Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats
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@groo You do, however, have to intentionally use a useless feature in an unsafe manner....
so basically it'll catch everyone ever.
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20 years from now I'm going to wake up and be unable to use the coffee pot, microwave, or toilet that morning because EVERYTHING will be Internet-enabled and they'll catch some ridiculous piece of malware.
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@mott555 INB4 "Had a car crash because internet was down and I couldn't make coffee"
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@mott555 You could just not buy that garbage.
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@blakeyrat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@mott555 You could just not buy that garbage.
I could also just not buy automatic transmissions but all the truck manufacturers took that choice away already.
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@mott555 And now your truck's going to get hacked through the transmis-- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
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@blakeyrat He predicts that the industry will abandon disconnected devices. I predict it will die as the stupid fad it is.
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@blakeyrat It's called an analogy, where I described a real-life situation where something changed drastically so now there are fewer options than before, and some believe the remaining options are garbage compared to what was available 20 years ago.
In 20 years we won't have any choice but to buy Internet-enabled toilets because everyone (except me) thinks its a good idea that it autotweets pictures of your excrement to RateMyPoo.com, and good-old non-Internet toilets are no longer available. And the US will turn into India with shit floating down the streets because everyone's smart toilets have turned into Nigerian princes asking for bank account numbers and SSNs and can't flush anymore.
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@blakeyrat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@mott555 And now your truck's going to get hacked through the transmis-- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
Are you really so dense:
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@bb36e That's just his way of telling that this analogy sucks, I guess
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@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
It's called an analogy, where I described a real-life situation where something changed drastically
What?
@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
now there are fewer options than before, and some believe the remaining options are garbage compared to what was available 20 years ago.
Yeah well you're wrong. An automatic transmission's functionality is a superset of a manual's.
The only possible complaints left are:
- Well it makes every truck slightly more expensive (possibly true-- except you don't need a regular clutch replacement so it probably evens out over 200k miles)
- Well I don't want to learn something new because I'm a luddite (the most likely problem here)
Either way, trucks are not coffeemakers. And the "disadvantages" of automatic transmissions don't get your truck hacked or otherwise affect its performance.
There's no way the $5 coffeemakers on the shelf at Wal-Mart are going to have little LED screens installed by default unless the government forces it on them. And you'd have to demonstrate SOME intent there to make that argument.
(You could have used the TPMS in your analogy-- since the government does require that and it's useless for a lot of responsible vehicle owners and some are very unreliable. But that would have required actual thought instead of just being an angry truck luddite.)
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@blakeyrat "some believe" is not necessarily equal to "me". You also have a lot more faith than I do in companies and the government to not force the stupidest possible option on everybody.
Also what is a TPMS--I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT SO YOU MUST BE WRONG WAH WAH WAH.
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@mott555 It stands for Terrible Pisshead Mott555 Stupidity. Required on all new cars now. You get in your car and the dashboard says, "yeah well I'd like to buy a manual truck but you can't anymore".
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@blakeyrat you're stuck in your old Luddite ways. IoT is the future.
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@blakeyrat I had to google that one. I wonder when will they start connecting it to the internet and you'll need a SIM card with a data plan in them.
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@groo said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
this analogy sucks,
But ... it was a car analogy ... you can't go wrong with car analogies ...
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@groo It will not die.
If something has benefits, even tiny ones, and the drawbacks tend to zero with time, then that thing will become the norm.
Contrary to popular belief, no, not everything has to be hackable. It's just hard to make secure things. But that cost spreads out over time.
For starters, as will be obvious to anyone who's not a complete fucking retard (i.e. not most of the industry), devices should never handle their own authentication, and should discard any packets not cryptographically signed by the one trusted key (and that code should be formally verified for good measure), which will be stored in a central hub (a device in your house, or in the cloud if you trust them) running some interface to authenticate you and rely your commands. Because a single point of attack is manageable, whereas 50 different devices running their 50 proprietary protocols each with their fancy Android app is a mess.
This already gets rid of all "random guy from russia sends malformed packet and pwns your coffee maker", leaving only other attack vectors (like malicious files, or social engineering). Many of those other can also be eliminated in their own ways, and if you then add strict quality assurance programs, including long support periods, you can have smart devices that are actually secure enough.
But all that costs money, and who wants to buy a secure thing for $300 when there's one for $100 right next to it?
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@Luhmann said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@groo said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
this analogy sucks,
But ... it was a car analogy ... you can't go wrong with car analogies ...
You see, it's like a car speeding down the highway, but humorless @blakeyrat is standing in the middle of the fast lane because he thinks it's a stupid analogy and suddenly BLAM everyone but him is entertained and he's still arguing that the speeding car never should have been there because it's a stupid analogy.
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@anonymous234 maybe it will go exactly like the automatic car analogy. it gets popular only in america were people have lots of money, but nowhere else, where the cost/benefit of these things are a joke.
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@groo I think it might end up like that but I'm hoping that it stays localised to San Francisco
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@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
In 20 years we won't have any choice but to buy Internet-enabled toilets because everyone (except me) thinks its a good idea
I won't buy any smart toilet that can't run FF22, so I'm safe.
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@groo I look forward to the day that I can't use my phone because it's being DDOSed by my kitchen
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@bb36e said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@groo I look forward to the day that I can't use my phone because it's being DDOSed by my kitchen
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@Lorne-Kates but I like muffins :(
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Imagine the achievements we'll have once Microsoft releases the Xbox app for kitchen appliances!
- Release the Magic Blue Smoke: Ran the microwave for thirty minutes with nothing inside.
- Organic Farmer: Left a vegetable in the refrigerator's veggie drawer for a year.
