Ridges on virtual keyboards on tablets



  • @Adanine said:

    The Lotus Notes Workspace
    Bah, I just looked at that for more then a glance. Running the Workspace on a decent resolution makes it a lot less cluttered-looking, and a lot more friendly.



  • @Adanine said:

    ...various games within Lotus Notes.

    Zuh? Why?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    I expect them to have 100% OS feature support, regardless of when the feature was added to the OS. I make some allowances for OS features that came about after the software was first published, but that is not the case here.

    Yeah, especially one as basic as fucking zooming.

    Zooming in Windows isn't really a "basic" feature since Windows apps were (and to the best of my knowledge continue to be) exclusively raster-based. There's no easy way to scale up somebody else's perfectly laid out window to 150% of it's size without either introducing severe layout bugs or severe interpolation blur. Then again, considering that the solution people have found to high-DPI monitors was to just turn down the resolution below native, maybe interpolation blur would have been a better answer.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    Zooming in Windows isn't really a "basic" feature since Windows apps were (and to the best of my knowledge continue to be) exclusively raster-based. There's no easy way to scale up somebody else's perfectly laid out window to 150% of it's size without either introducing severe layout bugs or severe interpolation blur. Then again, considering that the solution people have found to high-DPI monitors was to just turn down the resolution below native, maybe interpolation blur would have been a better answer.

    "It's slightly challenging, therefore it's ok they didn't do it!!!" - an idiot

    Boo hoo baby. You might have to actually do work to produce a good product. Nobody said this would be easy going in.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @MiffTheFox said:
    Zooming in Windows isn't really a "basic" feature since Windows apps were (and to the best of my knowledge continue to be) exclusively raster-based. There's no easy way to scale up somebody else's perfectly laid out window to 150% of it's size without either introducing severe layout bugs or severe interpolation blur. Then again, considering that the solution people have found to high-DPI monitors was to just turn down the resolution below native, maybe interpolation blur would have been a better answer.

    "It's slightly challenging, therefore it's ok they didn't do it!!!" - an idiot

    Boo hoo baby. You might have to actually do work to produce a good product. Nobody said this would be easy going in.

    Um.... I never said they shouldn't do it, I just said that it's not like how Morbs said that they had to fuck up real bad to not get zooming right.



  • @Adanine said:

    So they can at least get one thing right
     

    Even a stopped clock...



  • @blakeyrat said:

    BTW I uninstalled Windows 8 and put Windows 7 on my laptop because I foolishly believed Chrome's inability to scale its UI to 150% was a Windows 8 bug-- turns out no! It's a Chrome bug! It does the same broken shit in Windows 7!
    Try this: right-click the shortcut, Properties, Compatibility tab, check "Disable DPI scaling" (btw, this feature has been available since Vista, and I'm really surprised that there are still programs that aren't marked as dpiAware 6 years later).



  • @ender said:

    Try this: right-click the shortcut, Properties, Compatibility tab, check "Disable DPI scaling"

    Then what happens?

    I *want* DPI scaling. Why would I disable it? What I don't want is Chrome ignoring my DPI scaling setting and doing it's own bullshit.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    There's no easy way to scale up somebody else's perfectly laid out window to 150% of it's size without either introducing severe layout bugs or severe interpolation blur. Then again, considering that the solution people have found to high-DPI monitors was to just turn down the resolution below native, maybe interpolation blur would have been a better answer.

    The thing that baffles me is how much better the typical non-DPI-aware Windows application looks when running on a typical 1920x1080 monitor turned down to 1280x720 than it does if you set the monitor native and let Windows do its own raster scaling. Given that the scaling in both cases is 150%, and given the power of modern GPUs, I truly cannot understand why the shitty little chips built into the monitors do so much better at this.

    And it's not just an illusion caused by a blurry window overlaying a sharper background either. I've put two identical workstations side by side, one set to 1920x1080 with a maximized non-DPI-aware application window filling the screen, and the other set to 1280x720 with the same application maximized; the lower-res screen looks way less blurry.

    If Windows actually managed to do raster scaling as well as the screens do, there would be very little to complain about.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I want DPI scaling. Why would I disable it? What I don't want is Chrome ignoring my DPI scaling setting and doing it's own bullshit.
    That checkbox stops Windows from lying to the program about DPI (basically, it makes the program behave as if it was dpiAware=true, which makes the scaling work like in XP and older; without that checkbox, and without dpiAware=true in manifest, Windows will tell the program that it's running in 96DPI mode, then scale the content of the window before presenting it).

    It's the difference between this:

    and this:
    .



  • I still don't get how that fixes the problem.

    The problem, to re-state, is that Chrome won't scale 125% or 150%, it will only scale to 100% or 200%-- nothing else. (In addition, it treats "150%" as "200%".)

    You're just talking about what algorithm Windows uses to do the smoothing. Well great, but your screenshot still shows Chrome at 200% (I think at least), when I want it at 150%.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Well great, but your screenshot still shows Chrome at 200% (I think at least), when I want it at 150%.
    It shows it at 150%.



  • @ender said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Well great, but your screenshot still shows Chrome at 200% (I think at least), when I want it at 150%.
    It shows it at 150%.

