Forum Moderator WTF



  • @tster said:

    The current crew just doesn't satisfy me as much.

    That's not what you said last night, you bastard!  *cries to self*

     

    Seriously, I appreciate your contribution.  I actually would like to see you post more as I joined just as you were winding down and you seemed quite reasonable, smart and interesting.



  • @ammoQ said:

    I miss them too, but they left us long before the rise of MPS, morbuswilters, bstorer etc.

    You hear that, guys?  I had a rise!  The only things that have rises are like empires and stuff.  I feel freakin' EPIC now!



  • @PJH said:

    Next you'll be wanting to demote AmmoQ for some perceived transgression.

    We built a religion around the guy and that's not the kind of thing you do with just any forum moderator.  Also, if any posters were to ask for ammoQ's demotion, we'd go Roman on their asses:  stealing their wives, burning down their houses and sowing the ground with salt so that nothing could ever grow there again.



  • @Physics Phil said:

    AmmoQ does a good job of keeping this place almost sane, and I assume Alex or Jake reads the sidebar every few days to look for potential Best of the Sidebar articles, and I assume Alex's attention has been dawn to this thread by now, so I assume will hear some sort of official decision on this soon.

    Agreed.  Also, I posted this to pre-empt Mikey and get this out in front of the community before he decided to start targeting forum members.

     

    @Physics Phil said:

    The day that happens will be the day that the site has been taken over by Jim Bastard sock puppets.

    I'm glad that everyone seems to notice what kind of jackass that guy is.  It seemed there were only a few of us flaming him at most times, but then again we had to watch his rap video and you guys didn't.   I'm not joking there, he has rap videos on Youtube.  Yes, he's white.  Yes, he sings and dances about as horribly as you would think.

     

    @Physics Phil said:

    I notice that Michael Thingumy has dissapeared. I he is too busy watching the IRC channel to cause us grief here. (Or he was defeated by Community Server.)

    Even if this was nearly incomprehensible, it made me laugh my ass off.  Thanks for posting!



  • @derula said:

    Then there's the other end. I'm really afraid of posting here most of the times, and I've not submitted many posts I wrote, because I considered it lame, not funny, already pointed out or similar
    Amen, brother.  I do the same.  I think of something clever, but I can't get the words right and I figure someone else will do it better.  OR I realize it will just be a waste of everyone's time and make me look stupid. 

    I'm glad others are reading their posts before the submit, too.

    Everything I just said does not apply when I WTFAYBBA all over your ass, though.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    You hear that, guys?  I had a rise!
     

    Of course, ammoQ could be implying you're full of yeast, which causes rises of various sorts.

     

    *runs and hides* 



  • @MarcB said:

    Of course, ammoQ could be implying you're full of yeast, which causes rises of various sorts.

     

    *runs and hides* 

    Well, I am full of beer and beer is full of yeast, so your hypothesis holds true.. in theory.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I can't tell you how many threads I've seen MPS post something to the effect of "you're the only one trolling here".  Almost always if I re-read the entire thread, it is very clear to me that MPS had merely aggressively disagreed with someone's statement and the person who accused him of trolling was the first one to engage in a personal attack.
    You have time to read entire threads twice?  You are REALLY bored at work.  I've been there, but truthfully, it was because they weren't paying me enough to give a shit 40 hours a week.



  • I agree that a lot of the problems won't be solved by moderation, but rather a community-wide pact. From my observations, the only "destructive" things morbius and MPS do (because I've seen their names pop up more than any others) is respond to posts that are obviously trolling--for instance, the hilarious "change" threads. While a world where it's unacceptable to respond to the likes of Spectate Swamp or God forbid, TubeRodent (never thought I'd hear that name again) is a world in which I don't want to live, some things would be better if they were ignored, like the obvious VB/Microsoft/Linux trolling. After all, this is TDWTF. We've heard it all before. It should take a truly interesting/exceptional troll to be worth our time. Or, as in Swamp's case, a sufficiently advanced trolling algorithm.

     Yes, I will contend that Swamp is nothing more than an elaborate trolling AI. No human in the world, with the exception of Charles Manson, is that incoherent and insane.

    As I said before, the worst thing that happens is the constant thread derailment, but that will only be fixed if users would be more inclined to ignoring posts that they perceive to be a breach of etiquette, rather than flaming said posts.



