📚 The book lovers thread
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Hrm...I'm taking suggestions these days actually, as I'm in search of something that will help a sim-sense-heavy worldbuilder with a knack for stories about system problems adapt to most folks' narrative tastes i.e. they want stories about human-condition problems, which just don't come up in my head much...
Of course, it doesn't help that I have issues with many dramatic conceits, of the "hey, reality doesn't work this way" variety.
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Maybe it was the translation or the guy reading on my CD-Book version, but that was the dullest, slowest thing.... 20-some disks for PART ONE.
I wouldn't call it the fastest moving or greatest book, but I read a pretty recent translation and thought it was pretty good. Of course, it's difficult to know what's too slow vs immersive (or whatever) to different people.
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Edith Grossman's definitive English translation of the Spanish masterpiece. Widely regarded as the world's first modern novel, and one of the funniest and most tragic books ever written
OK. Well, that didn't come through at all in the version I listened to...
I drive a lot and need something to listen to... and I could not finish this.
I mean I just finished, um, 17 discs of "Lawrence in Arabia", which was an absolute laugh riot compared to the version of Cervantes I had.
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I read probably 2/3rds of it. The problem is the pacing is REALLY crazy-weird. (I mean the guy wrote it in prison, and it's not like he had a word processor, and it's a spoof of a genre of novel that's so dead you've likely never read one. So.)
The part where he's at the inn, and mixes the potion to gain super-powers made me laugh so fucking hard. It had this line about how they were both expelling liquids from both ends simultaneously. I need to look up the exact quote.
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I read probably 2/3rds of it. The problem is the pacing is REALLY crazy-weird. (I mean the guy wrote it in prison, and it's not like he had a word processor, and it's a spoof of a genre of novel that's so dead you've likely never read one. So.)
Definitely weird. The modern version was also originally two different books published many years apart (and someone published a Quixote book in between which really pissed off Cervantes, and there are a lot of references in his second book to how awful the other one was). But stuff written in the 19th Century comes off as strange, too, so you have to make allowances if you're going to read like that. I don't do audio books, so no clue how that all comes off.
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stuff written in the 19th Century comes off as strange, too, so you have to make allowances if you're going to read like that.
I can't remember the version I have back at home but it had footnotes for the translation to help with time period things, word play in the original, and things like that. If I remember will look it up on Monday.
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I really enjoyed The Martian and 1984 is a classic, should try Seveneves then. Few more in my fave list are Anathem, and The Blade Itself. Sabriel was good and I liked The Fold up until near the end.
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I can't remember the version I have back at home but it had footnotes for the translation to help with time period things, word play in the original, and things like that. If I remember will look it up on Monday.
The version I linked had a lot of that, too.
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Ditto here, except the guy who wrote those was bizarrely focused on minor plot holes in the story. There was no way to tell which note was, "BTW this was a common thing to do in Spain at the time" and which was, "he said the woman had brown hair but now it's blonde! GOTCHA AUTHOR WHO'S BEEN DEAD FOR CENTURIES!!!"
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he said the woman had brown hair but now it's blonde! GOTCHA AUTHOR WHO'S BEEN DEAD FOR CENTURIES!!!
And was a really common style of mistake in what he was mocking, so could have also been playing it up.
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Somehow missed the Christie one though - I'll have to look specifically for it at the library.
So far It's a good story, it is said to be her best Poirot novel, I guess I'll find out in about 80 pages.
Good luck with that.
Maybe it was the translation or the guy reading on my CD-Book version, but that was the dullest, slowest thing.... 20-some disks for PART ONE. TLDR;
Mhh....I personally don't do audiobooks but that seems like a monstrosity. Then again, the book (at least the edition I have) is 1200 pages long...
I'm reading the original spanish version (because spanish is my native language, otherwise I wouldn't bother, since it would be like reading the Divine Comedy in the original Italian).
I'm going pretty slow, though. I mostly read it when I'm on vacations. In the meantime I've read plenty of other books. The comedic parts have aged well.
