Team of developers need new monitors (need advice)
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We have a bunch of garbage sitting on our desk. Some users are using laptops (windows) some have desktops. Some are advanced and have 1 HDMI port and VGA while most have VGA and then they use their laptop screen as their second monitor.
I am looking to update 5 of these systems.
Basic requirements are they need to be 27 inch and turn vertically.
Some will need HMDI to VGA splitters so i many need a recommendation on what is good here and because we have laptops how this will actually work out (I mean these have very basic graphics cards/chips), do i need to be concerned about performace or even failure? and what can I do about it without updating the laptop/desktop? Sorry I am just hardware challenged when it comes to graphics cards and splitting monitors and creating a useful environment.
Any help would be massively appreciated.
Thanks!
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@Frank VGA can't drive a 27" monitor with decent resolution. You need to make the digital plunge. The one you should have made 7-8 years ago when DVI became common.
If the systems have USB3, you could buy a docking station, I can recommend this model:
http://www.diamondmm.com/ds3900-diamond-ultra-dock-dual-video-usb-docking-station.html
And have the docking station handle the interface to the monitors.
But computers with VGA probably also don't have USB3.
EDIT: actually my laptop doesn't either. It's running 2 1080p monitors off USB2. Huh.
So if you have USB2 on those machines, which is more likely, this is a good option.
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You can get 27" monitors with both HDMI and VGA connectors. Here's one that can also rotate to portrait orientation.
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@blakeyrat I appreciate the help, but in this environment we are assigned equipment. Some of which came from prior developers, and used until unusable. While we try to keep things modern, its not determined by us.
So with that said is it not do-able for 27s?
Some of us use 22 in monitors and for example on my set up I have a VGA port and an HDMI port. The HDMI port has a HDMI to VGA adapter so I can use both of these VGA monitors on my laptop (running windows 7 with your basic office hardware config set up circa 2011)
:/
Others only have the one VGA port which will need a splitter. A one to one HDMI to VGA adapter to the laptop doesn't seem like a big deal, but when I am faced with splitting I am essential distributing a resouce (the graphics chip) I worry...
The desktop machines are your basic mini boxes, these have 2 VGAs I saw one with 2 VGA and one HDMI but that is an outlier.
So there is some more info for you or anoyone who is reading this.
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@Dragnslcr thank you...I do have a predilection for ASUS technology. So I will mark these down and potential targets. Price point is good as well.
thanks!
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
VGA can't drive a 27" monitor with decent resolution.
I'm running 1920x1200 over VGA to a Dell U2412M 24" right now, and the image is every bit as clean as it used to be via DVI-D from the other PC I used to use with this screen. Given how little it's possible to pick this screen up for, it's really nice (and it rotates).
That said, I would be surprised to be able to get similarly good results over VGA at 2560x1440. Physics does have to win at some point.
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
The one you should have made 7-8 years ago when DVI became common.
And now, he should probably go ahead and jump to (mini) DisplayPort, instead of sticking with DVI
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I would use nothing but Dell Ultrasharp line if your budget allows.
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@JazzyJosh said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
DisplayPort
huh? Is this like some helper technology/hardware? And can you recommend something? and is it affordable?
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I appreciate the help, but in this environment we are assigned equipment. Some of which came from prior developers, and used until unusable.
Tell management "it can't drive the monitors we want to use". Boom. Now it's unusable. Go buy some new hardware.
@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
So with that said is it not do-able for 27s?
It's about the number of pixels, not the physical size of the screen.
But any 27" monitor you buy now is going to be at least 1080p. And that's out-of-spec for VGA. (I won't say it won't work, people used to run 1600x1200 monitors on VGA-- and that's not a LOT fewer than 1080p's pixels-- but it's way out of the VGA's spec.)
The problem you have: any 22" monitor you buy will also be 1080p. So simply down-sizing the monitor is not an option. I'm not even sure you can buy monitors with less than 1080p resolution now, even the (physically) smallest ones.
You need to either modernize the computer (and, seriously, I haven't even seen a VGA cable in like 5 years), or off-load the video rendering to a USB2 docking station like the one I linked. But even in that case, your antiquated computers might not be able to handle it. When push comes to shove, the GPU in those computers needs to store all those textures, and it they were built with dual-VGA, they probably don't have enough GPU power to pull it off.
