OpenBSD users?
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Anyone but me use this as a Server and Alt-Workstation (I don't tend to use Linux)?
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I use FreeNAS, which is a distro based on FreeBSD.
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@Tsaukpaetra OpenBSD isn't FreeBSD. I wish there was an OS with a bit of both.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
@Tsaukpaetra OpenBSD isn't FreeBSD. I wish there was an OS with a bit of both.
Eh. I was almost "close enough". Moreso than Linux anyways. ;)
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@Tsaukpaetra Yeh. I have to use ubuntu on my netbook. It loads of googling nonsense. If I use OpenBSD I just look at the man pages and everything is there.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
@Tsaukpaetra Yeh. I have to use ubuntu on my netbook. It loads of googling nonsense. If I use OpenBSD I just look at the man pages and everything is there.
I might try it seriously actually. I haven't been able to figure out
manyet, because by the time I pull it up I've already pulled it on the web and already know how to navigate a web page, so
.
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man <command name>Space to go down and
escape to quitq to quit. That is it.Also the man pages on the net aren't the same man-pages that were given with the system. So they might not be right.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
''' man <command name? '''
Well, sure, that's how you pull it up, but how do you navigate (other than scrolling up and down)? Like, selecting a sub-command or searching?
I don't have it in front of me, but IIRC the interface was so sparse it wouldn't look half bad on a printed piece of paper...
Edit: Not to mention figuring out which command it was that you needed in the first place.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in OpenBSD users?:
Well, sure, that's how you pull it up, but how do you navigate (other than scrolling up and down)? Like, selecting a sub-command or searching?
Page Up and Page Down should work. To search for a string, press /.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
man pages
@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
everything is there
Well indeed, that's rather my problem with them...
I have trouble using manpages because 90% of the time the information you're looking for is buried under piles and piles of irrelevant information. Whereas a single Google search leads me straight to the answer.
Lazy? Perhaps. But manpages are really information dense!
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@sloosecannon said in OpenBSD users?:
@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
man pages
@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
everything is there
Well indeed, that's rather my problem with them...
I have trouble using manpages because 90% of the time the information you're looking for is buried under piles and piles of irrelevant information. Whereas a single Google search leads me straight to the answer.
Lazy? Perhaps. But manpages are really information dense!
Yeah! If only someone could invent some kind of hierarchical way of organizing information so you could quickly still down to the thing you need...
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
Space to go down and
escape to quitq to quit. That is it.I find it rather useful to also know that b scrolls toward the start of the file while < and > take you to the start and end of the file, respectively. (At least on OS X, probably on other BSDs as well; not sure about Linux.)
At least it’s not GNU Info. I could never get along with that.
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@sloosecannon said in OpenBSD users?:
I have trouble using because 90% of the time the information you're looking for is buried under piles and piles of irrelevant information. Whereas a single Google search leads me straight to the answer.
Most of them seem to be written from the standpoint of documenting what the program can do rather than what a user may want to get done with it. I find manpages mostly useful as a reminder of how to do what I already know the program can do, but of which I don’t recall the details — trying to figure out how to actually use a program from a manpage … anyone who does that habitually is certainly more hardcore than I am.
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@Tsaukpaetra I think there is this
texinfosystem for a hierarchical version of manpages, and it only makes things worse.
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@Dragnslcr said in OpenBSD users?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in OpenBSD users?:
Well, sure, that's how you pull it up, but how do you navigate (other than scrolling up and down)? Like, selecting a sub-command or searching?
Page Up and Page Down should work. To search for a string, press /.
Home/End work as well. In my experience however, search is often pointless. Either you've got a small man page and you don't need to search, or you have a large one and the section you're looking for is referenced in tons of places (looking at you,
man bash).
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How does OpenBSD compare to Ubuntu 16.04 in terms of general use (web browsing, media, light Java-based gaming)? If it does all that just as well and also has usable documentation, I might have to give it a try.