I'd recomend picking up an edition with footnotes and an introductory study, otherwise there are a lot of things you're likely to miss out on (mostly obscure references to famous chivalry books, notes about the outdated language, context as to why cervantes wrote certain chapters the way he did, which inconsistencies on the book were inserted on purppose).
I read probably 2/3rds of it. The problem is the pacing is REALLY crazy-weird. (I mean the guy wrote it in prison, and it's not like he had a word processor, and it's a spoof of a genre of novel that's so dead you've likely never read one. So.)
It's lampooning the entire chivalric novel genre, so he gratiously inserted inconsistencies in the story (at least according to the person who wrote the foreword to the edition I own) to mock some of the common patterns he hated in fiction writing.
I still find it enjoyable, though.
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So far It's a good story, it is said to be her best Poirot novel, I guess I'll find out in about 80 pages.
Christie is reliably entertaining... unfortunately the local library is attempting to pwn me by serving up BBC-Audio dramatizations on 2 or 4 disks instead of the unabridged versions.
Mhh....I personally don't do audiobooks but that seems like a monstrosity. Then again, the book (at least the edition I have) is 1200 pages long...
90+% of the time I have for "reading" is in the car so audio it is... After everyone's comments I'm pretty sure it must have been the reader who killed it. He had this tone that implied we were listening to important literature...The reader makes or breaks an audio book...
I'm reading the original spanish version (because spanish is my native language,
AHA! I bet that makes it a lot better. ;)
It's lampooning the entire chivalric novel genre,
Somehow (the intro?) I knew that... but still didn't even manage a wry smirk and I gave it a good chance - 10-12 disks worth. (Again the reader probably).
If you consume English for pleasure as well...
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After everyone's comments I'm pretty sure it must have been the reader who killed it. He had this tone that implied we were listening to important literature...
I think Cervantes probably would have approved if the guy was really over the top. As already noted, he was satirizing literature that took itself too seriously. But I didn't hear it and the author's approval doesn't make it entertaining.
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if the guy was really over the top
Nope - the dry and monotonic important.
For the over-the-top important see for example (warning: not a book)
With Richard Burton, Peter O'Toole, and John Gielgud
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Man of La Mancha - It's All The Same (1972) – 02:56
— junikidMan of La Mancha - Dulcinea - Peter O'Toole (1972) – 04:31
— TheLocalToadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ipuoMjer1I
This thread just reminded me that the movie version of Man of La Mancha was made in 1972 and starred Sophia Loren. You're welcome.
That one dude got a paycheck for copping a feel on 1972 Sophia Loren.
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Dude.
The middle frame of O'Toole as Quixote - Perfect.
Also, Sophia Loren.
Also related:
(Stars Sophia Loren and Charlton Heston the very tiny print )
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[Cervantes] was satirizing literature that took itself too seriously.
I never knew that until this thread. In a way, this conversation reminds me of the novelization of The Princess Bride, which styled itself just that--a parody of florid medieval literature (pronounced "litrachah" with the pinky out). None of that subtext came across in the movie, though, which is probably it's greatest flaw. Anyone who saw the movie and liked it and doesn't hate reading should read the book because it's probably twice as funny as the movie.
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Yes, Discourse, I AM sure...
Does go to show that the forum members aren't big on Summer beach reading...
Just finished listening to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omnivore's_Dilemma
It's an observational type of work, i.e not intended to be universally prescriptive, written by a journalism professor at Berkley .
One bit of structure has him comparing McDonald's; a nearly unique pasture-based family farm; and hunting and gathering.
He's shooting low-hanging fruit in a barrel, in a way.
Given that, I found it to be remarkably even-handed except that:
a. virtually all uses of any business-related words carried with them an implied "Very Evil" adjective
b. he anthropomorphizes evolution in the extreme - Corn, even as a species, does not have intent.Flip side - he refuses to side with the Utilitarians on meat-eating.