  • @durendal.mk3 said:

    From my observations, the only "destructive" things morbius and MPS do (because I've seen their names pop up more than any others) is respond to posts that are obviously trolling--for instance, the hilarious "change" threads.

     

    while I agree with LOTS of stuff MPS says, and I usually even agree with him at the start of the flaming, he takes it way to far.  He also has a habit of having to have the last word.  And the problem with the internet is that if you get multiple people hat just have to get the last word in, you get threads that don't ever end and generally get nastier and nastier.  Check out "Cafeteria Drone WTF"for a prime example of this.  MPS starts out decent and defending cashiers.  Then someone flame baits him and the argument rages.  Then MPS gets into super-MPS mode and he starts flaming everything the guy says even as the other guy is attempting to diffuse the conversation.



  • This is the biggest post I've ever made.

    This is also a thread like I've never seen in my 10 years of oneline-ness. I find it unique that suddenly we're all exchanging well-expressed views in a clear and open manner, on such a massive multi-page scale. It delights me, and I respect a lot of you a great deal more after having read this thread. It's good to know people's motives for once, rather than just their actions which can be truly misleading, as is the case with, for example, MPS's metatrolling.

    @fatdog said:

    Here are my .14cents (keep the change)
     

    ... I... I can't figure this out... I'm going to call my manager and a coworker

    @fatdog said:

    Bringing the police will fuck this shit up, and push tdwtf away from the "anarchist utopia" it should be. 

    Hear hear, but any community needs some form of a controller to ensure the defeat of true harbingers of chaos & destruction. There's no way around that. Even the Amish have their elders to decide on certain matters.

    @BeenThere said:

    the Spectate thread really did keep that loonie pretty much confined to a single thread - a real community service act imo.

    I reproduce this observation, and am grateful.

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    did I ever flame you, [dlikthen]?

    Verbally abusive to the point of being uncivilised, a most definite YES. :)
    Flame? Hmmmm. Grey/White hat flaming, perhaps.

    @BeenThere said:

    Example:  Mr. Lonely net hopper goes to a forum and posts some personally biased thread about a platform filled with bad information.  If you politely correct them, they actually think you want to discuss the topic.  This is a very dangerous miscommunication and invites Mr Lonely to feel rewarded for his retarded post.  You have to crank up the heat, to make it clear you have no interest in a happy little discussion with them - you just don't want to allow their completely messed up facts go unchallanged and potentially infect others.  Next time, this guy has to think a bit before posting because he remembers the exchange unpleasantly.  I hate to say it, but there are a lot of people out there that will not respond to simple 'corrections' and need to be flamed a bit to get it.

    While your motives appear sound (as in, not wanting their shit to spread itself), I fully disagree with your methods for handling undesirable social elements and improbable||offensive ideas, you warmonger.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I'm bothered that you include Lysis with me and MPS, as Lysis was a very blatant troll.  I also think it very unfair to include dlikhten, as he has almost never engaged in the sometimes-unpopular moderation that MPS and myself have.

    I concur. I've come to look upon MW and MPS as high-class trolls, as a valid mode of communication, rather than that insufferable git Lysis.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Who is MorbiusWilters?  What the fuck should you care if he likes your WTF or not?

    MW is an active member of this forum with the capability to confidently drive a point home through the use of much but fluff-less text. This auto-gives his views on things some weight, and some people are influenced. It is part of the mechanics of how people interactions work.

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Perhaps I, on occasion, go too far in my responses, but I don't feel anything remotely close to hatred for any of you.  I think people too often read more malice into my posts than I intend.  Nothing on these forums ever really riles me up; I just enjoy a good debate.

    And now we hold hands, sing a song, and then it's time for the group hug.

    /undue sarcasm ;)

    @upsidedowncreature said:

    I've made ballsups when posting/quoting, been picked up by other users (yeah, you MPS) and I've made sure I haven't done it again. 

    We all need a good boot to the sack every now and then.

    @derula said:

    And to train my English a bit. I hope it isn't too terrible (you can't tell such things by yourself, sadly).

    I noticen't a thing about your words that do not say "native speaker". It's all good.

    @tster said:

    I fell in love with the forum of AmmoQ, RichardNixon, CPound, Dhromed, masklinn, CodeWhisperer. The current crew just doesn't satisfy me as much.

    Aw shucks.

