KosherSwitch



  • Seriously, WTF is wrong with jew people?

    http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/tech/how



  • In a previous job, I cooked for a kosher banquet. I wasn't allowed to turn on a stove/oven/fryer/anything else that cooked food, because I might have an impure thought while doing it. Only the Rabbi could turn stuff on.



  • I sort of get at least some of the kosher dietary laws, as I'm pretty sure that they were made long before refridgeration.

    However, this doesn't really get around the whole no-work-on-the-sabbath rule. You are still moving a switch/lever; it's just indirectly turning the light on/off.

    Then again, you open/close a door knob to leave your house too; are they going to make an indirect thingamabob for that too?

    What's next? A thingy to un/zip your pants so you can pee?

    Where does one draw the line?

     



  • Given the things that strict Jews do to justify their actions on their sabbath, its not surprising that this light switch exists. Not being Jewish I can't attest to all their behaviors but I believe it comes about from strict religious interpretations clashing with modern society and not wanting to do with out modern conveniences. I've seen things like whole blocks of suburbs being declared in a manner to allow jews to move about freely on the sabbath while not conflicting with their beliefs (again, I'm not jewish so I can't explain the details or the rationalizations)


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    [quote user="The Analogy"]

    • There is a candle burning next to a closed window, and a strong wind blowing outside. Certainly, opening the window on Shabbat is forbidden, since the candle will be extinguished immediately.
    • There is a device that can determine if there’s no wind currently blowing, and it can predict with 100% accuracy that no wind will be blowing for at least the next ~5 seconds. It lights up with a green light when it has determined this to be true.
    • On Shabbat, a person opens/closes the window while the device’s indicator is green, knowing that a wind will ultimately blow and succeed in extinguishing the candle.
    • More accurately: A person opens/closes the window before the wind is created, before the candle is placed by the window, at a time when the device’s indicator is green, knowing that sometimes gusts of wind hit the candle [its future location] and sometimes they miss, and even when they do strike the candle, sometimes they’re able to extinguish it, but other times they do not… Welcome to KosherSwitch®.
    [/quote] [quote user="Saturday Night Live"] Announcer: A message from John W. Heyward, President of the Heyward Foundation.

    John W. Heyward: Hello. I'm a very wealthy man. I'm worth billions, and always have been. But I haven't always been a man with a conscience. Time was, I thought my money was all I needed to be happy. But all that changed one day when I came across.. [ holds up Bible ] ..this book. The Bible</font>. And I saw where it said.. [ reads passage ] .."It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven</font>." That passage changed my life. It moved me to start putting my riches towards a worthy cause. And that's why I established the Heyward Foundation. The Heyward Foundation, For The Development Of A Way To Make It Easy For A Camel To Pass Through a Needle's Eyes. I'm not going to Hell if my billions have anything to say about it! And I think they do. Let me show you..

    [ enters a laboratory filled with scientists and camels ]

    We're doing God's work</font> here at the Heyward Foundation. First, scores of desperate Third World children brought me all these camels. And then I found all these cancer</font> researchers, made them stop whatever it was they were doing, and devote their energies to trying to force these camels through needles, just like it says in the Bible</font>. I know it sounds impossible, but we have made a lot of progress. We started small. We tried to cram a horse through a drinking</font> straw. The result was pretty ugly and completely unsuccessful. But we learned a lot! [ stands in front of a big glass full of a strange-colored liquid ] Next, we tried pureeing a camel into a thin liquid, then pouring the camel through the eye of a needle. Sure enough, the liquid camel will pass through the needle. But.. we think that might be cheating. We've got our lawyers looking into it. But a liquid camel's only part of it. I've also invested millions of dollars from my tobacco</font> and pornography enterprises to build very large needles and very small camels. [ stands in front of a large needle and a miniature camel ] Unless I've completely missed the message of the Bible, somewhere in here is my ticket to Heaven.

    Scientist: [ feeding miniature camel ] This is a new batch, Mr. Heyward! Aren't they cute?