Substantive discussionsOur usual bickering, arguing and trolling should head over to another thread since this is
Looking for recommendations of other similar works, leaning towards examining the workings of smaller agricultural enterprises...
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That guy was the most intolerable "foodie" bullshit artist in the world.
Hated that book.
Hated it.
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That guy was the most intolerable "foodie" bullshit artist in the world.
Ugh, and whoever wrote the Wikipedia article was clearly a shill or groupie: "Corn has successfully changed the U.S. diet and animals diet. This can be seen when Pollan monitors the development of a calf from a pasture in South Dakota through its stay on a Kansas feedlot to its dreadful end. "
Bad grammar. So much for WP:NPOV. That was as far as I bothered reading.
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This can be seen when Pollan monitors the development of a calf from a pasture in South Dakota through its stay on a Kansas feedlot to its
dreadfuldelicious, tasty, burger-based end.FTFW
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Looking for recommendations of other similar works, leaning towards examining the workings of smaller agricultural enterprises...
Hmm, I suppose I didn't specify clearly, but I should add "hopefully by people who are not journalism professors at places like Berkley."
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If you consume English for pleasure as well...
Is it enjoyable if you haven't read anything about the Arthurian myths? I was looking for a place to start...
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Is it enjoyable if you haven't read anything about the Arthurian myths?
I thought so... Steinbeck writes easy to read prose and doesn't assume much if any prior knowledge of Arthurian myths. He's more Hemingway and less Tolkien.
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I finished Cryptonomicon and started Seveneves.
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For the history and WWII buffs, you may also enjoy In The Shadow Of His Wings:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Shadow-His-Wings-Goldmann/dp/0898707749
It tells the story of a member of the SS (the military, not the police side) who was drafted out of the seminary. Definitely not a side of the story you often hear. (Some highlights - what did conservative Germans think of Adolf Hitler / the Nazis when they came to power, arguing with Himmler (IIRC), driving up and down a mountain in Sicily while under fire to get Communion for dying German troops, spending time in an Ally POW camp in North Africa after the war ministering to Nazis and former Nazis).
Also, in the SF side of things, I'm surprised no one has mentioned James P. Hogan. The Multiplex Man and Inherit the Stars are both quite enjoyable.
James P. Hogan: books, biography, latest update
Follow James P. Hogan and explore their bibliography from Amazon.com's James P. Hogan Author Page.
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history and WWII buffs
There are many WWII buffs. I prefer fantasy/SF but just finished Ken Follett's Fall of Giants, which is a WWI novel. It was of course a beautiful read, next in the trilogy is Winter of the World about WWII.
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Ken Follett
That's the guy who wrote Pillars of the Earth, right? I remember quite liking that one.
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Pillars of the Earth
Yes. Actually I started Fall of Giants right after Pillars of the Earth because I liked it so much.
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I remember quite liking that one.
It was a bit too “and then X and then Y and then Z and then …” for me.
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If you're an MHI fan, you'll enjoy:
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Lately I've been rereading the Sandman Slim series by Richard Kadrey, since I'm now two books behind and want to refresh my memory before catching up on the new ones. It's kind of like Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos stories, except with more sex and bloodshed and crazy demonic shit going on.
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Finished Seveneves it was amazing, comparable or even better than The Martian IMO. Has the potential for more than one blockbusters.
Started reading the third novel by Neal Stephenson:
I risk mentioning @blakeyrat to let him know he should read/listen to it if he wants to improve his game channel narrative.
I think I will have few weeks of hour-long commutes starting Dec 2nd (until I move to somewhere closer to that crazy-expensive city) that I am going to enjoy all the way to SF.
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I risk mentioning @blakeyrat to let him know he should read/listen to it if he wants to improve his game channel narrative.
I've read it, it's awful.
EDIT: Awful's unfair. It's not nearly as good as its reputation says it is. Naming your main character "Hiro Protagonist" isn't clever, it's fucking stupid. And don't even get me started on that "listen to Reason" thing. Jesus. Awful.