    Well I feel the same way, really. I miss Masklinn and CW a bit. And Asuffield stopped posting, who behaved like an unfeeling bitch with a sense of humour, but probably knew his shit better than most of us combined. I stayed here mostly because of the high-level tech chat going on, from which I could learn a good deal. That has subsided a bit, which is a crying shame.

    @Physics Phil said:

    (Or he was defeated by Community Server.)

    Michael 0
    CS 1,000

    CS WINS

    [quote user="Physics Phil"]I assume Alex or Jake reads the sidebar every few days to look for potential Best of the Sidebar articles, and I assume Alex's attention has been dawn to this thread by now, so I assume will hear some sort of official decision on this soon.[/quote]

    I fear that the Alex-concept will fade into a god-like faith, because I haven't seen Him post in quite some time -- though perhaps I'm blind. 

    @morbiuswilters said:

    When I first started posting here I mistook MPS for a troll

    Baha!
    I am so amused. 

    @morbiuswilters said:

    We built a religion around the guy and that's not the kind of thing you do with just any forum moderator.

    FTFY.

    ...I think 

    @tster said:

    [MPS] also has a habit of having to have the last word.

    Such truth in such conciseness.

    Would MPS care to respond? 



  • I stayed here mostly because of the high-level tech chat going on, from which I could learn a good deal. That has subsided a bit, which is a crying shame.

    Oh, and just to reiterate,

    - no more moderation than is already present
    - MORE TECHSP33K PLX.


  • BINNED

    @dhromed said:

    And Asuffield stopped posting, who behaved like an unfeeling bitch with a sense of humour, but probably knew his shit better than most of us combined. I stayed here mostly because of the high-level tech chat going on, from which I could learn a good deal. That has subsided a bit, which is a crying shame.

     

    I remember that guy. He seemed very knowledgable in almost everything and had some of the most insightful posts here ever. (I think the whiny bitch left because he couldn't cope with MFD ;) ). Learning a bit while reading about tech stuff was what initially drew me here.

     

    On topic: I think some of the regulars had far better chances convincing others that they're indeed wrong IF they didn't call everyone a fucking moron immediately.



  • @topspin said:

    I think some of the regulars had far better chances convincing others that they're indeed wrong IF they didn't call everyone a fucking moron immediately.
     

    This is patently wrong.

    No one is ever called a moron immediately. If they were, the caller would be flamed to death in the thread.

    There are special occasions when the poster is exhibiting MASSIVE signs of stupidity though...



  • @dhromed said:

     Well
    I feel the same way, really. I miss Masklinn and CW a bit. And
    Asuffield stopped posting, who behaved like an unfeeling bitch with a
    sense of humour, but probably knew his shit better than most of us
    combined. I stayed here mostly because of the high-level tech chat
    going on, from which I could learn a good deal. That has subsided a
    bit, which is a crying shame.

    Oh my god, I completely forgot to include him.  He was one of my favorite forum members.  In fact, he was in a lot of ways similar to MPS.  WIth Assufield around, you couldn't post some bullshit about something you don't know because he would call you on it immediately.   



  • I've lurked here a long time.  Usually by the time I get to the forum, everything that I've wanted to say has already been said.  I like how the boards are now.  More moderation, especially if it is with a heavy hand, would make this place enterprisey.



  • @tster said:

    With Assufield around, you couldn't post some bullshit about something you don't know because he would call you on it immediately.

    I believe the pattern was such:

    A: thing, thing, thing.
    Someone else: No, you're wrong, blah blah
    A: ARGUMENT TO RIVAL A KATANA
    Someone else: *spasm convulsion* my leg my leg he took off my leg *blood everywhere*

    But the pharaos of ancient times also shot fire from their eyes, so I may have exaggerated a little. 



  • @dhromed said:

    @BeenThere said:

    Example:  Mr. Lonely net hopper goes to a forum and posts some personally biased thread about a platform filled with bad information.  If you politely correct them, they actually think you want to discuss the topic.  This is a very dangerous miscommunication and invites Mr Lonely to feel rewarded for his retarded post.  You have to crank up the heat, to make it clear you have no interest in a happy little discussion with them - you just don't want to allow their completely messed up facts go unchallanged and potentially infect others.  Next time, this guy has to think a bit before posting because he remembers the exchange unpleasantly.  I hate to say it, but there are a lot of people out there that will not respond to simple 'corrections' and need to be flamed a bit to get it.