    John W. Heyward: They're cute.. just not small enough. Have them destroyed. [ addresses the camera again ] So, we're working toward a beautiful future here at the Heyward Foundation. We dream of a day when camels pass willy-nilly through the eyes of needles, while billionaire industrialists like myself can look forward to an eternity spent in the pure white light of Heaven. Right, fellas?

    Scientists: Yeah!

    John W. Heyward: And, if we can't get the camel through the needle, we have another plan. We're prepared</font> to spend millions to get that part taken out of the Bible. Don't worry about me!

    Announcer: [ appears as SUPER ] The Heyward Foundation. Working really hard to get Mr. Heyward into Heaven. [/quote]


  • If I end up going to Hell because I was productive at the wrong times of year, then I'll happily shake hands with the devil.


    Seriously, I'm a very religious person, but I have a very hard time believing an omnipotent being gives half a fuck when I do my work.



  • @snoofle said:

    What's next? A thingy to un/zip your pants so you can pee?

    Where does one draw the line?

    Don't forget the small spoon .. you need the small spoon.



  • @snoofle said:

    Then again, you open/close a door knob to leave your house too; are they going to make an indirect thingamabob for that too?

     

    Actually, turning the knob is not forbidden.  Whether using an electric switch is forbidden or not is controversial -- it depends whether one believes it is equivalent to igniting a fire (which is forbidden, along with other 38 specific activities).

     



  • @rakdver said:

    @snoofle said:

    Then again, you open/close a door knob to leave your house too; are they going to make an indirect thingamabob for that too?

     

    Actually, turning the knob is not forbidden.  Whether using an electric switch is forbidden or not is controversial -- it depends whether one believes it is equivalent to igniting a fire (which is forbidden, along with other 38 specific activities).

     

    Fair enough.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @rakdver said:

    Whether using an electric switch is forbidden or not is controversial -- it depends whether one believes it is equivalent to igniting a fire

    I don't see any connection between these two activities. More alarming is that "extinguishing a fire is forbidden even when great property damage will result" [1].

    Is it me, or are they adhering to the letter of the law without consideration of its intent?



  • Jared Diamond has an interesting point about religion in his latest book, The World Until Yesterday.

    He says the onerous restrictions for members of a religion are there to establish a connection in an era before civilization made it possible to talk to strangers without wanting to kill them.

    If someone you've never seen before comes to you claiming that they follow a religion and won't kill you and steal your food, how do you know you can trust them? Well, if they actually chopped part of their dick off, that's a pretty good indicator that they're serious about it and weren't just lying to get your guard down. Similarly, if you let your house burn down because your religion's restrictions say you should, people are going to know you're serious about membership and not just fucking around.

    And that was pretty damned important in an era where any random stranger you met was just as likely to kill you as pass you by.

    Now you can all go back to thinking I'm dumb.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    If someone you've never seen before comes to you claiming that they follow a religion and won't kill you and steal your food, how do you know you can trust them? Well, if they actually chopped part of their dick off, that's a pretty good indicator that they're serious about it and weren't just lying to get your guard down. Similarly, if you let your house burn down because your religion's restrictions say you should, people are going to know you're serious about membership and not just fucking around.

    So you're saying they function as a shibboleth (a word which, incidentally, came from the same group of people).

    I read also that the clothing of medieval noblewomen served to prevent lower classes from imitating higher classes because they require finesse to move properly in.



  • Looks like a way for Jews to be pedantic dickweeds and claim they deserve heaven because "technically" they didn't violate the law.

    Religious pedantic dickweeds. They'd fit right in here at TDWTF.



  • Yep. The Lord God got irritated with them over that a couple of thousand years ago, and told them as much. The Pharisees weren't real happy with that Jesus guy, the Messiah the Jewish prophets had been warning them was coming for--oh, 700 years or so. He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and whitewashed tombs full of bones. Told 'em they were putting their own made-up little rules ahead of the things He wanted, like justice, and mercy, and treating others the way they wanted to be treated. He had only given them 10 simple rules, but they wouldn't even follow those.