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@mott555 I know someone that started using one of these BSDs because he thinks Linux is too mainstream for him
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man pages are what happens when some self centered guy re-engineers something as simple as "wc" to be "way more feature filled etc" and feels it's their duty to the modern, open source world to be heavily documented.
So, me.
I usually use them to look up documentation on arguments
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@mott555 said in OpenBSD users?:
How does OpenBSD compare to Ubuntu 16.04 in terms of general use (web browsing, media, light Java-based gaming)? If it does all that just as well and also has usable documentation, I might have to give it a try.
That would probably depend mostly on what desktop environment you use. I couldn't see on the OpenBSD web site what it uses by default, though. You can probably install Gnome, KDE, or Xfce, but it might not be as simple as the (K,X)Ubuntu installer.
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Is OpenBSD the one maintained by Theo de Blakeyraadt? That guy is funny
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@mott555 ERR. YMMV. If you want a desktop system just use Ubuntu or Mint tbh.
- They have disabled kernel user mount. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160715125022&mode=expanded&count=13
- The installer is Spartan as fuck.
- Generally it takes a few minutes to install, then you need to Links to get the URL for packages and you can install an XFCE 4 meta package, Firefox etc.
- It uses KSH as the main shell and you have to setup you .profile file (I hate dealing with BASH)
- You have to add the shell scripts to start XDM / KDM / GDM manually yourself (again it is in the man pages).
- They have package flavors, so you could get a version of pidgen without the sound module compiled in.
- Ports is pretty easy to install and works like FreeBSD ports (pretty much run make install clean and get a cup of tea).
They have a FAQ here http://www.openbsd.org/faq/
I used OpenBSD / Windows Dual boot at uni and tbh I only booted into Windows for Games and using Office.
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@groo said in OpenBSD users?:
I know someone that started using one of these BSDs because he thinks Linux is too mainstream for him
I was using FreeBSD before it was cool.
@mott555 said in OpenBSD users?:
How does OpenBSD compare to Ubuntu 16.04 in terms of general use (web browsing, media, light Java-based gaming)? If it does all that just as well and also has usable documentation, I might have to give it a try.
If you must try a BSD on the desktop, I would recommend FreeBSD instead. I've used it on a desktop, so it is possible, and the community has more desktop users, so you'd probably have an easier time getting support if needed.
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@antiquarian or http://pcbsd.org/
OpenBSD is more like Slackware had babies with FreeBSD in terms on everything.
EDIT: Arch Linux is probably the most similar, but tbh I hate Arch Linux because it is far more complicated than OpenBSD and there is a shitty wiki that is kinda out of date and a load of other crap. Can't be arsed.
One of the reasons why I really like OpenBSD is that everything you need to know is in the docs, and it either is supported i.e. works. If it isn't supported, it means it doesn't work and you will have to get it working yourself.
Realistically all Intel chipsets with a GPU are supported as those drivers are ported. Anything AMD ... just install Linux. If you have a Nvidia GPU (like I do on my main desktop), Install Windows.
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@lucas1 PC-BSD looks interesting, currently downloading.
I just put Open BSD in a VM. It looks like 1985.
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@mott555 Install XFCE job done.
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@lucas1 Ugh. Can't, because openbsd's FTP server that hosts all the packages is down.
But PC-BSD just finished downloading...time to spin up another VM.
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@mott555 Got PC-BSD installed. It looks like 2005. However, changing the screen resolution makes the mouse quit working, and I can't be bothered to evaluate an OS at 800x600. Also, KDE
.I don't have any physical hardware to do more testing. I assume the resolution/mouse issue has to do with ESXi and PC-BSD not quite getting along.
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@mott555 said in OpenBSD users?:
It looks like 1985.
Nope. In 1985 that would have been monochrome as colour wasn't available at the same time as high-resolution 640×480 displays due to the cost of video hardware. The years you're thinking about are more like 1993–1994…
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@mott555 Why didn't you try one of the mirrors. Also have you got your PKG_PATH sorted.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
@mott555 Why didn't you try one of the mirrors. Also have you got your PKG_PATH sorted.