    While your motives appear sound (as in, not wanting their shit to spread itself), I fully disagree with your methods for handling undesirable social elements and improbable||offensive ideas, you warmonger.

     

    Perhaps I didn't convey the "flame level scale" and when to use it - I don't mean if someone posts a mugworthy sidebar, to "BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!" or anything.  Its all about a response fitting the post.  If I had a party, and someone was about to smoke pot in my home, I would flame them because of the sheer "unacceptable" level, and want to convey that very clearly.  If they had no idea and asked me first, I'd just clearly say "no" but I would consider failure to even ask to be a hefty transgression and something they should remember in the future for all house parties they attend.

    This forum is not "my house" and as such, I would never "flame" to that level, I just mean to say if someone posts say, "windows sucks" and no basis for it, they probably will do it again unless they feel like they "looked stupid" and there is a negative impact associated with the action.  You may still disgree with those methods, which is fair, but I have found postitive/negative reinforcement to be at times needed for some people.  I also don't suggest "making someone cry" etc, it's only an internet forum and people shouldn't make a big deal about anything that gets replied back to them. 
    Also, I've seen even people are 'anti-flame' make some pretty heated flame-filled replies, but that really just is a way to vent and communicate a level of frustration/displeasure towards the post they are replying to.  If you take flames in that context, they really don't work you up that much.  



  • @BeenThere said:

    If I had a party, and someone was about to smoke pot in my home, I would flame them because of the sheer "unacceptable" level, and want to convey that very clearly.

    And this is why you have to speak about parties soley in hypothetical terms. 



  • @tster said:

    @dhromed said:

     Well I feel the same way, really. I miss Masklinn and CW a bit. And Asuffield stopped posting, who behaved like an unfeeling bitch with a sense of humour, but probably knew his shit better than most of us combined. I stayed here mostly because of the high-level tech chat going on, from which I could learn a good deal. That has subsided a bit, which is a crying shame.

    Oh my god, I completely forgot to include him.  He was one of my favorite forum members.  In fact, he was in a lot of ways similar to MPS.  WIth Assufield around, you couldn't post some bullshit about something you don't know because he would call you on it immediately.   

     

    I pretty much concur with everything both you guys have said so far in this thread. Definitely the feel of the forums have changed these days, and while I was never a prolific poster (and pretty useless at that anyway ;) ) - I was a long time lurker and quite enjoyed many of the posts.

    I think the floodgates opened around the time of the first SpectateSwamp thread. From what used to be a daily read is now once in a blue moon due to the increased noise.




  • I say we start a petition to bring back CPound. And TubeRodent because, as racist and prickish he was, he was still funny and I loved reading his blog.

    ... okay, maybe not TubeRodent. But certainly CPound; I miss that guy. I wonder if the hairy, pierced, tattooed beasts finally got him, and that's why he stopped posting.

    <StrongBad>Oh, CPound!  I pine for you!</StrongBad>



  • @Quinnum said:

    From what used to be a daily read is now once in a blue moon due to the increased noise.
    I don't think it's really fair to just say that and walk away. What is the increased noise? Perhaps you're afraid to say more for fear of being flamed, but if any thread is the perfect place to discuss it, it's this one. Too many people are prone to saying, "Oh, it was so much better in the good old days!", but they're looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.



  • @bstorer said:

    Perhaps you're afraid to say more for fear of being flamed,
     

    I don't know why anyone would be afraid, I have yet to see anyone in this thread (that hasn't posted garbage) get flamed yet. I know I don't intend to. It is an open area for discussion and thoughts.



  • @bstorer said:

    @Quinnum said:
    From what used to be a daily read is now once in a blue moon due to the increased noise.
    I don't think it's really fair to just say that and walk away. What is the increased noise? Perhaps you're afraid to say more for fear of being flamed, but if any thread is the perfect place to discuss it, it's this one. Too many people are prone to saying, "Oh, it was so much better in the good old days!", but they're looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.

    I distinctly remember a time where the forums were widely seen as containing more intelligent discussion than the comments sections of the front-page posts, and I remember agreeing with that. I think this is now reversed. Now, maybe it's actually that the comments there have gotten more intelligent, rather than posts here getting less intelligent, but that is at least an impartial (i.e. based on how the past saw itself rather than the present looking at the past with nostalgia) measure of how "now" is different from "then".



  • I go studying for the weekend, and this is what I miss?

