Linux on the Desktop? A long way off...
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Shipping and selling are two different things. I would be interested to see how many USERS there are of linux based eeepcs.
Currently, it's possible to get them. For ~ six months, it was almost impossible. When a shipment arrived, it was sold out the same day. Seriously.
Like others have said, buying them with linux and installing windows would negate any advantage you perceive here.
Why should anyone install XP on such a device? Given the hardware specs, it's no fun (except for the "because-I-can" geeks).
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Linux is improving, and I'd say many distros are ready for home use, in terms of reliability and completeness. Being patient and remaining readily available is the only way to overcome problems like lack of user familarity and software authors not considering it a viable platform to wrap their apps to.
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@ammoQ said:
Currently, it's possible to get them. For ~ six months, it was almost impossible. When a shipment arrived, it was sold out the same day. Seriously.
So what? People see a cheap laptop and buy it. How many of those people were thoroughly pissed off when they later found out it was Linux and couldn't run the software they already had around the house? Or the software they bought off the shelf at walmart?
Tricking people into using Linux is not an advancement.
@ammoQ said:
Why should anyone install XP on such a device? Given the hardware specs, it's no fun (except for the "because-I-can" geeks).
XP runs quite well on crappier machines. Especially if you do the same tweaking you would need to do to a Linux distro like Ubuntu.
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@ammoQ said:
Given the hardware specs, it's no fun (except for the "because-I-can" geeks).
I've talked to a few eeePC/UMPC owners and they all bought the Linux versions to save some cash so they could install pirated XP. It's also mentioned quite a bit on the web. Seriously, it's not as unlikely as you think. I would be shocked if more than half of the people who bought Linux versions stuck with Linux.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
So what? People see a cheap laptop and buy it. How many of those people were thoroughly pissed off when they later found out it was Linux and couldn't run the software they already had around the house? Or the software they bought off the shelf at walmart?
Do you know someone like that or are you just speculating? Because the same people might have been pissed of when they learned that the EeePC comes without a CD-ROM drive. Or the screen resolution is too small for many programs. BTW, the Eee-PC is not just a cheap notebook. It's very tiny and nobody would confuse it with a real notebook.
XP runs quite well on crappier machines. Especially if you do the same tweaking you would need to do to a Linux distro like Ubuntu.
Sure it does, but what would you gain? It won't run your games. Installing any off-the-shelf software requires an additional investment for a external CD-Rom drive. Because of the screen resulution, you either have to install a driver that demagnifies a larger virtual resultion to the device's 800x480, which slows down the system and blurs the display, or you won't be able to reach the OK button in many dialog boxes.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@ammoQ said:
Given the hardware specs, it's no fun (except for the "because-I-can" geeks).
I've talked to a few eeePC/UMPC owners and they all bought the Linux versions to save some cash so they could install pirated XP. It's also mentioned quite a bit on the web. Seriously, it's not as unlikely as you think. I would be shocked if more than half of the people who bought Linux versions stuck with Linux.
I cannot imagine any ruffians doing this.
Also, I find it funny that I am seeing reports the XP version is actually cheaper than the linux version.
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@morbiuswilters said:
That's because you are apparently a MS fanboy, so you know that kind of people. On the other hand, I know the people who dumped preinstalled Windows in favor of Linux. Birds of a feather flock together.I've talked to a few eeePC/UMPC owners and they all bought the Linux versions to save some cash so they could install pirated XP. It's also mentioned quite a bit on the web. Seriously, it's not as unlikely as you think. I would be shocked if more than half of the people who bought Linux versions stuck with Linux.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
So what? People see a cheap laptop and buy it. How many of those people were thoroughly pissed off when they later found out it was Linux and couldn't run the software they already had around the house? Or the software they bought off the shelf at walmart?
Abso-fucking-lutely. I do free tech support for several family members, friends and family friends (as I imagine a lot of the people here do). In the last couple of years I've had several cases of an excited acquaintance coming to me and wanting to buy a cheap laptop or desktop. Of course, these machines often have Linux installed. The low price makes them suspicious that the machine won't be "good enough" for what they want or that there is some catch and I have to explain to them that spending money on a Linux-based computer would be a bad investment and that they should spend the extra $100 to get a Dell with XP/Vista. Now keep in mind that not every non-tech-savvy user out there has someone they can count on to honestly explain the downsides of a Linux-based computer and that not everyone one of them will even be suspicious enough to ask in the first place. Considering how many tech-savvy people on here will praise Linux and suggest it for n00bs I'm guessing a lot of people who do bother asking probably get screwed over by relatives/friends who are more interested in spreading Linux than helping.
