🔥 Liberals need to be told that hitchhiking in Muslim countries greatly increases your chance of encounters with rapists and murderers, apparently.
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Why is selectively increasing your risk for zero reward a brave thing to do?
Why is your assumption of "zero reward" justified?
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@mott555 said:
The predominant difference is that Christianity is fairly live-and-let-live.
Now it is.
@mott555 said:
The predominant difference is that Christianity is fairly live-and-let-live.
Now it is.
The core religious teachings themselves always have been. The problem was in the past when the religion became a political entity that actually had very little to do with the religion or its teachings.
I know. But it was interpreted this way and as the Bible is pretty much dependant on interpretations, there was an obvious result.
And that interpretation is obviously wrong as shown by something literally right next to the part you quoted. You can get anything you want if you ignore context.
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Your (daughter, sister, mother, best female friend) gets raped and killed hitchhiking from Italy to the southern tip of Saudi Arabia, what's your reaction?
Why did she do that?
Inconsolable
Now, Let's go kill the mutherfucker...
But according to the statistics I've quoted, engaging into any activity with men is just plain retarded. There's a limit beyond which risk management is paranoia, and using relative ratios doesn't help it at all - let me remind you that the original argument was not about hitchhiking in general, but specifically about hitchhiking with Muslims.
Maybe that's why American's want to keep their guns, but few want more than a pistol.
Cops take 30 mins to an hour to arrive. Not fast enough to save lives unless it's a hostage situation.
It's not paranoia to be adequately prepared.
Even fucking mace would have helped. Maybe she brought mace, I don't know.
So I guess you're the kind of person that would put "only whites" in their apartment rental conditions?
Actually, I would stick to people of equal upbringing. Race doesn't matter.
but it's generally considered an achievement of civilization that we're able to be selective towards people, not groups of them.
It has nothing to do with the group of people, and everything to do with the geo-political location and the common beliefs in the surrounding area.
Take any individual out of that area, and I wouldn't suspect anything.
Take the whole country, and I'd be interested in what kind of logistics you have for handling the difference in legal systems and any associated increase in crime.
Nobody's saying you should be okay living with a crazy meth addict. But telling black people to fuck off because they might be meth addicts isn't really okay now, is it?
See, you've strawmanned the situation.
There's a stark difference between selecting a person in that area to live with you, and selecting a location in that area to live in.
No let's not. Blue balls don't give a shit that you give up on them or treat them like they're worthless just because there's a red ball among them. Human faculty is what this argument's about.
When it comes to risk management, human faculty doesn't matter. You are injecting an emotional argument into a statistically riskier situation.
In pretty much all Muslim countries, rape is considered a crime punishable by jail time. So's murder, obviously. There are problems with enforcement, but I don't get your bit about "women's rights" at all. They do have a right not to get raped.
Several have been in national news for being thrown in jail for going to the police and reporting they were raped, with the court deciding they were adulterers instead.
We often talk in America about women feeling pressured not to report rape, why do those concerns no longer apply in Muslim countries?
Why do people climb mountains? Do sports? Race cars?
I'd also call someone stupid for racing cars without a seatbelt.
Wut.
Wife submit, husband die for wife and love her like God.
Nope, only the wife is burdened.
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And that interpretation is obviously wrong as shown by something literally right next to the part you quoted. You can get anything you want if you ignore context.
You might want to tell that to, oh I don't know, the Bible thumpers in the US then.
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And that interpretation is obviously wrong as shown by something literally right next to the part you quoted. You can get anything you want if you ignore context.
Funny how with Muslims it's individuals at fault, but with Christians it is the religion.
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the Bible thumpers in the US then.
Oh I hate those guys.
Does no good.
Especially when Paul made it a point to drop his personal convictions to meet people where they are.
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When I hear evidence that shows that women hitchhiking through the Bible Belt have an extraordinarily, unusually, shockingly high chance of being raped and/or killed - as compared to the more enlightened parts of the country that have put their religious pasts behind them - then I'll concede that point.
Here, have some evidence, Red Flag News and Daily Fail style:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxUbv90lLI
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Funny how with Muslims it's individuals at fault, but with Christians it is the religion.