    Well, I will add my two cents.  First, and foremost, I really want to thank everyone for keeping this thread civilized.  I think this issue needed to be discussed openly and I think we all have a better perspective of each other now.  As for other threads, I don't mind if the thread goes completely off-topic (like the gun control thread) and we usually do end up learning a lot.  I also don't mind a little bit of an agressive responding - after all, it does drive home the point.  I do think that those who do post agressively should be careful to not spread your flames to others who have not spouted B.S.  I believe that this is what happened for a while in the the gun control thread. Also, for the sake who may not follow such agressive threads like the gun control one, try not to let your flame-fest spill over to other threads.  I am sure many readers would take comments like "Belgians are pussies" outside of the gun control thread in the wrong sense, and be completely confused and/or angered.

    So, my vote is also to not increase the level of moderation (although, maybe increase the number of moderators).  I also completely agree that there should be a sticky thread explaining the use of the Forum editor and other guidelines.  May I suggest one entry for the FAQ:

    Q: Aaaaah! I posted a wall of text! What should I do?

    A: Get a real browser.

     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @WeatherGod said:

    I think this issue needed to be discussed openly

    No it doesn't. It crops up on every moderated forum. The results are the same, or similar.

    @WeatherGod said:

    <what I don't like>

    @WeatherGod said:

    So, my vote is also to not increase the level of moderation

    Marvellous!! With spelling mistakes you can call upon!!

    @WeatherGod said:

    (although, maybe increase the number of moderators)

    No - wait - you want to be one of them? Not even a subtle hint you want to be one? Say it ain't so!!One!

     @WeatherGod said:

    I also completely agree that there should be a sticky thread explaining the use of the Forum editor and other guidelines.  May I suggest one entry for the FAQ:

    If, and I do mean *if* you should become a moderator on 'popular opinion' or 'a general vote' (neither will happen) this will not get you my vote.

    Anyway, you forgot 'double delete' in your manifesto.



  • @PJH said:

    No it doesn't. It crops up on every moderated forum. The results are the same, or similar.
     

    Feel free to avoid this thread then. The rest of us feel it is useful.

    @PJH said:

    Marvellous!! With spelling mistakes you can call upon!!

    Are you drunk?

    @PJH said:

    No - wait - you want to be one of them? Not even a subtle hint you want to be one? Say it ain't so!!One!

    I don't see how he is implying that in any way, shape or form.

     

    Well, this thread WAS going pretty civil.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @PJH said:

    No it doesn't. It crops up on every moderated forum. The results are the same, or similar.
     

    Feel free to avoid this thread then. The rest of us feel it is useful.

    @PJH said:

    Marvellous!! With spelling mistakes you can call upon!!

    Are you drunk?

    @PJH said:

    No - wait - you want to be one of them? Not even a subtle hint you want to be one? Say it ain't so!!One!

    I don't see how he is implying that in any way, shape or form.

     

    Well, this thread WAS going pretty civil.

    Yeah, I think this is just flame-bait here.  I am certainly not asking to become a moderator (how can I when I am gone for days at a time?). 



  • @WeatherGod said:

    Yeah, I think this is just flame-bait here.  I am certainly not asking to become a moderator (how can I when I am gone for days at a time?).

    I'm with pstorer on this one: the best moderators are the ones who are too lazy to moderate.  Unless, like, not moderating would get in the way of TV of dinner.  pstorer's unnending committment to laziness is the reason he is the only op on #TDWTFMafia and why it has been a bucolic paradise the entire time.

     

    Also, I hate to say it but PJH is definitely being a bit of an asshole.



  • @bstorer said:

    @Quinnum said:
    From what used to be a daily read is now once in a blue moon due to the increased noise.
    I don't think it's really fair to just say that and walk away. What is the increased noise? Perhaps you're afraid to say more for fear of being flamed, but if any thread is the perfect place to discuss it, it's this one. Too many people are prone to saying, "Oh, it was so much better in the good old days!", but they're looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.
     

    Yeah, those damn glasses ;)

    But seriously, for me it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it, and of course those lolcat type posts that start them in the first place.

    While it is easy to point the finger at MPS and the gang as contributers to this condition (and even though I enjoyed half-heartedly baiting him a couple of times, but actually I don't mind him), I understand their motivations for what they are doing and approve on general principles. I'm just not sure of the actual implementation though. On one hand, Ignoring a single lolcat post is easier than having to ignore the 20 or so flames that follow it - but on the other hand if we don't try to reprimand those posters, soon it will be nothing but lolcats.