Ugh and I just remembered that thing about rigging up a surplus Russian nuke (which you can buy for $5.99 at any K-Mart because IT'S THE DYSTOPIAN FUTURE! OooOOO!") to a motorcycle. You total up the clever ideas in the book, and the fucking retarded ideas in the book, and fucking retarded's gonna win.
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Ok, I am in 3 chapters, so far it is funny I think. Everything is like in a computer game, including the character names.
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Ugh and I just remembered that thing about rigging up a surplus Russian nuke (which you can buy for $5.99 at any K-Mart because IT'S THE DYSTOPIAN FUTURE! OooOOO!") to a motorcycle.
It's not quite that bad, it explains it as being looted from a nuclear sub that takes on refuges (one of which being the murderous weapon thief). That's slightly more plausible than 'found it' I guess.
I thought it was fun because it was playful about the christmas-cracker-joke plot points. It was better than Accelerando which made my head hurt with the zillion plot threads happening simultaneously.
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I thought the actual plot of the novel, the threat of the snow crash pattern, was kind of clever. And I guess the retarded VR stuff was slightly more reasonable considering it was written in '92. That's all the concession I'm giving though.
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All the stuff about mafia pizza delivery was just dumb though, even in '92.
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Some of my favorite books:
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I liked Dune, so I take your advice and put "The Mote in God's Eye" in my list.
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It is more funny than dumb. I picture the whole thing like a stupid computer game, but the narration is interesting that is why I wanted to know if blakey has read it.
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Blakey is a terrible source for literary criticism. At least for fiction. Snowcrash is pretty awesome. But I think Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle are his best.
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But I think Cryptonomicon and the Baroque Cycle are his best.
I liked Cryptonomicon, but I think Anathem and Seveneves are his best. Baroque Cycle is long even with my standards, but I have an eye on it because of some gems like the Game of Thrones.
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Anathem was good, but very difficult.
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Anathem takes time to read :) I had to re-read some chapters like a textbook! but do not regret it the story is sublime and rich in details and research.
Finished Snow Crash. It was good story, but the ending was too abrupt and the religious reference was a little absurd. Here is my current rating: Seveneves > Anathem > Cryptonomicon > ... > Snow Crash.
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Am now in the middle of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms by George R. R. Martin, it is a prequel to the Game of Thrones. It is amazingly well written! if you liked the Game of Throne this is a must read.
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Feeling out of ideas for a recent good SciFi book. Started The Sirens of Titan as something shorter, but also got The Mote in God's Eye ready for the next read.
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The Mote is good. One of the times a collaboration between writers genuinely worked. On the other hand it's not as hard in SF terms as some of Niven's other works.
The gripping hand is that you've already got it.
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I have been listening to the audiobook of Seveneves:
http://www.amazon.com/Seveneves-Novel-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0062190377/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=Quite good sci-fi, if rather... Squishy on the hardness scale. Not Star Wars squishy, it's still recognizable as being more or less the way things actually work, but the math and technology require some suspenders of disbelief. (Spoilers technically follow, but by reading both the book blurb and opening scene, you know it's coming so fuck you)
Basically, at some indeterminate future date that seems to be like 5 years from now, the moon breaks up into seven pieces for raisins ('fuck if we know, more important things to worry about now!' is the in-universe explanation) and Earth is going to get some nice shiny rings as that shit all breaks apart.
And then someone realizes the implications for the people on the planet while all of that happens. So it's time to GTFO!
Long story short, this contains one of the most beautiful descriptions of the end of the world that I have ever read. Very recommend.
And I'm only 11hrs into the 30 fucking hour audiobook. So if you do Audible and like lengthy titles, this is a thing. Yeah. The complete destruction of Planet Earth is basically Act 1.
The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights - Wikipedia
A Halloween Public Service Annocement from Monster Hunter International