The point is that those books from millenia ago can be twisted to mean anything you want them to mean, merely by quoting the right passages.
Or how do you think the Church was able to whip up the crowds for the Crusades?
Uneducated people following the commands of religious leaders.
Sound familiar?
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the Bible thumpers in the US then.
Do the Bible thumpers want to change law where it is legal to stone women for reporting rape, and are they 40 million strong?
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Or how do you think the Church was able to whip up the crowds for the Crusades?
If the Crusaders showed up to kill me for being a Protestant, I'd oppose them too.
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Wasn't there (and still is, to a lesser degree) a whole lot of stuff going on in Ireland?
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Uneducated people following the commands of religious leaders.
Wait, you're saying they're more dangerous?
Would it be stupid to go frolicking among them saying you're a Protestant and we should all get along?
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in Australia he'd need the .40 to defend against man-sized venomous spiders.
A .40 can't help you. Just get in the car, man.
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She allegedly (though from what I see we only have @anotherusername's conjecture for this) got killed by a Muslim while proving Muslims are good.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that the links I posted from the BBC and the New York Times back it up. Here, have some quotes from the NYT article:
two friends, both performance artists, hatched the idea about a year ago: wearing white wedding dresses, they would hitchhike from Italy to the Balkans to the Middle East to send a message of peace and “marriage between different peoples and nations.”
...“She thought that in the world there were more positive than negative people, and that it was right to be trusting,”
...The artists’ statement at their Web site, bridesontour.fotoup.net, says, “Hitchhiking is choosing to have faith in other human beings, and man, like a small god, rewards those who have faith in him.”
She perhaps wasn't specifically targeting Muslims in her mission of peace, but she still should've taken a healthy dose of skepticism before starting her naive journey.
Well, bring some statistics that use your prefered definition.
Oh, ok. Sure. Is Time.com a reputable enough source?
The CDC's Rape Numbers Are Misleading
Men reported being “made to penetrate” at virtually the same rates as women reported rape
...when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).
In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.
...We must either start treating sexual assault as a gender-neutral issue or stop using the CDC’s inflated statistics.
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Just get in the car, man.
On a different note.
Walking Dead has taught me that a car is the second best zombie-apocalypse defense. Tank being best.
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No, what I'm saying is:
You can make almost any*) of the "established" religions into religions of tolerance, peace and equality.
You can also do the opposite.
All by picking the right quotations.
*) Don't know all of them.
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Walking Dead has taught me that a car is the second best zombie-apocalypse defense.
But what if the driver is a zombie? OMG these roads are completely unsafe.
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But what if the driver is a zombie? OMG these roads are completely unsafe.
If you are a woman, and the driver is a Muslim zombie, you are especially fucked.
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You did not answer the question.
Because I fail to see its point. Sure, for her own safety she probably shouldn't have gone hitchhiking.
But she - let's say your daughter, sister, etc. - did, and she got raped and killed, and I assume your reaction would also be "well, what did she expect? She should get a Darwin award".
They do?
At the very least they do in Turkey - so it just proves your point moot in the context of this case.
Even fucking mace would have helped. Maybe she brought mace, I don't know.
So you don't know if she was prepared, but damn if she was she would've avoided it? Maybe she had a fucking AK-47 and it didn't help. Don't know.
It's not paranoia to be adequately prepared.
It's paranoia to completely dodge any remote risk.
Take any individual out of that area, and I wouldn't suspect anything.
Countries are comprised of individuals. Something you conservatives (see, I can fling umbrella terms too!) don't get at all.
There's a stark difference between selecting a person in that area to live with you, and selecting a location in that area to live in.
What about two people? Three? Would you be okay with a whole skyscraper of $MINORITY people near you?
There's no difference between several select individuals and a crowd of them. You can get raped on West End, you can live peacefully in a black ghetto. In the end, it's all up to single people, each one different than the other.
When it comes to risk management, human faculty doesn't matter.
It does! This is why we don't just shoot all blacks on sight because they're this much more likely to commit crimes. It's a perfectly rational choice if you give up on thinking about people as people.
