ObamaCare. I'm pretty sure they stopped being legal in Mass under RomneyCare.
@boomzilla said:
That's a bad provider, then. I have a debit card that I can use.
I do, too. It's ADP.
@boomzilla said:
Sometimes the charges aren't pre-approved, but then I just upload the pdf explanation of benefits from my insurance company and they check it off.
Unless I'm at CVS, none of my charges are. I seriously don't even know why they bother with this "approved charges" bullshit, because apparently the idiots can't tell that my medical doctor isn't a off-track betting parlor, even after I've gone there a dozen times.
Until very recently, I had to fill out an online form, print it out and mail it in. For pretty much every claim. As of a couple of months ago, I can do it all online. However, I still have to wait for the EOB to come out (my insurance company takes something like a month to settle it's goddamn accounts); navigate their shitty website so I can download the EOB PDF (assuming that shit isn't timing out--better do it at 1:00am because fewer people are online then); make sure the amounts match up to what I paid (often not the case because: I paid some in the office and was billed the rest; or the provider gives a discount for actually paying your bill on-time; or any another half-dozen reasons); then upload that shit.
Keep in mind, none of this is shit I'd do without the FSA. It's like "Bill for $4.32, spend 30 minutes fucking around trying to substantiate the claim for FSA or just pay it with my goddamn credit car". I started realizing it's a waste of time and money to use my FSA for any bill less than, like, $100. Which unfortunately is very few of my bills. So it ends up sucking dick.
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@drurowin said:
@locallunatic said:
Plus you can embed a virus that causes sterility in the flu jabs given to the welfare recipients.@morbiuswilters said:
preventative care is usually just a waste of money
Depends. For something like a flu shot for normal people it's a not needed thing cause they are "oh noes, I'll call in sick one day"; but for ER is free people with nothing better to do? Then hell yes it would be cheaper to just say "you are getting this".
Supervillian style plans often ignore those that are on the system but do try to get off, they do in fact exist even if they are rare (just are generally ignored as it doesn't fit the bash on setup that is common). If you are still fine applying it then go ahead and make that argument seriously, that could actually be interesting more than several yelling at you about your mistaken assumptions of how billing works in the US.
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@locallunatic said:
@morbiuswilters said:
preventative care is usually just a waste of money
Depends. For something like a flu shot for normal people it's a not needed thing cause they are "oh noes, I'll call in sick one day"; but for ER is free people with nothing better to do? Then hell yes it would be cheaper to just say "you are getting this".
It would be cheaper still to slash their benefits to what is minimally necessary (no more $600 /month of EBT so they can buy 20 bags of potato chips, 10 cases of Coke, and 50 frozen pizzas) then make them pick up trash and clean sidewalks if they want to get those benefits. Make collecting welfare more of a pain-in-the-ass than having an actual job and watch people go back to work. (Obviously this doesn't apply to the one-in-one-thousand people on welfare who are actually incapable of working. But the other 999 are just scamming the system.)
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@drurowin said:
Plus you can embed a virus that causes sterility in the flu jabs given to the welfare recipients.
Ha ha, I wish. No, the welfare parasites out-breed the hosts they've attached themselves to. That's why this country is dying, and will soon collapse utterly.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@locallunatic said:
Good lord, $600 a month in food benefit? In exchange for WHAT? Not fucking burning down Congress or some bullshit?@morbiuswilters said:
preventative care is usually just a waste of money
Depends. For something like a flu shot for normal people it's a not needed thing cause they are "oh noes, I'll call in sick one day"; but for ER is free people with nothing better to do? Then hell yes it would be cheaper to just say "you are getting this".
It would be cheaper still to slash their benefits to what is minimally necessary (no more $600 /month of EBT so they can buy 20 bags of potato chips, 10 cases of Coke, and 50 frozen pizzas) then make them pick up trash and clean sidewalks if they want to get those benefits. Make collecting welfare more of a pain-in-the-ass than having an actual job and watch people go back to work. (Obviously this doesn't apply to the one-in-one-thousand people on welfare who are actually incapable of working. But the other 999 are just scamming the system.)
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@morbiuswilters said:
I started realizing it's a waste of time and money to use my FSA for any bill less than, like, $100. Which unfortunately is very few of my bills. So it ends up sucking dick.
Well yeah, why do you think they encourage them if they didn't make money off of it by getting you to give up on most of what you put in it?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@boomzilla said:
Yes. This year, our plan switched to high deductible with 80/20 after the deductible (taking into account their negotiated write off).
Really? I'm surprised those are still legal under ObamaCare. I'm pretty sure they stopped being legal in Mass under RomneyCare.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where I'd willingly move to Mass.
@morbiuswilters said:
@boomzilla said:
That's a bad provider, then. I have a debit card that I can use.
I do, too. It's ADP.
They do my payroll, but our HSA/FSA stuff is handled by WageWorks.