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I haven't even seen a VGA cable in like 5 years
New VGA cables perform a hell of a lot better than they did 5 years ago. Yes, 1600x1200 is well past what VGA was originally specified for, but I know from personal experience that running 1920x1200 over the four-foot VGA cable supplied with my U2412M works just fine.
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@russ0519 Yep, picked up some refurb U2415's and they are working great. Well packed. Couldn't have even told you they were refurbs unless someone pointed it out. Be aware though you'd only be getting a 90 day warranty, which might not be acceptable for business.
Refurbished & Overstock Laptops, PCs, Monitors: Dell Outlet | Dell USA | Dell USA
Refurbished laptops, desktop gaming computers, monitors, docks & servers on the cheap from Dell Outlet. READY TO SHIP laptops for sale. Up to 30% savings.
Looks like they have a 70% off offer for this 24" 16:9 monitor for call in only, no idea about it though.
25% off all outlet monitors currently, but the best I've seen is 35% off.
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@flabdablet Maybe; but you have to remember that the fact that these computers were built with ONLY VGA (not DVI, not HDMI) dates them back to a time when GPUs couldn't handle 3x1080p monitors.
If you have a computer built last year with like a gtx780 or something, and it works fine with VGA, great! But these computers ain't that. They're probably like Intel 2000 or 3000 GPUs.
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I wouldn't recommend anything coarser than 2560x1440 on a 27" screen, and if 1920x1200 is enough for you then I wouldn't be ruling out using 24".
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@Frank It's analogous to HDMI. You can daisy-chain monitors if you're using DisplayPort 1.2, but I don't think that's possible if you have an adapter in front of it.
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@blakeyrat My conundrum: I want to get the same monitor for everyone but not everyone is on a level playing field technology-wise. I may talk to someone about the really old stuff. But we are talking about maybe two 'newer' laptops (maybe). Again, I have limitations from more than one direction.
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@flabdablet Thank you...I will scope out 24" options as well.
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@blakeyrat The machine I'm currently driving this screen with was built in 2009, and has Intel embedded graphics. It's nothing new or fancy by any stretch.
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@blakeyrat "the GPU probably can't handle 3x1080p monitors" is a completely different argument from what you originally said, which was "VGA can't handle 1080p". And he didn't say they want 3 displays anyway; the most he mentioned was 1 built-in + 1 external.
@flabdablet is correct: VGA works just fine for 1080p, but if he's wanting to go even bigger then VGA's probably not going to be sufficient.
@Frank, why do you need an HDMI to VGA splitter? Just get monitors that support both HDMI and VGA.
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@JazzyJosh ...these are great...I like that is has many adapters DP HDMI VGA USB 3 even. This is opening up some options.
Thank you!
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@flabdablet Maybe; but you have to remember that the fact that these computers were built with ONLY VGA (not DVI, not HDMI) dates them back to a time when GPUs couldn't handle 3x1080p monitors.
If you have a computer built last year with like a gtx780 or something, and it works fine with VGA, great! But these computers ain't that. They're probably like Intel 2000 or 3000 GPUs.
When I was building my rig with 3x monitors, I found out that most video cards didn't support it. Even if you plugged one into vga, one HDMI and one DVI, only 2 of the monitors would work, as the video cards had only 2 timing sources (which means they could only drive 2 monitors).
I think the case is different once you have DP, but either way you would need to make sure that 3 monitors are supported if you're going that route.
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@anotherusername We need a dual monitor developer set up for web/sql development where IDE developer tools are on one side and the browsers with output is on the other. We also have debug output enabed pouring down the screen so we want the abilty to turn monitors sideways so we can minimize scrolling.
the desktops have DVI and VGA
The laptops (three variations) have:
laptop 1: 1 HDMI, 1 VGA
laptop 2 (with dock): 1 DVI, 1 VGA, 1 DP
laptop 3: 1 VGA, 1 USB3
and i think we are maxing at 1920 x 1080 some can do better but that is my target upper limit.
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
VGA port which will need a splitter
This won't work: VGA was never meant to host more than one screen. Best you can do with a single port is duplicate the output to two displays, but duplication is probably not what you're looking for.
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
huh? Is this like some helper technology/hardware? And can you recommend something? and is it affordable?
It's the D-shaped port on all modern monitors and laptops that you don't have a cord for and neither does BestBuy. It's capable of daisy chaining monitors to impressive limits, but since no one has the cord, no one has ever done this.
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
laptop 3: 1 VGA, 1 USB3
I don't understand how laptop 3 exists.