I'd also call someone stupid for racing cars without a seatbelt.
Even in a cage, it's risk and no reward, and people do it and are generally not shunned for it.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that the links I posted from the BBC and the New York Times back it up. Here, have some quotes from the NYT article:
Local media identified the suspect only by the initials MK and said he had a previous conviction for theft
Where does it say that she was killed by a Muslim?
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Would you be okay with a whole skyscraper of $MINORITY people near you?
A Møøse once bit my sister.
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A Møøse once bit my sister.
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"
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It's paranoia to completely dodge any remote risk.
It's not paranoia to dodge large risks.
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It's not paranoia to dodge large risks.
And yet here you are, risking an aneurism due to arguing with us! Hypocrite!
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So you don't know if she was prepared, but damn if she was she would've avoided it? Maybe she had a fucking AK-47 and it didn't help. Don't know.
If she prepared, this topic is pointless.
But I doubt she had an AK with a wedding dress on.
That would be funny as hell though.
It's paranoia to completely dodge any remote risk.
Yes.
But you can't seem to find the middle ground here.
Countries are comprised of individuals. Something you conservatives (see, I can fling umbrella terms too!) don't get at all.
Yeah, and when you get individuals together, they exhibit different behaviors than when they were alone.
What about two people? Three? Would you be okay with a whole skyscraper of $MINORITY people near you?
Depends on their upbringing. If every single one of those grew up in a 3rd world country under a political theocracy that uses a few verses from a religion to justify raping women, then that'd be bad.
If however, they all come from Syria and aren't ISIS, not so much.
Many of the problem causing refugees are from other locations, like Somalia.
it's risk and no reward
I don't value the level of entertainment she got from hitchhiking as much as she did.
It's ok for different people to have different risk-reward comfort levels.
My opinion is that she did something stupid by not managing the risk level appropriately.
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@mott555 said:
in Australia he'd need the .40 to defend against man-sized venomous spiders.
A .40 can't help you. Just get in the car, man.
TDEMSYR. A 40 makes everything better!
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But she - let's say your daughter, sister, etc. - did, and she got raped and killed, and I assume your reaction would also be "well, what did she expect? She should get a Darwin award".
I would be furiously angry with the people who sold her all that kool-aid about human goodness and bullshit. I would be even more furiously angry that she, someone who apparently shared a significant amount of my genetic material, actually bought it. I would be partly angry at myself for not finding some way to convey to her the information that not everyone deserves her trust, and nobody deserves it until they've earned it. That's not to say that you're rude to people; it's to say that you should take reasonable and proper precautions in your interactions with them.
I would, of course, also want whomever did the actual raping and killing to be found, justly tried and their guilt found, and then executed. As in dead, and I don't care if it's humane.
Where does it say that she was killed by a Muslim?
It happened in Turkey, where 99.8% of the population are registered as Muslim. That leaves very little chance that she wasn't, so if you're suggesting that you know otherwise, prove it.
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You can make almost any*) of the "established" religions into religions of tolerance, peace and equality.
You can also do the opposite.
All by picking the right quotations.
Yeah, but what if you look at how people are actually acting and so forth? Would you still be misleading us about the Crusades to avoid talking about stuff people are doing today?
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Yeah, but what if you look at how people are actually acting and so forth? Would you still be misleading us about the Crusades to avoid talking about stuff people are doing today?
Take the Irish civil war then. Still not completely resolved.
Or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Contemporary
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@boomzilla said:
Yeah, but what if you look at how people are actually acting and so forth? Would you still be misleading us about the Crusades to avoid talking about stuff people are doing today?
Take the Irish civil war then. Still not completely resolved.
It's not an area of history I'm terribly familiar with. Was there something about the way they practiced religion that made their culture especially unsafe for women? Aside from being at war, obviously, which isn't the point here.
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I've found that the longer a Muslim has lived in a western country, in small populations, the more progressive they become.
It's the radicalization of their kids you have to be concerned about.
In short, a set of noble principles articulated through a foreign paradigm can lead to abominations. In this case, the better principles of Western civilization are being devoured, absorbed, and regurgitated into something equally potent, though from the other end of the spectrum.