    The Pharisees got totally outraged at the idea that the Jewish people might stop listening to them and follow Jesus (aka God) instead, so they arranged to have him killed. That worked...for about three days...



  • And God, being all powerful could have made a much more lasting impression perhaps if he got resurrected while people were watching. I mean, why wait three days? Just die on the cross, let people check then lift your head up, yell out "PSYCH! Just kidding!" and dance a jig on the cross before making the nails dissolve and stepping down and walking home after grabbing another dinner at Pilots house.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    So you're saying they function as a shibboleth (a word which, incidentally, came from the same group of people).

    No, because a shibboleth requires no effort on the person's part, they just have to be born into the right language group.

    Letting your house burn down, or tithing 10% of your income, or cutting off bits of your body due to your beliefs is a sacrifice to prove your dedication to the cause. Having the right accent is just an accident of birth. Totally different.



  • @KattMan said:

    And God, being all powerful could have made a much more lasting impression perhaps if he got resurrected while people were watching. I mean, why wait three days? Just die on the cross, let people check then lift your head up, yell out "PSYCH! Just kidding!" and dance a jig on the cross before making the nails dissolve and stepping down and walking home after grabbing another dinner at Pilots house.
     

    Must have made a pretty lasting impression if we're still talking about it 2000 years later.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @KattMan said:

    And God, being all powerful could have made a much more lasting impression perhaps if he got resurrected while people were watching. I mean, why wait three days? Just die on the cross, let people check then lift your head up, yell out "PSYCH! Just kidding!" and dance a jig on the cross before making the nails dissolve and stepping down and walking home after grabbing another dinner at Pilots house.
    Reminds me of something I saw on some humour site the other day. If Jesus had, say, been born in France in 1760 and executed at the age of 33 (as he was alleged to have done,) would Christians now be wearing guillotines round their necks? What sign would priests use - a chopping motion?



    The resurrection, had it have been witnessed, would have been a bit more spectacular, certainly...



  • @KattMan said:

    And God, being all powerful could have made a much more lasting impression perhaps if he got resurrected while people were watching. I mean, why wait three days?
     

    Something to do with the people back then believing that the spirit hung around the body for three days before it finally left. So after that amount of time, they were convinced the person was well and truly dead.

    Oh, the Pharisees had the "show us" thing down, too. "You claim you're Messiah? Jump down off that cross! Then we'll believe you." Except, of course, they wouldn't have believed. They'd have just tried to kill Him some more. He knew it, they knew it.

    He didn't hobnob with Pilate. He tended to hang out with the prostitutes, and the tax collectors, and other such lowlifes. His followers took a bunch of flak for it, too. "Why does your teacher eat with such...scum?"

    I'd say He left a pretty lasting impression, all things considered. ;-)



  • @mott555 said:

    @KattMan said:

    And God, being all powerful could have made a much more lasting impression perhaps if he got resurrected while people were watching. I mean, why wait three days? Just die on the cross, let people check then lift your head up, yell out "PSYCH! Just kidding!" and dance a jig on the cross before making the nails dissolve and stepping down and walking home after grabbing another dinner at Pilots house.
     

    Must have made a pretty lasting impression if we're still talking about it 2000 years later.

    Great PR firms do work miracles. Especially when it was, "listen or be put to death"



  •  @snoofle said:

    I sort of get at least some of the kosher dietary laws, as I'm pretty sure that they were made long before refridgeration.

    However, this doesn't really get around the whole no-work-on-the-sabbath rule. You are still moving a switch/lever; it's just indirectly turning the light on/off.

    Then again, you open/close a door knob to leave your house too; are they going to make an indirect thingamabob for that too?

    What's next? A thingy to un/zip your pants so you can pee?

    Where does one draw the line?

     

    From the wikipedia article on prohibited actions.

    From this, some authorities derive that it is prohibited to use
    electricity because, by turning on a switch, a circuit is completed and
    thus "built." (See "igniting a fire" below.)