I always tell non-tech-savvy people to avoid these computers because they just aren't worth the hassle. Even if Linux will handle everything they do now, there's no telling if they will want to buy a web-cam or printer or something else in the future that Linux will not support. Then there's the issue of support for the machine -- if I can't physically work on the computer I will often tell them to take it to Best Buy and inform the techs that the hard drive is failing, etc.. That's enough of a hassle with Windows but for Linux it would be a nightmare. With Windows I know they are buying into a well-supported, mature and mainstream technology that should do whatever it is they want to accomplish. It also helps out with learning because a lot of these people have kids who are more tech-savvy than their parents and who can show them how to use Windows. Those same kids would probably be a bit lost on Linux. If that person goes to work or an Internet cafe or a library chances are the machine will be running Windows as well, so it makes transition easy for them. For that peace-of-mind there is absolutely no way I would recommend saving $100 by purchasing a Linux-based computer.
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@ammoQ said:
That's because you are apparently a MS fanboy, so you know that kind of people.
Funny, the two people arguing against you both use Linux on a daily basis.
I know morb's primary OS is Linux, and two of my machines sitting here are Linux.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Seriously: So what? It's possible to do that, so instructions on how to do that exist.
Also, I find it funny that I am seeing reports the XP version is actually cheaper than the linux version.
Apparantly MS made the XP license cheap enough, cheaper that the additional capacity Linux version offers. Seems like MS is very eager to stop the success of Linux is this market segment.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@ammoQ said:
That's because you are apparently a MS fanboy, so you know that kind of people.
Funny, the two people arguing against you both use Linux on a daily basis.
I know morb's primary OS is Linux, and two of my machines sitting here are Linux.
Can't be true. If you were using Linux, that alone would raise the market share to at least 1.5%.
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@ammoQ said:
Seriously: So what? It's possible to do that, so instructions on how to do that exist.
Supply and demand my friend.
@ammoQ said:
Apparantly MS made the XP license cheap enough, cheaper that the additional capacity Linux version offers. Seems like MS is very eager to stop the success of Linux is this market segment.
Haha, ok, then how can something that costs money be cheaper than Linux which is free?
Did you think at all before posting?
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@ammoQ said:
Can't be true. If you were using Linux, that alone would raise the market share to at least 1.5%.
Indeed, they have been tracking page hits on TDWTF forums, and arrived at .8%. Considering I use Linux, that makes your market share argument sad.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@ammoQ said:
Seriously: So what? It's possible to do that, so instructions on how to do that exist.
Supply and demand my friend.
There are many similar instructions on the web. How to install Linux on ... all kinds of devices. Specific notebooks, game consoles, iPods. Does that mean anything in terms of market share?
@ammoQ said:
Apparantly MS made the XP license cheap enough, cheaper that the additional capacity Linux version offers. Seems like MS is very eager to stop the success of Linux is this market segment.
Haha, ok, then how can something that costs money be cheaper than Linux which is free?
Did you think at all before posting?
You are aware that the Linux version comes with a larger SSD?
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@ammoQ said:
You are aware that the Linux version comes with a larger SSD?
Funny. Didn't you say Windows would require MORE hardware?
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Funny. Didn't you say Windows would require MORE hardware?
Asus announced to sell both version for the same price, but the Linux version comes with a larger SSD to compensate for the lower license costs. Apparantly, those licenses have become cheaper quickly, while SSD still costs the same.
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@ammoQ said:
MS fanboy
Even Microsoft's paid "technical evangelists" are not as obnoxious as the average freetard (sorry - Linux advocate).
I know people who dumped Windows for Linux too. Most of them gave up and switched back after 2-3 months (others stuck it out for up to a year before finally giving up). On the other hand, I'm going to go out a limb and wager that the cheapskates who bought cheap Linux computers and installed Windows XP on them haven't even thought about going back to Linux.
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@Aaron said:
I know people who dumped Windows for Linux too. Most of them gave up and switched back after 2-3 months (others stuck it out for up to a year before finally giving up).
And I'd bet it's because "it wasn't Windows."
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@anthetos said:
And I'd bet it's because "it wasn't Windows."
I like how you seem to think that is a valid argument.
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@Aaron said:
I know people who dumped Windows for Linux too. Most of them gave up and switched back after 2-3 months (others stuck it out for up to a year before finally giving up). On the other hand, I'm going to go out a limb and wager that the cheapskates who bought cheap Linux computers and installed Windows XP on them haven't even thought about going back to Linux.