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Heh.
And to think you are the one to preach about false comparisons... nice try.
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That leaves very little chance that she wasn't, so if you're suggesting that you know otherwise, prove it.
Actually, you have to prove they're Muslim. If you're trying to say Muslims are the problem.
I'm trying to say the geo-political area is the problem.
For example.
Take a white man that's a rapist, stick them in a geo-political area of the world where it is indirectly ok to rape.
See, it doesn't matter even if the person is Muslim or not.
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And to think you are the one to preach about false comparisons... nice try.
Yeah, I'm trying to understand why you brought up things like historical Christianity. Especially the Crusades. I'm glad we can apparently agree that it was silly for you to have brought that into the discussion.
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Especially the Crusades.
Because the only way to excuse extremist Islam is to bring up the actions of hundreds year old dead Catholics.
But, it's not to be unexpected.
They excuse the actions of criminal gangs by bringing up 250 year old dead black slave owners (and the white ones too).
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Yeah, I'm trying to understand why you brought up things like historical Christianity. Especially the Crusades. I'm glad we can apparently agree that it was silly for you to have brought that into the discussion.
Y'know, I actually did explain why I brought that up. If you're so smart as you proclaim to be you'll figure it out by yourself. No more handouts for you.
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I'm not trying to say Muslims are the problem. I'm saying that Islam is the problem, and it has been the dominant force in defining and shaping the geo-political area that you say is the problem. You're right; it is the problem, but that geo-political area of the world is a problem because it's been defined and shaped by Islam and its traditional interpretations of what is acceptable treatment of women.
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Y'know, I actually did explain why I brought that up. If you're so smart as you proclaim to be you'll figure it out by yourself. No more handouts for you.
I was just wondering if there was more to your argument than post hoc ergo prompter hoc combined with tu coque. I'll stop prodding.
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For example.
Take a white man that's a rapist, stick them in a geo-political area of the world where it is indirectly ok to rape.
See, it doesn't matter even if the person is Muslim or not.
Yes, that's one man. Take a whole bunch of men and stick them into a small enough area that they become their own defining cultural norm there, and you'll find that, rather than adapting to the geo-political area where you moved them to, often they'll bring their old geo-political area of the world along with them.
Bad people perpetuate bad culture just as much as bad culture perpetuates bad people.
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This post is deleted!
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@fbmac said in 🔥 Liberals need to be told that hitchhiking in Muslim countries greatly increases your chance of encounters with rapists and murderers, apparently.:
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@fbmac Fuck you. And a big thank you to @boomzilla for the ignore feature, at least I'll only have to see each necro'd thread once.
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@asdf I am disappoint. Thought you were dragging me back to an old flame war.
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@fbmac said in 🔥 Liberals need to be told that hitchhiking in Muslim countries greatly increases your chance of encounters with rapists and murderers, apparently.:
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Behave. And not "badly".
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@boomzilla said in 🔥 Liberals need to be told that hitchhiking in Muslim countries greatly increases your chance of encounters with rapists and murderers, apparently.:
Thought you were dragging me back to an old flame war.
Nah, my job is too stressful right now, so I'm too stressed out to participate in any flamewar ATM. Another time. ;)
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@anonymous234 said in 🔥 Liberals need to be told that hitchhiking in Muslim countries greatly increases your chance of encounters with rapists and murderers, apparently.:
At least, choose some better threads at least!
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Well considering it claims that it was her motive to prove the opposite I don't think it isn't correct to say the opposite.
Islam like most religions have a poor opinion of women. However in Arabic countries Women are literally rated as 50% of man.
The title is perfectly fine. If she did similar through Europe the outcome would have been very different.
Even muslim friends of mine that are quite friendly have a problem with Gay people and they are far more sexist than most English born blokes in my own experience (which I know isn't statistically accurate).
Considering that recently:
Dutch woman held in Qatar after rape claim to be deported
The 22-year-old was given a one-year suspended sentence, while man accused of attacking her was sentenced to 140 lashes
This happened and it was another islamic country, it is more evidence that they are more worried about following the fucking book than doing what is just.