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
laptop 3: 1 VGA, 1 USB3
I don't understand how laptop 3 exists.
In between worlds where laptops that had only VGA ports had at best USB 2.0 ports, and the world where laptops with HDMI ports had at minimum USB 3.0
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@Tsaukpaetra How much do monitors cost in Narnia?
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@Tsaukpaetra How much do monitors cost in Narnia?
Unavailable, use enchanted mirrors instead. Prices vary between $currency and $lifeEntity.
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At WtfCorp we very successfully use (contraband, natch) USB to DVI doodads to make our shitty laptops drive more than one external screen.
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@flabdablet said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
U2412M
I have the 23'' variant (U2312HM). It's a really great monitor for the price and I can highly recommend it. I don't know whether it's still sold, though.
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USB to HDMI adapter. You can add a third monitor. Everyone at work has one of those.
I have my laptop monitor, a monitor plugged into the HDMI port of the laptop, and another plugged into the usb to HDMI adapter.
About once a month the Display Link Adapter service farts itself and needs to be restarted. Otherwise, no issues.
You can buy them from walmart. So I assume they're very very common. Buy one and try it out on all of your work machines. If it works, order multiple.
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@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
won't say it won't work, people used to run 1600x1200 monitors on VGA-- and that's not a LOT fewer than 1080p's pixels
I used to have a monitor like that, and it couldn't quite handle VGA: if you used DVI, it was fine, but if you used VGA, the picture shimmied constantly. It was like staring into Cthulhu's eyes or something.
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@anotherusername said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
Just get monitors that support both HDMI and VGA.
HDMI->VGA *adapters* (and the reverse, and the DVI equivalents) are only $3 or so anyway, if necessary.
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@asdf said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I have the 23'' variant (U2312HM).
Are these things better than the normal run-of-the-mill Dells? Because the ones we have at work suck. At home I have a sweet Asus that was probably cheaper, larger, has more ports, has (mediocre) speakers, and nise smooth lines, and is fairly thin, compared to the work Dells that were probably designed in Soviet Russia.
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@FrostCat uh, not quite. HDMI is digital. VGA is analog. You can't just "adapt" one to the other, you have to convert the signal, and you can buy them but they're more than $3. The cheap HDMI to VGA converters are around $10. Unless you have some other information to share?
Also, those converters won't work if the HDMI source has DRM enabled, like when you're playing a Blu-ray disk.
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@anotherusername said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
Also, those converters won't work if the HDMI source has DRM enabled, like when you're playing a Blu-ray disk.
Unless you've used certain HDMI splitters before the VGA adapters, which defeat the protection (but you didn't get that from me) .
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@anotherusername said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
The cheap HDMI to VGA converters are around $10.
Guess I was thinking of DVI-HDMI. Irregardless, it's cheaper than buying a new monitor.
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Btw, I remember that using multiple monitor of different resolution will lead to poor graphics performance in WinXP. Is it still the case in Win10?
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@cheong said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
Btw, I remember that using multiple monitor of different resolution will lead to poor graphics performance in WinXP. Is it still the case in Win10?
No, but have fun with different DPI settings between monitors!
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I will scope out 24" options as well.
Make sure you actually eyeball whatever gets onto your shortlist.
Some monitor manufacturers (e.g. Asus and HP) use really nice panels but then put shitty electronics behind them that don't let you turn off various kinds of "enhancement" designed to make movies look crisper. The results, when used as dev monitors mainly displaying text, are truly ugly.
Others, like Samsung, have really irritating and intrusive OSD popups that obscure the first few seconds of video when switching to a new source or format, which is totally shitful when you're trying to track down driver issues.
Dell's Ultrasharp line has been consistently excellent for nearly twenty years now. Excellent panels married to competent electronics and their cases, stands and mounts are good too. Some of their newer stuff has really narrow bezels, which is good for multi-head setups.
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@Frank said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
maxing at 1920 x 1080 some can do better but that is my target upper limit
1920x1200 is a better monitor format than 1920x1080. Any video source that maxes out at 1920x1080 will drive a 1920x1200 monitor with letterboxing that isn't terribad. Many video sources that do claim to max out at 1920x1080 will actually drive 1920x1200 native if they see the monitor report that capability. And for dev work, having the extra 120 vertical pixels is better than not having them.