    Unfortunately, every public forum seems to go through a certain lifecycle, and this place is in the stage where the 'great unwashed' seem to have discovered it, slowly driving the regulars away as the subject matter also become more general and not niche like it used to be.

     



  • @Quinnum said:

    ...those lolcat type posts...a single lolcat post...nothing but lolcats...




  • @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 



  • @tster said:

    @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 


    Totally agreed. I'm relatively new to the forums- drawn in by the lure of the swamp- but the sheer unrelenting wall of petty etiquette-themed flaming has made me almost entirely stop reading Sidebar over the last few weeks. It's not JUST the etiquette stuff, either- people are getting badly burned for posting things not deemed worthy by the regulars, and I don't believe that's always a good thing.

    As an example, this. Personally, I feel an "error" message appearing onscreen for an error two weeks ago in a version of an app that was no longer running IS a WTF, although several other people disagree. That's fine... but I certainly think people (MPS in particular) went waaaay too far in tearing the guy a new arsehole in response to this.



  • @tster said:

    @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 

    I think it would help to have a real consensus and something like a sticky "pleae read first" post of forum guidelines.  Then we could simply point newcomers or whatever towards that post.  Without that, it looks more like a few people have decided on some forum rules and are policing the forum that way.  It's understandable that people would be put off by that -- it's the same way someone might respond if I got together with three of my neighbors and declared that everyone who drove on our section of the public street should honk three times.  Then we waved down cars and yelled at them for not following the rules.  



  • @tster said:

    @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 

    In this case, tster, it's suggested to use "QFT" to save on Alex's bandwidth.  Thanks. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @tster said:

    @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 

    In this case, tster, it's suggested to use "QFT" to save on Alex's bandwidth.  Thanks. 

    But "quoted for truth" is longer, and thereby increases the signal-to-noise ratio more than "QFT", provided that you consider the comment to be signal in the first place.



  • @rc_pinchey said:

    That's fine... but I certainly think people (MPS in particular) went waaaay too far in tearing the guy a new arsehole in response to this.
     

    It started out normally enough. It is hardly my fault if the guy cannot admit it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @tster said:

    @Quinnum said:

    it's due to the increased "flaming about posting etiquette" to "actual content" ratio that is killing it

    quoted for truth. 

    In this case, tster, it's suggested to use "QFT" to save on Alex's bandwidth.  Thanks. 

     

    QFH (Quoted for Hilarity) 



  • @tster said:

    QFH (Quoted for Hilarity) 
     

    See, now you went and fucked it up even more.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @rc_pinchey said:

    That's fine... but I certainly think people (MPS in particular) went waaaay too far in tearing the guy a new arsehole in response to this.
     

    It started out normally enough. It is hardly my fault if the guy cannot admit it.

     

    That thread is a perfect example of you having to have the last word.  Plus you seem amazed that people get defensive when you sarcastically attack them (often with personal insults).  Then when they respond you are all too eager to start a back and forth that simply reiterates the same points or makes no further argument.  

    I know it's difficult, but try and look at it objectively:

    Flame wars and flaming has become extremely common on these forums.  You are one of the most vocal parties in every flame war.  Do you see my point?  You need to let some things lie and walk away.  And for god sake, when someone comes in and tries to defuse the situation, don't attack them because their damn post count is low.  Yeah, we all know that you have over 3,000 posts, get over it.  If someone with 4 posts feels like he's part of the forum and wants to use the word "we" in reference to this community, then that is great!  But I find it unacceptable that you would attack him because his post count it too low.



  • @tster said:

    That thread is a perfect example of you having to have the last word
     

    Yes. If people are going to continue to spew false information and FUD, then I will keep going. Sorry you chose to not like that. But I am certainly not the only one to argue something to death.

    @tster said:

    You are one of the most vocal parties in every flame war. 

    Yeah, it doesn't help I have retards who follow me to a thread where I make a reference to proper quoting (in the first 3 or 4 posts), and they flame me (10-20 posts later) and start a flamewar. Example: You, Capnsteve, operagost, faxmachinen, dude, and others. You guys start flamewars, and then when I defend myself it is suddenly an MPS flamewar. 

    Maybe it is time to look in the mirror?I can handle it as much as anyone else, but you are increasing that noise ratio everyone else refers to.