PKG_PATH was set. None of the guides for installing XFCE mentioned mirrors, they said to use ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/, and I had better things to do than figure all that out. I'll try again tonight if their FTP site is back up.
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I have a FreeBSD server. Got it mostly for zfs and SCIENCE.
Agreed, it has really good man pages. On the downside
--helpis usually way worse than on gnu. They basically punish you if you don't want to use their neat manuals.The way system is structured feels better thought out than most linux distros I've seen.
Biggest pain - software installation and configuration. If it's not in the repos, good luck getting it to work.
Linux is obscure enough. For most people, the additional headache isn't worth it.
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@cartman82 I used to get pissed off with Linux forever basically googling solutions to problems and finding it was fixed in distro X because they had implemented Y in the kernel for reason M.
I used OpenBSD from 3.8 ish and it just worked.
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Right. I installed it (openbsd) on my Intel Laptop again.
Good things
- Install took 5 minutes
- Some stuff had changed which I needed to read the FAQ and Man pages again on stuff I knew.
- Wireless was easy to setup once I read the hostname.if(5) man pages.
- Hibernate is supported
Bad things
- Slim uses ~/.xinitrc to start Window managers / DEs ... which is confusing because everything uses the ~/.xsession file.
- It really pisses me off that post installation instruction of packages location isn't listed in the pkg_info text ... and I had to hunt around using find in the /usr directory and then stick the location in a text file in my home directory.
- Firefox is slow as fuck after 6 tabs when using the battery .. no idea why.
Ugly things
- some tooling won't ever work
- Hibernate kinda works but then doesn't ... not sure why ... will send my dmesg over to them. I think it is something with this laptop than OpenBSD (had problems with ubuntu).
- Having to update xorg.conf for new fonts is just something that should be automatic. Also not having to reinstall X
- history in the terminal doesn't work ... I am sure it should but I don't know why yet.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
- history in the terminal doesn't work ... I am sure it should but I don't know why yet.
I haven't used BSD for a long time, but they used to use csh as the default shell, which has some kind of history but it doesn't really work well. Better install tcsh.
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@Grunnen OpenBSD uses KSH
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
KSH
A respectable shell. Did they improve the terminal handling in recent versions? Back when I used to use it years ago, that was the main thing where bash was better.
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@dkf I honestly wouldn't know. Everything works well, but tbh if I script something I tend to use python or perl and write something OS agnostic. So I don't write shell scripts as a rule, and if I do they are normally just to make sure everything in in place before build / deployment.
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Update: Gave up and used Ubuntu.
Basically web browsing was shite. Everything worked okay until I had a 5th tab open.
Being a web dev that is basically makes it worthless for me unfortunately.
Still using as a server OS, but until they fix that it is a no go for me.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
Basically web browsing was shite. Everything worked okay until I had a 5th tab open.
What machine is that?
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@Adynathos It is a Dell e6410. Specs here (sorry original dell page doesn't exist):
100% intel chipset (should be supported by most Alt-OS), I upgraded to 8gb of ram (came with 4) and an Kingstong 265gb SSD.
Runs Ubuntu like lightning, OpenBSD is nice and fast until I try to do web browsing. Shame.
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@lucas1 said in OpenBSD users?:
Runs Ubuntu like lightning, OpenBSD is nice and fast until I try to do web browsing. Shame.
Ah sorry, I thought FFox on Ubuntu was slow but that never happened to me so I wondered if its just a slow machine :P
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@Adynathos At one point I think Ubuntu was like slower than Fedora ... it is pretty swift on this machine. It was a £180 refurb laptop with a 1600x900 (or somewhat similar resolution with a decent processor and I spent another £100 on SSD and Ram upgrade and it is now a very decent PC (dual booting Windows 10).
Forgot, the keyboard was busted, so I had to spend another £30 on a new backlit keyboard from ebay, gave the seller of the laptop a shitty mail.
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@dkf SSD is the crack cocaine of the computer world, once you get hooked there is no going back ...
firefox vs rthreads
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