    Flipping a switch isn't work. The "work" that they describe involves creative work, since G-d rested from creating. Then, building was considered creating, and they had to define what building was. Since G-d's work was completed on the sabbath, building is only creative work if the building is complete. Since connecting a circuit, "completes", and they are super-literal observers, "completing a circuit" is "completing a building".

     

    This kosher switch avoids "creative work" by not actually changing the switch by direct cause of use. It's like removing an obstruction from a robot that builds a building. You didn't build the building, therefore, you didn't do creative work. The robot did the creative work.

    On sabbath days, the switch has two states, displayed by a green/red light. When green, the AI isn't checking to see if it's obstructed. When red, the AI checks to see if it's obstructed. If it is not obstructed, it changes the real switch to On, if it is obstructed, it changes the real switch to Off. To further obfuscate the results, a random gate occurs before and after the check for obstruction. If the random number clears, it checks for obstruction. If the second random number clears, it performs the operation.

    Thus, you can move the lever, and some random time later, by random results, the operation will be completed on it's own.

    For a coding analogy, it's essentially like removing or placing a lock on a background worker thread. Then putting a random chance gate before the waitonevent and after the waitforevent before the operation.

     

    ...

    I don't know what to say...

     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    or having your parents cutting off bits of your body due to your their beliefs
    FTFY. Let the discussion about female genital mutilation and forced marriages commence...



  • @blakeyrat said:

    cutting off bits of your body due to your beliefs

    I AM MISSING PART OF MY DICK

    DO YOU THINK I WOULD CUT PART OF MY DICK OFF



  • @xaade said:

    You didn't build the building, therefore, you didn't do creative work. The robot did the creative work.

    I think that using that sort of pedantic dickweedery to get around your god's law is just as much of a sin as breaking the law. Or to put it another way, what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law *instead of* the spirit of the law?

    My limited reading of the relevant laws does, however, make me feel like the laws were not written by a god but by a bunch of men whose goal was controlling a population. Perhaps that is why the rules are insane? Not allowed to water plants on one day out of seven? Good luck in a drought. Not allowed to put your burning house out? Good luck finding somewhere to live tonight.

    A mad idea - perhaps the pedantic dickweedery of devices like the kosher light switch are a response by people who know their laws are insane but who still want to follow the religion behind them?



  • @mott555 said:

    Looks like a way for Jews to be pedantic dickweeds and claim they deserve heaven because "technically" they didn't violate the law.

    Religious pedantic dickweeds. They'd fit right in here at TDWTF.

    I'm not sure the Jews actually buy into that heaven/hell crap... I've always associated it mostly with Protestantism. Even Catholic theology hedges and dithers quite a bit on this ("yes, these places exist, but you're probably going somewhere else").



  • @havokk said:

    what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law?
     

    It's a special kind of hypocrisy for spiritual people to adhere to the letter of their spiritual law.

    @havokk said:

    make me feel like the laws were not written by a god

    I have some news for you.

     



  • @rakdver said:

    Whether using an electric switch is forbidden or not is controversial -- it depends whether one believes it is equivalent to igniting a fire

    I have some news for you, too.



  • I've read a historical paper about demise of ancient Judaic settlement (if I remember correctly, of Essenes sect). Basically, they've been all sick with parasites, because they didn't want to walk out to take a dump on Sabbath, and also they didn't change water in their cleansing pools often enough. So their adherence to the ritual cleanliness caused their actual uncleanliness.



  • @havokk said:

    I think that using that sort of pedantic dickweedery to get around your god's law is just as much of a sin as breaking the law. Or to put it another way, what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law?

    See also: Every other organized religion ever.



  • @snoofle said:

    this doesn't really get around the whole no-work-on-the-sabbath rule. You are still moving a switch/lever;

    As I understand it, the applicable rules work like this: Making fires counts as work; electric sparks count as fires; making or breaking an electric circuit involves the possibility of causing a spark. The Kosher Switch claims to give the user a plausible causal disconnect between the act of operating the lever and the subsequent making or breaking of the circuit.

    @snoofle said:

    Where does one draw the line?

    That's been the central question driving rabbinical thought and discussion for some thousands of years.