    But the font on both of your screenshots is the same size, so... I am still lost. What does toggling that switch actually do?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    But the font on both of your screenshots is the same size, so... I am still lost. What does toggling that switch actually do?

    It doesn't appear to solve your problem with Chrome, but the second screenshot does appear to have less blur around the text (so it does change how things are rendered slightly).



  • @locallunatic said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    But the font on both of your screenshots is the same size, so... I am still lost. What does toggling that switch actually do?

    It doesn't appear to solve your problem with Chrome, but the second screenshot does appear to have less blur around the text (so it does change how things are rendered slightly).

    I'm more confused as to how Chrome is displaying at 150% at all. Because on my laptop, it don't-- it treats 150% as 200%.

    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.

    And I'm thirdly confused as to how both screenshots posted there could have the same font size; wouldn't one of them have to be 200% and not 150%?



  • @locallunatic said:

    It doesn't appear to solve your problem with Chrome, but the second screenshot does appear to have less blur around the text (so it does change how things are rendered slightly).
    That's exactly what it does (Chrome for some reason isn't marked as DPI-aware, and will be rendered at 96DPI when Vista and newer are set to 126% or higher, then the result will be resized to match the DPI Windows uses).
    @blakeyrat said:
    I'm more confused as to how Chrome is displaying at 150% at all. Because on my laptop, it don't-- it treats 150% as 200%.
    Does it? These two images show Chrome at 200%: DPI scaling disabled, DPI scaling enabled. Notice that both images use larger fonts than the 150% images above.
    @blakeyrat said:
    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.
    It stops Windows from pretending it's running at 96DPI (100%) and scaling it afterwards when an application isn't marked as dpiAware.
    @blakeyrat said:
    And I'm thirdly confused as to how both screenshots posted there could have the same font size; wouldn't one of them have to be 200% and not 150%?
    Why? In the first case, the window is rendered as if Windows was set to 100%, then scaled to 150% afterwards. In the second case, the window is rendered at 150% (which scales all the fonts appropriately), and displayed as-is.



  • @ender said:

    Does it? These two images show Chrome at 200%: DPI scaling disabled, DPI scaling enabled. Notice that both images use larger fonts than the 150% images above.

    What version are you running? Maybe they've finally fixed it. I haven't updated my laptop in awhile.

    @ender said:

    Why? In the first case, the window is rendered as if Windows was set to 100%, then scaled to 150% afterwards. In the second case, the window is rendered at 150% (which scales all the fonts appropriately), and displayed as-is.

    My confusion was that, as of a few weeks ago, it was impossible to get Chrome to scale itself to 150% for love nor money. Maybe that's possible now. I don't know.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What version are you running?
    27.0.1453.116 m (whatever was current a few hours ago, when I installed it in this VM)



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.

    Have a stiff drink, then read this. Warning: usability triggers.



  • @locallunatic said:

    the second screenshot does appear to have less blur around the text
     

    That's a mighty careful description of "night and day difference".


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @flabdablet said:

    Warning: usability triggers.

    LOL. I hadn't associated blakey with tumblr social justice weenies, so thanks for that.



  • @flabdablet said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.

    Have a stiff drink, then read this. Warning: usability triggers.

    Jesus.



  • @flabdablet said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.

    Have a stiff drink, then read this. Warning: usability triggers.

     

    The information on that page is indeed a good argument for people to turn to or from alcohol and/or religion.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @flabdablet said:
    @blakeyrat said:
    I'm secondarily confused as to what that setting on the app shortcut does.

    Have a stiff drink, then read this. Warning: usability triggers.

    Jesus.

    This, at least, is something most Linux desktop environments get right:

    XFCE Appearance dialog

    You can change all the settings in that dialog to anything you like, and for the most part, things Just Work. The worst thing I've ever seen happen from cranking the DPI way way up is that I might occasionally need to resize a dialog box before I can see all the controls inside it; non-resizable dialogs are fortunately very rare.



  • @flabdablet said:

    The worst thing I've ever seen happen from cranking the DPI way way up is that I might occasionally need to resize a dialog box before I can see all the controls inside it;
     

    Shouldn't that be the other way around? I.e. tiny controls in huge windows? If you crank up the OS dpi, I expect everything to get bigger, except those things that don't respect the setting, and thus remain 1:1 mapped to screen pixels.



  • @dhromed said:

    If you crank up the OS dpi, I expect everything to get bigger, except those things that don't respect the setting, and thus remain 1:1 mapped to screen pixels.

    Exactly. It's the overall dialog box sizes that sometimes remain 1:1 mapped to pixels, so all the properly scaled controls inside the boxes get too big to fit. But because even applications that make this mistake don't usually also stop you resizing their dialogs, it's usually both not too hard to work around this and obvious that resizing the box is a way to do it - unless most of your experience is with Windows, where resizable dialogs are the exception.



  • @flabdablet said:

    It's the overall dialog box sizes that sometimes remain 1:1 mapped to pixels, so all the properly scaled controls inside the boxes get too big to fit.
     

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok.

    [themoreyouknow.gif]

     


Log in to reply