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@boomzilla said:
@drurowin said:
Time-limit it, but what if someone on the dole who's receiving £100 a week has a child that takes sick? You're saying that they should just take the child to the ER, rack up £35,300 in medical bills, and just ignore them til the baliffs come round, instead of just providing them fucking health-care?
The hell? Do you guys still have debtor prisons? Fuck, emigrate to a sane country, like the US already. Er..wait, no.
Debtors' Prison In Las Vegas
At least they don't bury deadbeats in the desert anymore.
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@drurowin said:
Good lord, $600 a month in food benefit? In exchange for WHAT? Not fucking burning down Congress or some bullshit?
There are people that get more than that. But, yeah, not burning down Congress. And in some states you can even use the card at ATMs. Somebody did a study and found the cards were frequently used in ATMs in liquor stores and strip clubs.
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@joe.edwards said:
h) Police don't need guns.
Sadly, it seems durowin has some fellow travelers in the US:
@NH Union Leader said:
...
The event had people supporting the Mayors Against Illegal Guns movement, founded by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, reading the names of those "killed with guns" since the Dec. 14 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary outside their "No More Names" bus.Some of the loudest shouts came when a reader spoke the name of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects who was killed by police during a gunfight.
Guns don't kill people. Speedbumps (and their brothers) kill people.
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@Ronald said:
Debtors' Prison In Las Vegas
At least they don't bury deadbeats in the desert anymore.Since when is Nevada a part of the US? We nuked them more than Japan!
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Ronald said:
Debtors' Prison In Las Vegas
Since when is Nevada a part of the US? We nuked them more than Japan!
At least they don't bury deadbeats in the desert anymore.And they still won't leave!
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Ronald said:
Debtors' Prison In Las Vegas
At least they don't bury deadbeats in the desert anymore.Since when is Nevada a part of the US? We nuked them more than Japan!
Fool. Here is how it works: the purpose of all the other states is to breed old geezers that go lose their home equity in Las Vegas and Reno slot machines while thinking that they are real winners because the thousands of dollars they lost qualify them for a 10% discount at the buffet. They also get to look at the sagging tits of old tired cocktails waitresses and to go get bored to death listening to unfunny and barely intelligible comedians (such as George Wallace).
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@morbiuswilters said:
@joe.edwards said:
Yeah, I'm financially stable enough that it didn't break my bank; it wasn't a fun hit to take though.
You should have skipped the CT. They usually just do that shit as a CYA so they don't get sued if you die.
The CT was surprisingly cheap compared to the hospital bill. Also, I was kind of concerned about a concussion. I sustained the injury because I'd fainted and hit my head on the way down, so I wanted to make sure everything was OK up there.@morbiuswilters said:
Also: you didn't fill the pain meds??? WTF is wrong with you?
It wasn't the good shit.
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@Ronald said:
They also get to look at the sagging tits of old tired cocktails waitresses and to go get bored to death listening to unfunny and barely intelligible comedians (such as George Wallace).
Maybe they thought they were going to see the real George Wallace.
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@joe.edwards said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Also: you didn't fill the pain meds??? WTF is wrong with you?
It wasn't the good shit.I don't understand doctors who give you a prescription for, say, 800mg ibuprofen and the pharmacy that is willing to fill it. WTF...I have a bottle full of smaller pills, I'm not going to waste time and money buying some horse pills for OTC medicine.
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@joe.edwards said:
Also, I was kind of concerned about a concussion. I sustained the injury because I'd fainted and hit my head on the way down, so I wanted to make sure everything was OK up there.
Meh, if you weren't having memory loss and ringing in your ears, you didn't have a concussion. And even if you did, for 99% of concussions they're just going to send you home to sleep it off.
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@boomzilla said:
@joe.edwards said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Also: you didn't fill the pain meds??? WTF is wrong with you?
It wasn't the good shit.I don't understand doctors who give you a prescription for, say, 800mg ibuprofen and the pharmacy that is willing to fill it. WTF...I have a bottle full of smaller pills, I'm not going to waste time and money buying some horse pills for OTC medicine.
They probably have lots of customers who, instead of spending $5 on a massive bottle of OTC NSAIDS, can just get the script filled and charge that shit to the taxpayer.
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That's it. I'm out of here until TDWTF is about IT again. Or at least about video games, My Little Pony, and how much Microsoft sucks.
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@MiffTheFox said:
That's it. I'm out of here until TDWTF is about IT again. Or at least about video games, My Little Pony, and how much Microsoft sucks.
Was it ever about the IT?
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@drurowin said:
Because of how people talk about your "health care crisis", I was under the assumption that your hospitals in America were cash-up-front affairs.
Pro-tip: a lot of people talk out their ass. Especially Europeans who want to make the US look bad.
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@MiffTheFox said:
That's it. I'm out of here until TDWTF is about IT again. Or at least about video games, My Little Pony, and how much Microsoft sucks.
If MLP had more guns I might watch.