And I know plenty of people who dumped Windows for Linux (myself included) and never looked back. The ones who went back typically were the ones who just could not seem to do without MS Office or could not live without their video games. I would imagine that the ones who put Windows XP on the Linux computers never even bothered to try Linux out for a while, thus, never would have any thought to go back to Linux.So, what was your point?
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@anthetos said:
And I'd bet it's because "it wasn't Windows."
I like how you seem to think that is a valid argument.
What isn't a valid argument?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Kazan said:
I seriously couldn't care less about market share beyond the fact that some people here feel the need to cut the numbers by orders of magnitude
Bullshit. Here's a report for the last 24 months: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=11&qpdt=1&qpct=4&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=90&qpnp=25# They gather stats on 160 million unique visitors per month and have several mainstream sites like NYTimes, WSJ and TheStreet. So even optimistically Linux only holds a 0.8% market share of average-to-heavy Internet users. This neglects all of the Mac and Windows users who surf the web very little, which does artificially skew the numbers for Linux a bit higher. So 0.5% certainly was correct.
go take a statistics class you troll.
Hint: there is a thing called sampling bias
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@WeatherGod said:
The ones who went back typically were the ones who just could not seem to do without MS Office or could not live without their video games.
What kind of a sick freak gives up video games to switch operating systems?
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@Welbog said:
Now you see just how powerful the brainwashing is in this Linux cult...@WeatherGod said:
The ones who went back typically were the ones who just could not seem to do without MS Office or could not live without their video games.
What kind of a sick freak gives up video games to switch operating systems?
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@Welbog said:
This sick freak... (although, I will admit, I do miss playing the Command&Conquer games, but I had to grow up at some point...)@WeatherGod said:
The ones who went back typically were the ones who just could not seem to do without MS Office or could not live without their video games.
What kind of a sick freak gives up video games to switch operating systems?
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@bstorer said:
Now you see just how powerful the brainwashing is in this Linux cult...
Try the Cool-Aid... it is GPL'd :-P
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@Welbog said:
@WeatherGod said:
The ones who went back typically were the ones who just could not seem to do without MS Office or could not live without their video games.
What kind of a sick freak gives up video games to switch operating systems?none... a great great many games that don't have linux ports run just fine under Wine 1.x
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@WeatherGod said:
but I had to grow up at some point...
No, you don't. See, that's what being an adult means: you get to define what it means to be an adult. The fact that you see a need to "grow up" or out of something means that your mind has been wiped of creativity and ingenuity. You are a broken shell of a man, swaying with the whims of the wind.
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@Kazan said:
What would you say is biased about it? The link I provided earlier placed it 1.3%, this puts it at .8%. Where do you think Linux stands on the desktop, and why are the percentages I just listed wrong? Seriously, I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you to put forth some justification for what you believe.go take a statistics class you troll.
Hint: there is a thing called sampling bias
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@Kazan said:
none... a great great many games that don't have linux ports run just fine under Wine 1.x
I haven't tried any of my old games since 1.0 came out. I will have to see how some of my old games fare. I have played some of my old games pre-1.0 (Myst 3: Exile, in particular), but mostly as a distraction from my research. Honestly, I rather read a good book than play video games.
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@bstorer said:
What would you say is biased about it? The link I provided earlier placed it 1.3%, this puts it at .8%. Where do you think Linux stands on the desktop, and why are the percentages I just listed wrong? Seriously, I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you to put forth some justification for what you believe.
I think he's saying that Linux nerds are less likely to read major news sites than typical people, so there's a bias away from Linux. Linux nerds would tend to get their news from sites like Slashdot, Fark and whatnot. I see this report saying as much about Linux trends as you would see a similar report from Slashdot logs speaking for Windows users. It's a very specific sample that doesn't well support the Linux demographic.That said, I think it's probably the best possible web trends report, since there are no sites other than Google that everyone visits on a regular basis. Hey, why doesn't Google tell us its usage statistics?
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Why can't we all just (dual boot and) get along?
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@Welbog said:
I think he's saying that Linux nerds are less likely to read major news sites than typical people, so there's a bias away from Linux.
Why would you possibly think that? Besides, you're wasting your time trying to rationalize Kazan's post. He's just a fucking retard who lashes out with useless FUD instead of actual information.
@Welbog said:
Linux nerds would tend to get their news from sites like Slashdot, Fark and whatnot.
These sites don't give actualy world news, dude. And Fark in no way is biased towards Linux, believe me. Even Slashdot is only about 20% Linux. Yeah, seriously. Believe me, there are a number of reports you can buy for a few thousand dollars that show very detailed stats about web usage trends. These tend to be captured by ISPs and other providers who are able to reliably classify info flowing through. And still this only counts heavy 'net users. It's goddamn obvious that Windows uses are more likely to not use the Internet than Linux users which skews the numbers (slightly) in Linux's favor.