    @tster said:

    And for god sake, when someone comes in and tries to defuse the situation, don't attack them because their damn post count is low.  Yeah, we all know that you have over 3,000 posts, get over it.

    I have never used my post count as a point in an argument. Sorry. You need to grow up if my post count bothers you.

    @tster said:

    But I find it unacceptable that you would attack him because his post count it too low.

    If I attack someone with a low post count, I would be attacking him for not having a clue what he is talking about (have you SEEN the posts by the newbies lately?), not for his post count.

     

    Really, you have spent an awful lot of time trolling me lately, you are only increasing the noise. Do us all a favor and either PM me, join the IRC channel, or just let it go.



  • @shadowman said:

    I think it would help to have a real consensus and something like a sticky "pleae read first" post of forum guidelines.  Then we could simply point newcomers or whatever towards that post.  Without that, it looks more like a few people have decided on some forum rules and are policing the forum that way.  It's understandable that people would be put off by that -- it's the same way someone might respond if I got together with three of my neighbors and declared that everyone who drove on our section of the public street should honk three times.  Then we waved down cars and yelled at them for not following the rules.  

    I'd really like to second that. Personally, I find the fights over etiquette unnerving. Good structure and grammar is of course important, but it's nothing to derail a thread for, repeatedly. I can't see how a post that doesn't contain anything apart from "Don't quote the OP, Motherfucker" is in any way contributing to the discussion.
    But that may be a matter of opinion. What REALLY annoys me is that MPS and fellows are enforcing rules that they seem completely arbitrary and then expect everyone to know them.
    I'm sorry, but I've not yet seen a single forum before where people had issues about quoting the first post of a thread - or any issues about quoting at all. The same goes for not quoting non-OP posts. I don't understand what sense those rules should make. I believe we are all adult humans here and we can form coherent thoughts. I don't see why we need rules that would make an XML parser blushabout what is just an everyday forum tool.

    Also, I've not yet seen anyone else except MPS and bstorer actually caring about those rules. How many people in this community are really interested in strict quoting rules, to take this example?

    So, yeah, rules are a good thing, but please develop them with the rest of the forum and put them into a proper thread for everyone to read.



  • @PSWorx said:

    I'd really like to second that. Personally, I find the fights over etiquette unnerving. Good structure and grammar is of course important, but it's nothing to derail a thread for, repeatedly. I can't see how a post that doesn't contain anything apart from "Don't quote the OP, Motherfucker" is in any way contributing to the discussion.
    But that may be a matter of opinion. What REALLY annoys me is that MPS and fellows are enforcing rules that they seem completely arbitrary and then expect everyone to know them.
    I'm sorry, but I've not yet seen a single forum before where people had issues about quoting the first post of a thread - or any issues about quoting at all. The same goes for not quoting non-OP posts. I don't understand what sense those rules should make. I believe we are all adult humans here and we can form coherent thoughts. I don't see why we need rules that would make an XML parser blushabout what is just an everyday forum tool.

    Also, I've not yet seen anyone else except MPS and bstorer actually caring about those rules. How many people in this community are really interested in strict quoting rules, to take this example?

    So, yeah, rules are a good thing, but please develop them with the rest of the forum and put them into a proper thread for everyone to read.

     

    a) Enforcing them? I cannot enforce anything. TypicalIy I remind the person. And I don't often 'flame' them at all unless they decide to act stupid about it.

    b) Other people who agree? There have been several different people already in this thread and on IRC who agree with this self moderation.

    c) Why? Because it makes the threads more readable. There are a lot of people reading these threads in many ways (flat view, threaded view, emails). And it is good to have 'best practices' for posting to keep everyone's enjoyment up. No one has requested anything difficult from anyone. If it really is too difficult to select the text you are replying to and hit 'Quote' then I am sorry, but please don't whine about it when you are reminded to consider other people besides yourself.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    It started out normally enough. It is hardly my fault if the guy cannot admit it.

    We had a difference of opinion over the correctness of design. Several other people also agreed with my point of view.

    But I found it really funny that in the end when I had totally given up posting with any thought to maturity, that you just had to keep coming back over and over again to reply to my posts. I would hazard a guess that if I had continued on to just filling my posts with totally random text you would still have replied.

    If you are really concerned with reigning in flame wars, then don't reply at all. Silence sounds a death knell to any troll.