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@boomzilla said:
@MiffTheFox said:
That's it. I'm out of here until TDWTF is about IT again. Or at least about video games, My Little Pony, and how much Microsoft sucks.
If MLP had more guns I might watch.
MLP doesn't have enough abortions of gay-married Muslim fetuses for my liking.
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@morbiuswilters said:
MLP doesn't have enough abortions of gay-married Muslim fetuses for my liking.
Or was that gay-marriages of aborted fetuses (who waterboarded terrorists before they were aborted) being performed by a wise Latina Supreme Court justice who immigrated into the country illegally and who is taking a shit on the Koran? I can't keep those straight..
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@morbiuswilters said:
@drurowin said:
Time-limit it, but what if someone on the dole who's receiving £100 a week has a child that takes sick?
Their kid would have coverage.
In California (the only place I have experience), the amount paid by unemployment insurance is low enough to qualify for Healthy Families, which is a state program for low income children. The name is deceptive, because it's only for kids, not for the entire family; California apparently does not consider parents to be part of the family. Unemployment insurance also pays little enough to qualify for food stamps (if you have $0 in savings). However, it pays IIRC about $12/month too much to qualify for health care for the parent(s).This assumes you formerly had a real, non-minimum-wage job, so that you receive the maximum amount possible from unemployment insurance, which is maybe 20-25% of what you made when you had that real job. Of course, if you had a low-paying job to start with, you'd get less from unemployment insurance, so you would qualify for free health care. Yeah, that makes sense.
@morbiuswilters said:
plus most employees can just continue whatever insurance they had.
This is called COBRA, because it bites. It's outrageously expensive. It would have cost $1400 per month, not counting co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs, just in case somebody in my family might get sick. I couldn't afford that when I was working a contract job with no benefits, much less when I was on unemployment.
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@joe.edwards said:
My employer gives me a high deductible plan and a Health Savings Account which they contribute to. The cool thing about this setup is that if I somehow manage to stay out of the hospital, I get to keep the money that went into the HSA versus just losing it to the insurance company.
This sounds just like my employer's plan. This plan allegedly saves the employees money, because
($highDeductablePremium + $highDeductableOutOfPocketCost - $employerHsaContribution) < ($ordinaryPlanPremium + $ordinaryPlanOutOfPocketCost)
for any value of$totalMedicalExpenses.It definitely saves money for the employer, insurance company and some employees, because for some employees
$highDeductableOutOfPocketCost > $availableFunds
for any value of$totalMedicalExpenses; therefore,$totalMedicalExpensesis forced to0.0, regardless of$severityOfIllness.
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@HardwareGeek said:
In California (the only place I have experience), the amount paid by unemployment insurance is low enough to qualify for Healthy Families, which is a state program for low income children.
There are a variety of programs at the Federal level that cover kids whose deadbeat parents can't pay for health care. I don't think it's at all possible for a child in the US to not have full coverage of some variety.
@HardwareGeek said:
Unemployment insurance also pays little enough to qualify for food stamps (if you have $0 in savings).
Who's even going to bother verifying your savings? There are people on Medicaid and food stamps who have a million in assets and $200k /year in income.
@HardwareGeek said:
Of course, if you had a low-paying job to start with, you'd get less from unemployment insurance, so you would qualify for free health care. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'd rather not have anybody getting Medicaid..
@HardwareGeek said:
It's outrageously expensive. It would have cost $1400 per month, not counting co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs, just in case somebody in my family might get sick.
That's how much your health insurance costs for your employer. Why would it be even cheaper for you? You could also just opt for a cheap "major medical" plan, if COBRA was too much.@HardwareGeek said:
Unemployment insurance also pays little enough to qualify for food stamps (if you have $0 in savings).
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@HardwareGeek said:
It definitely saves money for the employer, insurance company and some employees, because for some employees
$highDeductableOutOfPocketCost > $availableFunds
for any value of$totalMedicalExpenses; therefore,$totalMedicalExpensesis forced to0.0, regardless of$severityOfIllness.How bad is your deductible if you can't even afford it? Besides which, for any serious illness you can still just go to the damn doctor and they will bill you later.
I have a PPO. It's a really good PPO, but I'd prefer it if I had the option to just get the hundreds per-month my employer was spending on it, and buy my own high-deductible, major-medical-only plan. I'd just pay for any routine visits out-of-pocket and be done with it, and I'd save money. But instead my only option is this PPO which probably costs $700 /month for one person.
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@blakeyrat said:
@drurowin said:
Pfft, when they try, Europeans can make the US look bad.Because of how people talk about your "health care crisis", I was under the assumption that your hospitals in America were cash-up-front affairs.
Pro-tip: a lot of people talk out their ass. Especially Europeans who want to make the US look bad.
@Wikipedia said:
On June 11, 1964, shortly after 9 o'clock, Seifert approached the schoolyard of the Catholic elementary school located at Volkhovener Weg 209-211, armed with a self-made flamethrower, a lance and a mace...
America still hasn't even come close to that.