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@FrostCat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
won't say it won't work, people used to run 1600x1200 monitors on VGA-- and that's not a LOT fewer than 1080p's pixels
I used to have a monitor like that, and it couldn't quite handle VGA: if you used DVI, it was fine, but if you used VGA, the picture shimmied constantly. It was like staring into Cthulhu's eyes or something.
Guess I lucked out... I had a 17" CRT that did 1600x1200 - VGA only. That sucker was NICE. Except it weighted a ton and required a very deep desk.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@cheong said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
Btw, I remember that using multiple monitor of different resolution will lead to poor graphics performance in WinXP. Is it still the case in Win10?
No, but have fun with different DPI settings between monitors!
And the mouse moves funny between them. Or won't move because it bumped into the area below where the other monitor is.
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@Weng said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
USB to DVI doodads to make our shitty laptops drive more than one external screen
If those are USB3 they're generally fine. USB2 is not quick enough for high frame rates at high resolutions; running 1280x720 over USB2 already yields annoying amounts of lag for interactive work and makes movies miserable, and higher is obviously worse.
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@FrostCat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@blakeyrat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
won't say it won't work, people used to run 1600x1200 monitors on VGA-- and that's not a LOT fewer than 1080p's pixels
I used to have a monitor like that, and it couldn't quite handle VGA: if you used DVI, it was fine, but if you used VGA, the picture shimmied constantly. It was like staring into Cthulhu's eyes or something.
I've seen that issue fixed by replacing the VGA cable with one not made ten years ago. I've also seen it fixed by using the monitor's OSD menu to adjust the phase of the video signal sampling clock. Crappy VGA cables make fiddling with the clock phase mostly pointless, by muddying the signal with lowpass filtering and reflections; fed with a better cable, most monitors do a good enough job of locking onto hsync and pixel-edge transitions to sample the signal in a way that avoids Cthulhu shimmer.
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@flabdablet I guess our cheapshit 24" monitors aren't good enough to matter. I don't get lag on mine (1280x720), and I DEFINITELY don't have USB3 on the laptop at all.
Movies? Who has time for that shit!
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@flabdablet said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I've seen that issue fixed by replacing the VGA cable with one not made ten years ago.
I tried that just a few years (about 3) ago before I finally got rid of the monitor. It didn't help.
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@FrostCat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
@asdf said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I have the 23'' variant (U2312HM).
Are these things better than the normal run-of-the-mill Dells? Because the ones we have at work suck.
Dell uses three kinds of panels at three different price points. The rock bottom line beloved by bean counters uses TN panels, which suck donkey balls. The mid-price Ultrasharp range, which includes the now-superseded U2412M, uses IPS panels which are really nice to work with in normal office lighting but have noticeable backlight bleed when viewed in the dark. Higher-price Ultrasharp models use better IPS panels that look good in the dark as well.
Dell is one of the few manufacturers offering high-performance panels with an anti-glare coating, too; most of the others have a high-gloss finish, which looks tremendous given careful ambient lighting design but suffers badly without it.
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@FrostCat said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
Are these things better than the normal run-of-the-mill Dells? Because the ones we have at work suck.
In what way do your monitors suck? The colors are definitely great, as is the viewing angle (as you might expect from an IPS panel).
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@dcon said in Team of developers need new monitors (need advice):
I had a 17" CRT that did 1600x1200 - VGA only. That sucker was NICE. Except it weighted a ton and required a very deep desk.
The PC in my bedroom is currently running 1600x1200@75Hz VGA into an LG Flatron EZ T910B 19" CRT monitor that I acquired for $0. It's getting a long in the tooth - CRT emissivity is down a fair bit now and needs fairly brutal gamma correction, and the vertical deflection system occasionally loses its mind and stretches 5% of the picture over the whole screen like a set of opened Venetian blinds. But until the number of times per week I have to slap it upside the head to fix that becomes a real problem, I'll keep it going. The viewing area is about equivalent to a 17" flat panel, the picture is really sharp and clean, and its contrast, speed and colour rendering still craps upon most LCDs from a great height.
And yes, it does weigh a ton and I did need to build a little garage stand for it to reclaim a bit of desk space from underneath.
Edit: the highest resolution this thing is capable of is actually 2048x1536, which (amazingly) still looks sharp and clean despite VGA. Only reason I'm not using that is because the highest refresh rate it will support at that resolution is 60Hz, and 60Hz CRT frame flicker gives me the ick.
DisplayPort - Wikipedia