  • @OzPeter said:

    But I found it really funny that in the end when I had totally given up posting with any thought to maturity, that you just had to keep coming back over and over again to reply to my posts.
     

    You didn't stop posting. You just started trolling. I kept responding to other people who tried to support you and also failed.

    @OzPeter said:

    I would hazard a guess that if I had continued on to just filling my posts with totally random text you would still have replied.

    Interesting, considering I am the one who stopped replying to you.

    @OzPeter said:

    Silence sounds a death knell to any troll.

    You were the only one trolling in that thread. You brought personal insults, and received them.

     

    I am sorry if you cannot come to terms with this, but it is hardly a mature thing to do to start cross posting your gripes on other threads when you lose an argument.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    I am sorry if you cannot come to terms with this, but it is hardly a mature thing to do to start cross posting your gripes on other threads when you lose an argument.

    Gee .. I had the idea that this thread was all about discussing the progression of threads and/or trolling and whether moderation is a good or bad thing. You yourself have lambasted people for not providing explicit examples. If anything this thread is the place to discuss behaviour encountered in other threads.

    BTW your recollection of your posting history is very very wrong and cannot be backed up by even a cursory examination of that thread.



  • @OzPeter said:

    If anything this thread is the place to discuss behaviour encountered in other threads.
     

    Your post is clear in it's intentions.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    or just let it go

    Quoted for Irony.  

    The problem with letting it go is that I did do that for a long time.  But I've gotten fed up with reading back and forths between you and half the people on the forum.  This thread is now becoming a perfect example of you inciting a flame war.  I point to the fact that you used someone's low post count in a personal attack on them:

     @MasterPlanSoftware said:


    WTF is this 'we'? Are you French? Or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

    You just came to this forum, and you think that you are suddenly going to...

    and you come back and personally attack me:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

     You need to grow up if...

     Anyways, I haven't been following you and flaming you all the time.  I've also posted in agreement with you in some threads.  I can't help it if half the threads I open I see personal insults coming from you.



  • Let me first say that OzPeter obviously got mad and went into crazy flame war mode.  But I'm not going to call him a troll because that would imply that he was looking to start a flame war, which he obviously wasn't at the beginning. 

     Anyways, this assertion:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:

    But I found it really funny that in the end when I had totally given up posting with any thought to maturity, that you just had to keep coming back over and over again to reply to my posts.
     

    You didn't stop posting. You just started trolling. I kept responding to other people who tried to support you and also failed.

    @OzPeter said:

    I would hazard a guess that if I had continued on to just filling my posts with totally random text you would still have replied.

    Interesting, considering I am the one who stopped replying to you.

     doesn't seem to hold...

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:
    blah blah blah random trolling
    Do you have a point here, or can we get back to how wrong you are?

     @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:
    Or maybe your're not up to that level??

    Honestly, you are the one bent out of shape... 

    I am not even insulting you. 

     

    Oh, and welcome to the internet.

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:
    An embellishment is a class of lie.

    So either you are calling me a liar or you are a douche .. your choice.

    You got it then. You can be a liar.
     

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:
    summed up your post for all the other people reading this thread
    See, that is what you fail to comprehend. Everyone can see what I am
    saying... you really don't know what you are talking about it. You are
    the only who cannot see it.
     

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @OzPeter said:
    Are you Master P aren't related?
    Hey morbius, look, it is another 4chan troll!
     

     And don't tell me to go to the IRC channel to tell you that you are flaming.  IRC is blocked at work and I don't really like the chat medium.  That's why I go to forums, where people have time to respond with facts and thought rather than just off emotion and memory.



  • @tster said:

    Quoted for Irony.  
     

    I agree, you really can't seem to let it go and stop attacking me in public. The fact that I am defending myself doesn't make me the troll or anything else you might want to believe.

    @tster said:

    I point to the fact that you used someone's low post count in a personal attack on them:
     

    That is not related to his post count. It is related to how new he is, and how he thinks he is going to change the thread by posting an argument after the flames had burnt out.

    I was the one being personally attacked. And I defended myself properly. At no time did I mention my post count like you claim.

    @tster said:

    I haven't been following you and flaming you all the time.

    All day so far...

    @tster said:

    I've also posted in agreement with you in some threads. 

    This means nothing. Right is right, wrong is wrong. I would agree with Spectate if he said something correct/sane.
    @tster said:

    I can't help it if half the threads I open I see personal insults coming from you.

    Bullshit.

     


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