  • @havokk said:

    I think that using that sort of pedantic dickweedery to get around your god's law is just as much of a sin as breaking the law. Or to put it another way, what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law?

    A more sympathetic take on it is that this is a religion where the Word is central, which means that the letter of the law is the spirit of the law, which makes relentless hair-splitting rules-lawyering a deeply religious act.



  • @flabdablet said:

    @havokk said:
    I think that using that sort of pedantic dickweedery to get around your god's law is just as much of a sin as breaking the law. Or to put it another way, what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law?

    A more sympathetic take on it is that this is a religion where the Word is central, which means that the letter of the law is the spirit of the law, which makes relentless hair-splitting rules-lawyering a deeply religious act.

    So suddenly God is Good becomes God is Lawful?



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    @flabdablet said:
    @havokk said:
    I think that using that sort of pedantic dickweedery to get around your god's law is just as much of a sin as breaking the law. Or to put it another way, what sort of respect is a person showing their religion by obeying the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law?

    A more sympathetic take on it is that this is a religion where the Word is central, which means that the letter of the law is the spirit of the law, which makes relentless hair-splitting rules-lawyering a deeply religious act.

    So suddenly God is Good becomes God is Lawful?

    God is Lawful Good? That explains a lot.



  • @PJH said:

    executed at the age of 33 (as he was alleged to have done,)

    @Neil said:
    Yeah but I really think I should lay this one on you, man, that's a really negative way to kill yourself, you know, like, I've tried it, hundreds of times. There's no way you can hammer in the last nail.



  • @flabdablet said:

    which makes relentless hair-splitting rules-lawyering a deeply religious act.

    Could there be a religion better designed for TDWTF readers?



  • @flabdablet said:

    As I understand it, the applicable rules work like this: Making fires counts as work; electric sparks count as fires; making or breaking an electric circuit involves the possibility of causing a spark.

    So why not just use a spark-free switch? Just use a solid-state relay or somesuch.

    Or just leave the circuit completed all the time, but let only a few microamps through when the lamp is not supposed to be shining.



  • @bridget99 said:

    I'm not sure the Jews actually buy into that heaven/hell crap... I've always associated it mostly with Protestantism. Even Catholic theology hedges and dithers quite a bit on this ("yes, these places exist, but you're probably going somewhere else").

    Knowing both the Lutheran and the Catholic church quite well, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I think you're confusing Protestantism with Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism.



  • @bridget99 said:

    I'm not sure the Jews actually buy into that heaven/hell crap... I've always associated it mostly with Protestantism. Even Catholic theology hedges and dithers quite a bit on this ("yes, these places exist, but you're probably going somewhere else").

    Yeah....no. As a Catholic, hell is very real and is a strong possibility for any human. It's the reason for the sacrament of reconciliation (confession).

    I'm curious to know where you got the impression you got here. As I understand it (I'm too young to have witnessed it firsthand), we (as the Church) had sort of an explosion of Kumbaya and felt banners and lukewarm homilies and bad theology, seemingly surrounding Vatican II, but actual solid Catholic theology was never iffy on this point.



  • A thread about how an obscure religious belief adhered to by luddites results in the creation of a Rube Goldberg-esque device to get around said belief... is this what TDWTF has come to?

    I'm all for giving religion the respect that it's due (hint: none), but if we start posting religion-relate WTFs, we'll be here forever.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    So suddenly God is Good becomes God is Lawful?

    God is Lawful is actually the older idea, and it wasn't sudden, but basically yes.



  • @boh said:

    So why not ...

    Because reasons. Also, Wikipedia.



  • @The_Assimilator said:

    if we start posting religion-relate WTFs, we'll be here forever.

    You say that like you think it's a bad thing.



  • @mott555 said:

    Looks like a way for Jews to be pedantic dickweeds and claim they deserve heaven because "technically" they didn't violate the law.

    Religious pedantic dickweeds. They'd fit right in here at TDWTF.