- Extra Crispy: Put a slice of bread through the toaster for ten cycles on the darkest setting.
- Slimy Yet Satisfying: Tried to fry pork chops with the stove turned off.
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@Lorne-Kates What a waffle situation to be in!
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@mott555 Imagine a Linux-powered refrigerator--it'll only keep kale cool. "Not compatible with dairy or meat products."
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@blakeyrat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
An automatic transmission's functionality is a superset of a manual's.
An internet-connected smart device's functionality is a superset of a regular one's.
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@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
An internet-connected smart device's functionality is a superset of a regular one's.
It's not a proper superset, though, because it won't have the "can't be hacked by a malicious JPG" "feature".
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@FrostCat Yes, but automatics also don't have the "can't-be-stolen-by-high-school-kids" "feature", either.
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Honestly, I think blakey is right here. Automatics are probably better than manual transmissions.
But I still want to learn to drive stick. So as an american, this makes me sad, as I have very limited choice to get one a car with a manual transmission.
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@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Yes, but automatics also don't have the "can't-be-stolen-by-high-school-kids" "feature", either.
Minivans do.
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@FrostCat Not necessarily.
http://fm99.com/rumble/4-amish-teenagers-arrested-after-a-joy-ride-in-a-dodge-minivan/
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@mrguyorama said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
But I still want to learn to drive stick.
If you don't mind buying new you can certainly order one with a standard transmission. Lots of models still have them available.
Actually if you were to haunt large used car places like Carmax you'd almost certainly find a few, too.
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@FrostCat I keep hearing automatics are really expensive to fix when it's transmission break.
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@FrostCat but someday I want a really
expensivefun car. No lexus comes with a manual transmission here in the states, and I'm not sure that by the time I can buy it, there will even be an option anywhereOn topic: I'm just not going to let these IoT devices connect to my network. Screw that. If I want to connect my house, I want to do it myself. Anyone know how to get a Parallax basic stamp micro controller hooked up to ethernet?
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@groo said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
I keep hearing automatics are really expensive to fix when it's transmission break.
That's true. But it's not as if it's a regular thing.
I drove a Ford Escort 220,000 miles and the transmission died, but that's because it developed an oil leak and I didn't keep the oil topped off before I could get the thing fixed. A modern car, you should probably get that many miles out of it without worrying about the transmission, as long as you change the oil in something approximating the manufacturer's schedule .
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@groo said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@FrostCat I keep hearing automatics are really expensive to fix when it's transmission break.
It's like 10X the labor to replace the clutches in an automatic compared to replacing the clutch in a manual, and burned-out clutches is typically how automatics fail. Though rebuilding an automatic isn't that expensive if you have the time and tools to do it yourself.
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@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
It's like 10X the labor to replace the clutches in an automatic compared to replacing the clutch in a manual, and burned-out clutches is typically how automatics fail.
I'm prepared to believe that but I've only known I think one person who ever had to replace/repair a transmission besides myself, and that was my fault. I bet I could've gotten another 100K out of that car otherwise, because it was mostly bulletproof.
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@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Pfftt. They were Amish. I'm gonna chalk that one up to a fluke--they were probably looking for something that most resembled a carriage.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
An internet-connected smart device's functionality is a superset of a regular one's.
It's not a proper superset, though, because it won't have the "can't be hacked by a malicious JPG" "feature".
And the set Y = {1, 2, 3, 4} isn't a proper superset of X = {1, 2, 3} because it won't have the "doesn't contain 4" feature?
If you're allowed to add "doesn't contain Y - X" as a feature in the subset, then there's no such thing as a "proper superset".
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@mott555 So you're being a drama queen? Check.
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@anotherusername said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
And the set Y = {1, 2, 3, 4} isn't a proper superset of X = {1, 2, 3} because it won't have the "doesn't contain 4" feature?
No, Y = {1, 2, 3, 4} isn't a proper superset of X = {A, 1, 2, 3 }, where A is "secure".
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@groo said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
I keep hearing automatics are really expensive to fix when it's transmission break.
I've only ever heard of an automatic transmission breaking once, and it was in an old 1991 Dodge Caravan, and the Caravan could still drive in 2nd gear (it had a safety feature to lock into a gear when it broke instead of just being useless), and it was one of the old type of swirling oil transmissions.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@anotherusername said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
And the set Y = {1, 2, 3, 4} isn't a proper superset of X = {1, 2, 3} because it won't have the "doesn't contain 4" feature?
No, Y = {1, 2, 3, 4} isn't a proper superset of X = {A, 1, 2, 3 }, where A is "
securedoesn't contain 4".It's the same thing. "Secure" is abstract; to actually prove it factually, you'll probably end up trying to prove a negative: "doesn't contain any
bugsundocumented features".See, it's like monitor A, which has VGA and HDMI, and monitor B, which has a superset of monitor A's features: HDMI, "secure", and not VGA because it's not secure.
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@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
An internet-connected smart device's functionality is a superset of a regular one's.
As long as they don’t run everything through the computer, and that’s exactly what they’re likely to do (run it like a computer, that is). Your average Internet-of-Things toaster is unlikely to have a simple push-down button if lowering the toast can also be done by a computer-controlled servo — if for no other reason than to make the thing appear “better” than the old low-tech toasters where you have to do manual labour to even get your slices of bread into the machine!
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@Gurth I'm still waiting for my lightsaber-breadknife-toaster, tbh.
ETA: After a quick google, I think I'll keep waiting...
The knife that TOASTS bread: Eccentric inventor creates hot saw
British inventor Colin Furze created the 'FurzoToasto' knife (pictured) in his garage, which uses an electrical current to heat the red-hot blade.
Argument from analogy - Wikipedia