@Welbog said:
Hey, why doesn't Google tell us its usage statistics?
Because they are worth money, obviously. Not only are these numbers that every web-based company is after, but if Yahoo or MS knew more info about Google's current market they could better focus their efforts. If you believe Linux penetration is over 1% you are goddamn delusional. I really can't see it being over 0.5%.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Welbog said:
That's what I meant from my "Do no evil" tag. I was being facetious, though I do find it surprising that Slashdot is only 20% Linux. What is the other 80% doing? Isn't the point of Slashdot for people to give each other pats on the back for sticking it to the man by running Linux?Hey, why doesn't Google tell us its usage statistics?
Because they are worth money, obviously.
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@Welbog said:
I was being facetious, though I do find it surprising that Slashdot is only 20% Linux. What is the other 80% doing? Isn't the point of Slashdot for people to give each other pats on the back for sticking it to the man by running Linux?
It's like white suburban teenagers who listen to violent, sexually-explicit hip-hop and rap. They're just trying to act cool while still being complete douchebags.
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Linux market share passes 4% for first time; macOS dominance declines
Report: Linux was on 6.34 percent of computers last month if you count ChromeOS.
I'd wager that Android and ios are a bigger part of the general computing pie than desktops at this stage. Should probably pivot to reporting about that.
Despite this growth, we, of course, remain far from any sort of Year of the Linux Desktop, where Linux is the dominant desktop OS. There's plenty of debate over why; Linux founder Linus Torvalds, for example, has suggested that a lack of a standardized desktop that goes across all Linux distros has held back Linux adoption on desktop.
Debian comes with five options in the installer. If I didn't know that gnome would fit what I needed I would have been in no man's land.
I think Linus also made a crack that Steam machines would probably become the bigger part of the desktop market. I'm inclined to beleive him.
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@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Linux market share passes 4% for first time; macOS dominance declines
Report: Linux was on 6.34 percent of computers last month if you count ChromeOS.
I'd wager that Android and ios are a bigger part of the general computing pie than desktops at this stage. Should probably pivot to reporting about that.
Despite this growth, we, of course, remain far from any sort of Year of the Linux Desktop, where Linux is the dominant desktop OS. There's plenty of debate over why; Linux founder Linus Torvalds, for example, has suggested that a lack of a standardized desktop that goes across all Linux distros has held back Linux adoption on desktop.
Debian comes with five options in the installer. If I didn't know that gnome would fit what I needed I would have been in no man's land.
I think Linus also made a crack that Steam machines would probably become the bigger part of the desktop market. I'm inclined to beleive him.
On the Steam statistics, Steam Deck already overtook all the other Linux distros. Once/if they release SteamOS 3 or later as a general install that people can just use, it'll be in a good position to be the go to version of linux for gaming. And it's not too bad for other stuff, just a tad weird about how it does things.
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@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
If I didn't know that gnome would fit what I needed I would have been in no man's land.
Better than being stuck with gnome.
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@boomzilla said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
If I didn't know that gnome would fit what I needed I would have been in no man's land.
Better than being stuck with gnome.
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@DogsB If you are on Debian the answer is xfce. Opinions vary, but I have used that configuration on my three linux desktop boxen to great success for more than 15 years.
Anyway thank you for the Ars link. Very informative. What do you make of the recent reduced popularity of "OS X"? Separately, again a WTF, does not know that the current branding is "macOS"?
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@Thief said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough
things people believed at 2008
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@sockpuppet7 even then that was very naive.
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Antarctic Base Seeks Penguin Counter
The UK Antarctic Heritage Trust is looking for five people to count penguins and "sorting mail at the world’s southernmost post office."
Probably find more penguins than desktop Linux users.
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@DogsB looks around the room I count two
penguinsdesktop Linux users in this group of 20. I could bring it to 20 by force, but I amevilkind. For now.
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@Atazhaia said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB looks around the room I count two
penguinsdesktop Linux users in this group of 20. I could bring it to 20 by force, but I amevilkind. For now.Forgive them for they know not what they do.
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@DogsB LFS users always generated the weirdest and least-actionable issues.
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@Thief said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough.
Would that it went anywhere...
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@OzPeter said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Aaron said:
Yes, we know - because you're a tool.
Go back to /.
Funnily enough just yesterday I was thinking that a bunch of people here couldn't cope in a moderation based forum like /., and they are only on TDWTF because of the lack of moderation.Oh boy!
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@Tsaukpaetra Oh, boy; replies to posts from 15+ years ago!