    Actually, Jews believe that all non-Jews will go to heaven if they follow only the seven basic Noahide laws: Prohibition of Idolatry, Murder, Theft, Sexual immorality, Blasphemy, eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive and the requirement to establish courts of law. So if you don't do any of those things, as far as Jews are concerned you can do whatever the fuck you want and believe in whatever you'd like, and still go to heaven. According to Judaism, only Jews have to follow all the crazy laws, everyone else gets a free pass along with the right to follow any religion they choose (as long as it doesn't conflict with the Noahide laws). This jives pretty well with the fact that Judaism is one of the only major religions that don't proselytize. It does not want anyone to convert (and in fact purposely makes it hard for anyone to do so), and goes so far as to look unfavorably at, or even prohibit, proselytizing (unless the other party actively shows interest).



    • Prohibition of Idolatry
    • Murder
    • Theft
    • Sexual immorality
    • Blasphemy
    • eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
    • the requirement to establish courts of law.
    Ah okay yes.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    In the meantime, I present http://freethinker.co.uk/2013/05/02/devout-jewish-woman-sues-lancome-over-beauty-product-that-fails-the-sabbath-test/


    Devout Jewish woman sues Lancôme over beauty product that fails the Sabbath test

    NEW YORKER Rorie Weisberg forked out $45.00 for a one-ounce a bottle of facial gunk that promised a full night and day of “lasting perfection”.

    The Orthodox Jewish woman did so because she wanted something that would last her through the Sabbath. The product had to be long- lasting because it is verboten for observant Jews to apply make-up between sundown on a Friday and Saturday night.[....]


  • @mikeTheLiar said:

    ...Only the Rabbi could turn stuff on.

    That's what she said.



  • @dhromed said:

    • Prohibition of Idolatry
    • Murder
    • Theft
    • Sexual immorality
    • Blasphemy
    • eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
    • the requirement to establish courts of law.
    Ah okay yes.

    Now you know, folks! You can practice cannibalism and still go to heaven, BUT ONLY IF YOU DO IT ON A CORPSE SOMEONE/SOMETHING ELSE KILLED!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Now you know, folks! You can practice cannibalism and still go to heaven, BUT ONLY IF YOU DO IT ON A CORPSE SOMEONE/SOMETHING ELSE KILLED!
     

    And don't take pictures of it.



  • @JBotAlan said:

    @bridget99 said:
    I'm not sure the Jews actually buy into that heaven/hell crap... I've always associated it mostly with Protestantism. Even Catholic theology hedges and dithers quite a bit on this ("yes, these places exist, but you're probably going somewhere else").

    Yeah....no. As a Catholic, hell is very real and is a strong possibility for any human. It's the reason for the sacrament of reconciliation (confession).

    I'm curious to know where you got the impression you got here. As I understand it (I'm too young to have witnessed it firsthand), we (as the Church) had sort of an explosion of Kumbaya and felt banners and lukewarm homilies and bad theology, seemingly surrounding Vatican II, but actual solid Catholic theology was never iffy on this point.

    Well, Catholic theology does abandon the idea of anyone just dying and walking right into Heaven. They have Purgatory instead. And I don't think the Catholic vision of Heaven is quite so simplistic as the Protestant vision. It's basically a distinction between getting to be with God (Heaven) and having to yearn for Him for all eternity (Hell). If you listen to a lot of Protestant clergy, they really do have this belief system where good people die and go straight to some community of saints that resembles a gated community of McMansions. It amazes me that anyone beyond the age of 5 believes this. The Jewish view ("God says do these things, but you're worm food either way") seems more rational.



  • @anonymous_guy said:

    @bridget99 said:
    I'm not sure the Jews actually buy into that heaven/hell crap... I've always associated it mostly with Protestantism. Even Catholic theology hedges and dithers quite a bit on this ("yes, these places exist, but you're probably going somewhere else").

    Knowing both the Lutheran and the Catholic church quite well, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I think you're confusing Protestantism with Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism.


    That is the basic flavor of Protestantism I had in mind. I'm not sure if that's the most prevalent form numerically or not. It seems to be the most vocal.


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